If Chestnut and Sorrel are Genetically Identical, then

[StarRidgeAcres]

Flaxen manes and some have chestnut (same as coat color) manes? And why do they look different? To me sorrel is a much brighter, lighter, orangier color and chestnut looks darker, blacker. Is this the same type of thing that causes some palominos to be so white and some so golden? But their manes are always white aren't they?

I'm so confused about colors!

 

[High Meadow Miniatures]

Flaxen manes and some have chestnut (same as coat color) manes? And why do they look different? To me sorrel is a much brighter, lighter, orangier color and chestnut looks darker, blacker. Is this the same type of thing that causes some palominos to be so white and some so golden? But their manes are always white aren't they?

I'm so confused about colors!

Hello there! First of all- there is no such color as "sorrel" All red horses with red manes & tails are called "Chestnts" There are

Flaxen Chestnuts- This is the lightest chestnut, it has a flaxen mane & tail

Standerd Chestnuts- This is a mediam chestnut, The "Redest" color

Liver Chestnuts- This is the darkest chestnut, It has a flaxen mane & tail

Mostly, Cowboys call ALL red horses (quarter horses) sorrels, while the red Thoughbreds are called Chestnut

:

Palomino horse's manes & tails are ALWAYS white, There are-

Golden palominos- This is the most golden color

Smutty or dappled palominos- This color looks like dirty gold

Light palominos- This color looks white from a distance

Hope this helps!! :bgrin

 

[LowriseMinis]

I've always used 'sorrel' to denote the red horses that usually have flaxen manes and tails, plus lighter blonde on their bellies and legs (think Belgian coloration). Everything else to me is just some shade of chestnut.

http://www.equinecolor.com/color.html is my favorite color resource...check out the horses under "Chestnut" then go look at the red horses under "Mealy/Pangare" ...that's the difference between chestnut and sorrel to me, though I don't know if it is for anyone else!

 

[lvponies]

I've always believed that chesnut and sorrel were interchangeble terms for a reddish colored horse (that's not bay) regardless of the lightness or darkness of the reddish shade. Growing up riding english, all reddish colored horses were chestnuts. It wasn't until I grew up and rode western that I first heard sorrel being used to describe the same reddish colored horses I knew as chestnut. I've always thought of it as an english vs western kind of thing, not different shades or whether or not they have a flaxen mane/tail or not.

 

[Matt73]

Chestnut and sorrel are exactly the same. Western folk tend to call them sorrel and English call them chestnut. That's the only difference.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

There is no such thing as a "Flaxen Chestnut"

Genetically all Chestnuts are the same- they are Red.

Flaxen is another thing altogether.

Traditionally I think Sorrel is a term used by westerners??

It started as a French word- came across to East Anglia where it became attached to the Suffolk Punch and emigrated to the States form there- it could also have come direct with French settles, of course.

But, basically, Chestnut is Chestnut there is no genetic difference between any of the shades and nothing that we are yet aware of that governs them.

The one, possible, exception may turn out to be Liver Chestnut- but the term is applied so vaguely that isolating true "Liver" is hard.

Flaxen affects the mane and tail, BTW not the body.

Pangaré affects body colour, as do many other things, such as Sooty and Sabino.

Edited to add

Palominos do not always have white manes and tails.

"Palomino" the registered colour, they do , but palominos the description, no, they can and do have darker manes and tails.

Go to

http://www.equinecolor.com/forum/

to find out more.

 

[tagalong]

Liver Chestnuts- This is the darkest chestnut, It has a flaxen mane & tail

No.... A liver chestnut need not have a flaxen mane and tail... as in...

The difference between sorrel and chestnut - as in Quarter Horses.... is that sorrel has a reddish or copper tint.... and chestnut has a brown tint.

So think of sorrel.....

...as copper or red.... in assorted shades.

And chestnut as milk chocolate or coffee with cream...or caramel... or liver - no red tint. Also in assorted shades.

But with many breeds - all solid "brown/red" horses are chestnuts. Thoroughbreds, Warmbloods etc.

Anyhoo - the equine colour website explains things very well...

:

Belgians of that ^^^^ type of colouring are often referred to as "blond".... confused yet?

:

 

[Shari]

There are many shades of Chestnut. And as said Chestnut/sorrel is the same..is just an Eastern/Western thing.

Maggie is a Medium Liver Chestnut and she doesn't have a blonde mane and tail. Her mane and tail does have some lighter hairs(not blonde) on her mane and forelock...but mostly a lot of very dark near blk hair too.

Know lot s of folks find Chestnut boring..but with all the shades and variations, I do not find them boring at all.

 

[Matt73]

Again, Sorrel and Chesnut is the exact same thing. Just two different words used to describe the same thing. Think of a "musk melon" and a "cantelope". The same melon, with two different names

Liver Chestnuts- This is the darkest chestnut, It has a flaxen mane & tail

No.... A liver chestnut need not have a flaxen mane and tail... as in...

The difference between sorrel and chestnut - as in Quarter Horses.... is that sorrel has a reddish or copper tint.... and chestnut has a brown tint.

So think of sorrel.....

...as copper or red.... in assorted shades.

And chestnut as milk chocolate or coffee with cream...or caramel... or liver - no red tint. Also in assorted shades.

