In-hand Jumping and Dressage question

[Diva's Girl]

I ride full scale School horses in dressage and sometimes jump a little if my knee feels up to it and I was wondering if I could train my little Diva to do it in-hand. I have started her in the basics of In-hand dressage like walk/trot/working walk/working trot/square stops/collecting/and switching leads but I was wondering if I teach her too much wether it would interfere with her carting? I was also interested in In-hand jumping and was wondering how you guys usually start off your jumpers and what the ground conditions you jump them are? Thank in advance! I apreshiate any and all opinions!

 

[targetsmom]

I think the in-hand training will only HELP her in the cart. I do in-hand work with Princess in her harness (or a surcingle), doing shoulder in and "leg" yields. I would love to work her up to high level moves like levade, which I think she would be capable of, but just don't have the time. But any exercises like shoulder in and leg yield should make your mini more flexible and easier to get on the bit when driving.

Princess also does in-hand jumping (see my signature, which doesn't include that she does ADS driving shows too). Someone just asked about that so you might want to search for that thread. I don't do any jumping in the winter when the ground is frozen but if you have an indoor you would be all set. After we get ours used to walking and trotting ground poles (at a young age) when they are ready to start to jump (age 3) we usually start them over a downed dead tree, which we always seem to have in our pasture. They can't duck out and they can't knock it down. Actually, they will have all jumped it already as babies!! Then we do a low cross rail to teach them to jump the center of the jump, then go from there - slowly!! Key things for us are having the horse trot (I am too old to have the horse canter) next to you and follow your lead, never getting ahead or behind and making smooth turns. If they start to rush the jumps, then the jump itself becomes a reward for trotting nice and steady. Ours all love to jump and they wait impatiently when they see the others going over the course in our back yard!

 

[RescueMini]

I do in-hand jumping with my mare and train all of my rescue horses that I foster to do the same. I start out by placing a single ground pole on the ground. I have them go over it several times. I then add several over a period of a week or more, depending on the horse, and work up to 4-6 ground poles. This starts to build up their muscles for jumping and aids in teaching them to pick up their feet. If they are ready I usually place my two standards out with a single ground pole on the ground between them. I work on having the horse stay next to me and go in the center between the jumps. After that I will start a small cross rail. Make sure that you have the ground pole at the base to aid the horse in the jump. This is where I introduce my cue to jump and eventually start to work on the horse's form by doing various jumping exersises. Once I get to that step I make sure my main focus is getting them to learn to love jumping. Raise the height slowly over a period of weeks until you get to competition height, but make sure to not over jump your horse or raise them too soon. My mare absolutely loves to jump and actually gets jealous if I jump another mini before I jump her!

 

[Diva's Girl]

Thanks so much! Diva loves to jump things when I let her and she likes doing work in dressage and the cart. I was just worried she might get signals mixed up(Even though they are pretty much the same). I live on a quiet dirt road, would it be okay to jump her on it or would I need a dragged arena? I don't want to go up to competition height as we don't have any competitions for minis here but I would like to do it for fun. She stands at 36 inches at the base of the hair and 40 inches at the withers so I was going to build up to a 24in jump(2ft). My agility dog, Bindi(She is a 17lb pug) jumps 3 1/2ft jumps so I figured 2ft should be ok for Diva but I was not sure. I don't want to hurt her on accident.

 

[RescueMini]

If the dirt road isn't rocky or super hard it should be fine, just make sure it isn't slippery. For AMHR, 24" actually is around the competition height in the hunter division. Jumping two feet should be just fine on her legs as long as you work up to it slowly. I actually made a 'miniature cross country' course in a spare pasture to work my minis when they got bored with arena work. They love running in the field! Just be careful to make sure that the ground is level and that there aren't and holes before you go out. I can't wait to hear on how she does! Please post some videos if you get her going in dressage. It's one thing I've been wanting to do with my mare for the longest time and I'd love to see an example!

 

[Diva's Girl]

I would love to show you how me and Diva do it once we get more practiced. Diva and I are still learning ourselves and I have pretty much been going with the flow in trial and error with the dressage while following the basics. I probably wont be able to do a video till summer when the ground thaws and dries(Which wont be until late may at the earliest or June). Right now everything is too slick and cold for me to do anything but carting at a slow trot when the roads aren't Icy.

Youtube is a wonderful thing! I often watch in-hand dressage competitions and that is how I am learning. I watch what they do and apply it to Diva. If something is too advanced then I will think of a way to break it down into little steps that I can work through 1 piece at a time. Kinda like when you train a dog to do Rally or Agility. One of the first things I started with was teaching Diva to stand square and to flex standing. dog clickers and low suger/carb hay pellets work wonders if you feed by hand. If you don't have a clicker than a cue word like 'yes' will work.

Here is all the stuff I use for Diva in dressage:

* Surcingle (but if you don't have one then if you have a driving saddle it will work too.)

*Long reins

*a rope halter

* any non blinker headstall + whatever bit the horse is using

* Lunging rope

* Lunging whip and/or driving whip( A long crop or carrot stick would work too)

Here is a video on how to teach your horse to stand square and flex. I will PM you more if I find any good ones.

 

[Yaddax3]

My family is fortunate to have eight minis/ponies that have won national championships in Jumper classes at AMHR Nationals or Shetland Congress. FIve of the eight also have won multiple national titles in these driving classes -- Pleasure, Country Pleasure, Roadster and Park Harness.

We believe jumping helps a horse drive better because it strengthens their hind end.

Here's how we start a horse to jump: Put a pole just a few inches off the ground and once they clear it a few times, move it up at six-inch increments. We have had a few minis go from a few inches to clearing 30 inches in about 20 minutes. It certainly doesn't work that way with all of them, but if they are willing and they clear the height, why not go up incrementally?

 

[Diva's Girl]

That is how you do it with dogs too.

that is cool to know. I have been doing walking poles with diva to get her used to going over different objects and I have to reign her in to keep her from trying to jump them! She loves to try to jump things and I let her jump a few of my dog agility jumps in the fall but they where only 4inches off the ground, lol. I definatly want to introduce her to jumping this spring, once the ground dries so there is good footing.

 

[fourluckyhorseshoes]

I haven't read it but I would recommend checking out this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Mini-School-Train-Your-All/dp/1570764522

 

[targetsmom]

The book linked to in post #9 is written by Sabine Ellinger and includes quite a bit about Lancelot and his training. I recommend the book highly but I don't think it is the best one available for training to drive or jump though. She just touches on those topics. Lots about basic training and training for dressage though.

 

[Diva's Girl]

I was looking into different types of In-hand showmanship and I came across the very same video posted earlier. Lancelot is the horse that inspired me to do In-hand dressage with Diva. A little black paint mini by the name of Larry inspired me to do In-hand jumping. I am always watching their videos on youtube and collecting Ideas. I train other animals to jump liberty all the time, especially dogs, so If I can't find a book on how to teach minis to jump I should be able to modify things pretty easily for Diva. Is there any special cue words you guys use when jumping? I often use the word 'Over' because it is different than all the other commands and easy to remember.

 

[targetsmom]

There is a book available at Small Horse Press (and Amazon too I bet) on training miniature performance horses that covers hunter, jumper and obstacle. It is inexpensive and written by a judge, and I think is very good.

I do not use a cue for my horses to jump but I am sure everyone does it differently. We do both hunter and jumper so the only cues I use are for gait. I will use "trot" for hunter (because I am too old to canter) and a hiss sound for jumper (if the jumps are high) to let them know they can go faster. I might have to remind Princess (the one I have jumped the most) to "trot" when she lands, but then Cowboy needs a stronger reminder to trot between jumps. It is usually a major fault if the horse gets ahead of you so that you need to circle and of course in hunter, you want a nice, smooth round, so I work as much on control as I do the jumps.