Important Environmental Issues

[mininik]

New area in Alaska arctic opened to drilling:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10819895/

"Research" Whaler collides with Greenpeace ship:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200601/s1543643.htm

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/

http://www.seashepherd.org/

http://www.sierraclub.org/

 

[shminifancier]

New area in Alaska arctic opened to drilling:

About Tme :aktion033: Should have been doiing this years ago

In 1923 the government set aside the 22 million-acre National Petroleum Reserve-Alaska for its oil and gas resources. It is located west of the Prudhoe Bay oil fields; the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, which has been at the center of a drilling dispute in Congress, is east of Prudhoe Bay.

Ya and we should have been USING this for years but noooo because of green peace :no:

 

[mininik]

:new_shocked: Isn't it about time to go wash your SUV?

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I'm sure that in 1923 the government had the best interests of the environment in mind...

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[runamuk]

:new_shocked: Isn't it about time to go wash your SUV?

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I'm sure that in 1923 the government had the best interests of the environment in mind...

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Actually the drilling and the Alaska pipeline pose far less environmental impact than the current way the oil is shipped in tankers. I for one support the pipeline especially after the valdez spill....we should not be bringing our oil in on ships when it is available here on our continent and could be brought in much more environmentally friendly manner.....

The damage caused by a potential pipeline spill would be far less than the spill in the ocean....ocean containment is very difficult at best...not to mention a pipeline spill is not very likely unless there was tampering/terrorism....which is also a possibility with tankers......we could all quit being such americans and stay on our properties and only travel by horse and that would get rid of the need for oil...... :bgrin :bgrin

yeah like that would happen :bgrin :bgrin

 

[Ashley]

I honestly dont see anything wrong with it. The isnt gonna be detramental to carribu in anyway. God for bid they will have to walk around something.

 

[justaboutgeese]

Just for information purposes, if the caribou meet an obstrucion on their migration route they just stop there. They cannot visualize a way around or through it. On that level they are as dumb as chickens. They posess no sense of reason at all. In other areas piplines have been elevated to facilitate them being able to pass under which they will do. That would work here as well, it just adds to the cost more.

 

[Ashley]

Then they are much stupider then there relative, reindeer. Reindeer are very smart. They know how to go around, over or what ever direction it takes them to get to where they wanna go.

 

[Pepipony]

Drilling is a catch 22. Need it, but sure wish we didnt.

There is such propaganda on both sides, but, if one actually watches what is being said and then what happens, you can get a clear picture.

NO drilling is environmentally safe. There are a lot of roads going in and out, its not just a 20' square patch of ground that gets ripped up. Not to mention the seismic vibrations that these WILD animals have to deal with. I have a mare who is medicated now because of all the drilling around me ( central TX) , and she is a domestic animal.

People bring up the Valdez, but then forget about how tankers are supposed to be double hulled and , suprise, arent. They dont mention all the land spills that have happened, guess its more visual to see a sea gull drowning in oil than someones hay pasture covered in well spray.

These migration routes are millenia old, the wildlife cant just look up a map and change their routes. We once thought that damming off rivers was a great idea. Till we had an epiphany that salmon actually cant crawl up the dam wall and needed that route.

Humans have an arrogant notion that we are the be all /end all of the world. We want, we take and to heck with everything else. Well, least part of that is right, we are the end all. Bet our great grand kids are going to be supremely happy with the legacy we are leaving. :no:

If anyone wants to see first hand what drilling does, I have a spare bedroom. Which happens to face the drill site that will be coming in a few months. They changed the laws, now that drill pad can be really close to the house, its not even 200 yards away ( the drill hole) the pad will be 40' off my house. And they run 24/7, so sleep is just a lovely thought. So, come stay w/me for those months and see how you feel about drilling after that. Bet you will change your thoughts and your ways.

 

[runamuk]

Drilling is a catch 22. Need it, but sure wish we didnt.

There is such propaganda on both sides, but, if one actually watches what is being said and then what happens, you can get a clear picture.

NO drilling is environmentally safe. There are a lot of roads going in and out, its not just a 20' square patch of ground that gets ripped up. Not to mention the seismic vibrations that these WILD animals have to deal with. I have a mare who is medicated now because of all the drilling around me ( central TX) , and she is a domestic animal.

People bring up the Valdez, but then forget about how tankers are supposed to be double hulled and , suprise, arent. They dont mention all the land spills that have happened, guess its more visual to see a sea gull drowning in oil than someones hay pasture covered in well spray.

These migration routes are millenia old, the wildlife cant just look up a map and change their routes. We once thought that damming off rivers was a great idea. Till we had an epiphany that salmon actually cant crawl up the dam wall and needed that route.

Humans have an arrogant notion that we are the be all /end all of the world. We want, we take and to heck with everything else. Well, least part of that is right, we are the end all. Bet our great grand kids are going to be supremely happy with the legacy we are leaving. :no:

If anyone wants to see first hand what drilling does, I have a spare bedroom. Which happens to face the drill site that will be coming in a few months. They changed the laws, now that drill pad can be really close to the house, its not even 200 yards away ( the drill hole) the pad will be 40' off my house. And they run 24/7, so sleep is just a lovely thought. So, come stay w/me for those months and see how you feel about drilling after that. Bet you will change your thoughts and your ways.

Thanks for that perspective......part of the issue is you almost never hear about land based issues..hmmmm wonder why? I do know that ocean spills are one of the biggest environmental tradgeys that can have long long lasting effects...and no most do not realize just how long that oil continues to do damage......I agree that it isn't something that is environmentally friendly period......there are much better ways to produce the energy we need that are far less damaging but the oil barons keep making sure that doesn't get let out

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I think the mentality of one of my co workers during the "gas crisis in the gulf" says it all.........he said they should put refineries in washington I mentioned that the Puget Sound is rather delicate and the seismic activity makes it not neccessarily the best place.....his reply "screw the Puget Sound and screw the environment I don't care as long as I have gas" :no: :no: :no:

 

[RENMACMINIS]

I probably shouldnt even post here.. everything we do is catch 22. We use electric, which comes from power plants which are powered by coal. Everyday there are many, many, many men who risk their lives to get that coal so that we have electicity. This is the only life these men know. This is the only thing they know how to do. Sure you say they need to get another job, one that isnt so dangerous. But that can be said about alot of jobs out there today. Someone has to do it. Just the same as people working in Mcdonalds or our Feed Stores.

So Envy shouldnt you turn off your computer to save electric, to save coal, so these men wont have to go underground and risk their lifes so you can turn on your computer and post stuff like this???

: :nono: :deadhorse2:

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Today there is a memorial service for the 12 men who lost thier lives in The Sago Mine almost 2 weeks ago. While the 13th is laying in the hospital in a coma that the doctors arent sure he is going to come out of.. Maybe we should just be thankful for what we have. And the time God gives us on this earth. Rather than worrying about things that no matter how much we complain and gripe and dont want it to happen it IS going to happen maybe not this year or next year but it will eventually.

 

[runamuk]

I probably shouldnt even post here.. everything we do is catch 22. We use electric, which comes from power plants which are powered by coal. Everyday there are many, many, many men who risk their lives to get that coal so that we have electicity. This is the only life these men know. This is the only thing they know how to do. Sure you say they need to get another job, one that isnt so dangerous. But that can be said about alot of jobs out there today. Someone has to do it. Just the same as people working in Mcdonalds or our Feed Stores.

So Envy shouldnt you turn off your computer to save electric, to save coal, so these men wont have to go underground and risk their lifes so you can turn on your computer and post stuff like this???

: :nono: :deadhorse2:

: :hypocrite:

Actually alot of the electric on the west coast is produced by hydro ...dams on rivers....so no coal mining over here.....

 

[Pepipony]

A lot of the problems we have as US citizens would be solved if the President/Senators etc on down, had to live like we do. No more salaries for life for serving one term. Put an oil/gas rig behind each of their houses. Make their retirement benefits SS and Medicare etc I know, like that will ever happen. Oh well.

Beside just the basic mess a well site brings, there is exhaust and the contamination that rain will pull off of the trucks.

At least with coal mining they have to reclaim the land. With oil/gas wells, and a lot have only a 5-10 year lifespan, they dont have to reclaim. So, we will have thousands of limestone pads here, with tanks, drill stems etc on them, forever. That is just plain wrong. When its used up, tear it out and reclaim the land.

We only hear, for the most part, what they want us to hear. Oh it may come up in local media, but thats about it. We have a well site here that has been hit by lightning twice, its about 8 miles away and we could feel the explosion.

Untill humans can control the things we want , we need to leave well enough alone.

On a side note, those that want drilling, have you taken steps to live as green as you can? Changed out light bulbs, insulated your house, gone low flow with the comodes, switched to more energy efficient appliances or even changed to a better MPG vehicle? We did, and we save about 6 tons of coal per year just by switching all the light bulbs.

 

[shminifancier]

Changed out light bulbs, insulated your house, gone low flow with the commodes, switched to more energy efficient appliances or even changed to a better MPG vehicle? We did, and we save about 6 tons of coal per year just by switching all the light bulbs, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, and, Yes...

But that still don't change the fact WE NEED more oil and opening up Alaska is Good for the USA and the Heck wit Green Peace, and the tree huggers of World, and the animals Can and Will find a way around, or oh well.....

 

[mininik]

"So Envy shouldnt you turn off your computer to save electric, to save coal, so these men wont have to go underground..." -RENMACMINIS

As someone else pointed out already, I am on the West coast and most of the energy out here comes from hydro. Anyway, I don't even own a car and I'm about to move back onto a boat again. I already use environmentally friendly products and I don't buy any CRAP that I don't need. This isn't even my computer so I won't even be using electricity to run it once I move although if you want me to turn it off now... you first.

"But that still don't change the fact WE NEED more oil and opening up Alaska is Good for the USA and the Heck wit Green Peace, and the tree huggers of World, and the animals Can and Will find a way around, or oh well....." -shminifancier

And this mentality is why I can't wait to leave the U.S.!

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[runamuk]

"So Envy shouldnt you turn off your computer to save electric, to save coal, so these men wont have to go underground..." -runamuk

As someone else pointed out already, I am on the West coast and most of the energy out here comes from hydro. Anyway, I don't even own a car and I'm about to move back onto a boat again. I already use environmentally friendly products and I don't buy any CRAP that I don't need. This isn't even my computer so I won't even be using electricity to run it once I move although if you want me to turn it off now... you first.

UMMM you got your quotes crossed :bgrin I am on the west coast and mentioned the hydro electric.....renmac made the comment about the coal :bgrin :bgrin ...bad enough getting chewed on for what I do say...do not want to take credit for someone elses statements

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[shminifancier]

And this mentality is why I can't wait to leave the U.S.!

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And the boarders are not closed anybody is free the leave if you have a hankering. Just like I moved to AZ. several years ago stayed for 10 years, and said to myself this is not what I want and came back to WI.

People move all over the globe for one reason or another.

 

[mininik]

I am soo sorry, runamuk. Darn it, I even double checked to "be sure" I was quoting the right person but failed to noticed that you had quoted RENMACMINIS post. LOL

"And the boarders are not closed anybody is free the leave if you have a hankering. ... People move all over the globe for one reason or another." -shminifancier

I know it's free to leave but it's not cheap so I'll have to wait just a bit longer.

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[Pepipony]

I wonder what percentage of Coal comes from the east vs Montana/Wyoming etc? Do those mines only feed the elect plants in their area? Hubby works for frieght rr and they have numerous coal trains a day come through going to Houston/Galveston. Even the Elect plant down the road ( 4 miles ) takes those coal trains as that coal is better and cleaner than the strip mines here.

Anyhow. We are stewards of this Earth and in our greed we are now reaping what we have sown. Global warming is just the tip. Shmini wonder how you will feel when China emerges as THE power when our bread basket dries up and we cant sustain even 1/4 of the people we have?

 

[shminifancier]

Anyhow. We are stewards of this Earth and in our greed we are now reaping what we have sown. Global warming is just the tip. Shmini wonder how you will feel when China emerges as THE power when our bread basket dries up and we cant sustain even 1/4 of the people we have?

OK The Lumber indistry..Is sooo raked by the environmental and governmental restrictions, because of the people like green peace many lumber companies have Just Gone Under....

And the the Big One of all time is it is Now Over 25 Years since a NEW nuclear Power Plant has been built...Why you ask Because of the environmentalists even though the technology is so much better and things so much safer then the days of 3 mile Island... We should not only have Solar Power going full bore, We should have Nuclear Plants being built to help with todays ever increasing population and usage of energy..And if Anwar was open 20 years ago we may not have seen the $3.00+ gal of gas now, but no because of Tree Huggers... And with Business after business having more and more restrictions being putting on them it is No Wonder why company after company is moving Off Shore~!!! There is plenty of oil around for the next 100 years, and by that time other technologies will have been invented and going in full force.. So oil wells that have been shut down in the gulf are starting to refill~! But because of pollution concerns and environmental concerns have not been started back up... And Yes we ARE in some kind of Climate change, I have NO doubt about that ..But is it because of man kind and burning fossil fuel I think not... ONE Volcano Puts MORE pollutants in the air then autos do in a years time..And Volcanoes are nature at work cooling the earths interior.. And The Ocean Warmer up Yes I believe that is also happening But Not because of man... Volcanic activity on the ocean floor hmmm yes that heats up the water...But you don't hear about things like that on places like CNN hmmmm...

And the Earth Does change climates around from time to time has happen over and over again throughout the earths long history...But of course that is reasonable thinking, and not what you would hear on the Liberal TV Networks~!!!!

 

[mininik]

Wow... a real environmental terrorist. Drill for more oil, chop down the trees, build more Nuclear Plants, screw the wildlife and keep reproducing! Any more brilliant ideas?

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