Again...Sorrel and Chestnut are the exact same thing. Just different words used to describe it; like "muskmelon" and "cantelope". The same, exact thing.

But with many breeds - all solid "brown/red" horses are chestnuts. Thoroughbreds, Warmbloods etc.

Anyhoo - the equine colour website explains things very well...

:

Belgians of that ^^^^ type of colouring are often referred to as "blond".... confused yet?

:

 

[Minimor]

Chestnuts and sorrels are all the same, just depends on who is describing the horse. In Morgans you will hardly ever hear anyone refer to sorrel, it's chestnut to most Morgan people. On my website you will see no sorrels--they are chestnuts. There are red chestnuts, there are dark chestnuts, there are flaxen chestnuts. I loathe the description of "sorrel" and will not use it. I will not be impressed if I send in a registration application for a chestnut foal & because of photos the registry deems that foal to be "sorrel".

 

[RENMACMINIS]

LOL.. I love this discussion.. I have 2 horses one is a QH and 1 is a solid Paint they are the exact same color except the QH has 4 white socks and a blaze and the Paint only has a star and one hind sock. The QH is registered as a Chestnut and the Paint is registered as a Sorrel. . So I think it all depends on who you are talking to and who is marking the little boxes on the reg. applications. oo yeah and what breed of horses they raise/have.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Thanks for all the responses! :aktion033:

I'm very new to the color thing, but find it very fascinating indeed. Here is why I was/am confused:

This is my very first mini. She is registered as sorrel with a flaxen mane and tail:

Here is the same horse clipped in early spring (excuse the horrible picture):

If I saw just this pic and didn't know better I'd think the horse was a palomino.

Here is another horse of mine that is registered as sorrell with a flaxen mane and tail:

Granted, when she's unclipped, she's much redder.

Then, here is Corona who is registered as Chesnut with a mixed mane and tail:

BTW, both Corona and Star (previous pic) have TONS of white hairs throughout their coats.

And finally, this mare is registered as chestnut with chestnut mane and tail:

Can you understand why to a newbie this would be confusing??

:

:

So, all these horses are red-based and none are black-based right?

 

[PaintNminis]

haha I have 2 Sorrel Minis (It's on there Papers)

and one of them when Clipped looks like a Palomino and the Other is the Same Color as her winter Coat.

I like to term them as Just Red

:

Since it does get rather Confusing :new_shocked:

 

[HGFarm]

In ranch country here, since the beginning of time (yes, I am old, lol) the sorrels are the lighter, or 'regular' red, the chestnuts, or liver chestnuts are the darker deeper red. If the boss told you to go saddle up the sorrel and use him for the day, and you saddled the chestnut instead, you would be laughed off the job (but probably fired first). Terms differentiate between the two shades of red. Just like a smutty buckskin does not look like a regular buckskin. A 'bay' does not look like a 'brown'.

Some breed registries have different rules about what they call them and what they accept.

 

[sdmini]

Growing up with QH's sorrels were light red, Chestnuts were dark. I now know the words are inerchangable so go ahead call 'em sorrel or chestnut it doesn't matter to me. However even though I know better I still will refer to the lighter horses sorrel and the darker ones chestnut.

I do however believe there are horses that are sorrel with flaxen manes and tail and not just a "silver bay".

Sire (out of a black sire and brown mare)

Dam: (out of blue roan sire and sorrel mare)

Foal:

I grabbed this photo late one night so it is much darker than it should be. When this filly was born I scratched my head as she looked palomino. I looked quick to find a better photo showing her flaxen mane and tail but I must have those on disc. (whoops I lied found another with her by a chestnut :bgrin )

And a word too the wise when your naming your foals as they might try to live up to their name. The "foal" in the picture is Demolition Diva and the pretty scar she totes on her left leg is due to getting out, running down the road and trying to demolish a barb wire fence. :no:

 

[Katiean]

Well, in Standardbreds they are chestnut or sorrel. In the description on the papers they are registered as a chestnut if the main and tail are red, a sorrel if the main and tail are flaxen. I owned and raced them years ago. I don't know how things have changed since then since they did not DNA then. But to me that is how I would describe the two colors (and to me they are two colors). I hace also heard Mini horse people say their horse is a chocolate palamino. AMHA says there is no such color. They told me they were silver dapple. So I guess you just call them as "You" see them"

: and go with the flow.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The middles horse looks Silver- the top horse could be Silver.

Chestnut and Sorrel mean the same colour so I would not worry about it- I would get the other row tested, though.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Its actually a QH breed thing. The same horse would be chestnut in english disciplines, and sorrel if its a QH. The AQHA does not recignize chestnut as a color. My "liver chestnut" stallion (the one in my avatar) is registered brown rather than deep chestnut, as it would in another organization.

Its rare to have a flaxen tail with a liver body... usually that's breed specific like the Rocky Mountian Horses.

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

Just wanted to share a picture of my saddlebred who was a liver chestnut - no flaxen mane or tail.

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

I have coat color genetics books that never use the word chestnut, only sorrel. Ok, let's confuse things even further. There's the ruano sorrel and then there's the tostado sorrel. Anyone want to guess what they are? I know, but I won't tell yet. Who wants to play? :lol: