Is he good for anything?

[kaykay]

I have my flame suit on and I am going to forward this with I love every horse no matter what. Pet quality, show quality (heck all my show horses are my pets) EVERY horse has a job.

This person came forward and openly admits this guys conformation is not so great. (which I agree) Yet so many say he will grow out of it, his conformation isnt that bad etc etc.

Then we have other threads saying to be more responsible in breeding. Its an oxymoron to me to see those threads and then read this one.

Why is it so bad to admit a horse is pet quality? Any breeder who says they have never produced one is lying. The responsible thing to do is take a hard look at your breeding stock and see where it went wrong.

In this example I would not ever make this breeding cross again and would take a hard look at the sire and dam.

And yes some horses go through a gawky stage, but true conformation faults generally only get worse as a horse matures. I mostly show yearlings and two year olds so to say that a lot of yearlings go through an ugly phase is not accurate.

Since she asked for a brutal critique, I would say this horse will probably get more coarse as he matures. I suspect he may have a ewe neck (and it ties in low), he has a low tail set, weak croup, straight pasturns, straight shoulder and lacks balance.

If a person cannot take a hard look at what hey have produced, then it is not responsible breeding.

Tremor I am not at all picking on your but in reading your posts you openly admit (and kudos to you for being honest)that your farm has produced several dwarfs.

This is what I mean by you have to take a hard look at what you have produced and know where to make changes.

 

[Make A Wish Miniatures]

Tremor, I am sorry you don't live closer or I would give you a horse that you could show Kay Kay's post was well said. I think most people don't want to hurt your feelings. Every horse is good for something . You have to just find where they will fit in the best. I am sure he will make a great pet for someone. Are there any breeders close to you that might have too many colts and would love a youth to take one of those colts geld it and get it out showing.? You might check into that.

 

[kaykay]

I wish he lived closer too! I would love to have a youth nearby that wanted to show. Kyle is working full time now so I doubt he will show anymore. Huge sad face

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I think showing in halter and driving might not be an option. Right now he just doesn't look like he would be built to be a extraordinarily driver. You can certainty train him up for fun, but will he be competitive time will tell. You say his personality is good make him a good obstacle horse and even a jumper. You can certaintly have fun with that and as a yearling you can start obstacle now.

 

[dixie_belle]

Well, I think he is just adorable. But then I've never met a horse I didn't like. I have four "pet quality" mini horses who will never show but who are nevertheless loved beyond measure. Heck, we even moved 800 miles just to give them more running around land. Now, THAT'S horsey love. Hubby says I'm a big softee. I must admit, he is quite correct (that's why we have four and not the two I originally planned). And if he can't be shown, how about you just love on him like I do with mine?

 

[Sue_C.]

Why is it so bad to admit a horse is pet quality? Firstly I HATE the term "pet quality" when put on a horse that is simply not a "halter" horse...there are many things a horse can go on to do besides standing still on the end of a lead. there are numerous in-hand and driving classes. Do you EVER hear of a poorly conformed-not-so-perfect Quarterhorse as "pet" quality? NO, and you won't...because chances ARE...it is a reining/pleasure/jumper/penner...needs I go on?? We are not talking about DOGS here...

Any breeder who says they have never produced one is lying. The responsible thing to do is take a hard look at your breeding stock and see where it went wrong.

I am not saying we should breed FOR the non-"perfect" horse...and yes, there are far-far too many poorly conformed horses being bred...but this one is a gelding...and she didn't ASK for a critique of her entire breeding program.

In this example I would not ever make this breeding cross again and would take a hard look at the sire and dam.

Again, I imagine, as she is putting these pics here, and reads this forum, she has already thinking along this line...sounds like she is already learning how to seriously critique her own animals...something many of the breeders I've seen...do not do hard enough.

And yes some horses go through a gawky stage, but true conformation faults generally only get worse as a horse matures. I mostly show yearlings and two year olds so to say that a lot of yearlings go through an ugly phase is not accurate.

Then you live in a much more perfect world than many of us...because even when I was raising Quarterhorses and Appaloosas, I wasn't the only breeder who would have a couple of "ugly duckling" yearlings that would go on to earn halter championships a year later and beyond.

Since she asked for a brutal critique, I would say this horse will probably get more coarse as he matures. I suspect he may have a ewe neck (and it ties in low), he has a low tail set, weak croup, straight pasturns, straight shoulder and lacks balance.

Yup, some of what you say I see too, but I STILL say he will mature better than what you see, and can certainly go on to be a nice little driving horse. Perhaps not a champion, but a wonderful youth horse perhaps...and youth is where it all begins...

If a person cannot take a hard look at what hey have produced, then it is not responsible breeding.

Truth...and she is...

Tremor I am not at all picking on your but in reading your posts you openly admit (and kudos to you for being honest)that your farm has produced several dwarfs.

I wasn't aware of that, and would absolutely geld any dwarf producing stallion, and never breed a dwarf producing mare again. and I hope she does the same...but it is hard to get it through to the beginner breeders how important this is, when so many of the BIG breeders continue to breed known dwarf carriers "because they are so well-bred, and (gasp) they are champions".

This is what I mean by you have to take a hard look at what you have produced and know where to make changes.

And to this I concur...but still like this guy's legs, and think he will level out somewhat...and will make a nice steady little driving gelding. No one has told her that he is ever going to magically become perfect...just trying to tell her that even though he isn't "halter perfect", he can still go on and lead a productive life as a performance gelding...I see nothing wrong with that. Should one purposefully breed for such, no.

 

[kaykay]

Firstly I HATE the term "pet quality" when put on a horse that is simply not a "halter" horse...there are many things a horse can go on to do besides standing still on the end of a lead. there are numerous in-hand and driving classes.

Its not just halter! When a person is looking for a good driving prospect the neck, hip and croup are very important. You cant drive a pretty head so that is a moot point. But there are other basics that need to be there. Every horse CAN drive but can they do it well? Will they end up with lameness issues if pushed too hard? My motto is first do no harm. If he was lightly driven for fun not a big deal. If hes pushed to show and be competitive I would worry. Because first and foremost its about him and what is in his best interest. But for sure he needs a chance to grow up.

I also agree that if he has a fabulous disposition and is smart he will make a great obstacle horse.

Anyway I am not trying to make anyone upset. Just trying to point out the "oxymoron" of some of the recent threads.

For years I have gone out of my way to help youth whenever I can because I know how important they are. Last week I offered my horses to a youth on another board to show in May. Because I want to encourage her and help keep her interested.

I know all those years of Kyle being involved with horses kept him out of trouble

 

[Taylor Richelle]

I know all those years of Kyle being involved with horses kept him out of trouble

I agree to this Kaykay! That's how my mom feels, even though it cost money and time for our "babies" she agrees it keeps me out of trouble. I think horses are a great thing for children to get started with! the young girl I babysit had never been around horses before and when she came to my house 6 months ago she was afraid of them now she's out there taking them over jumps and showing them who's boss! She's also riding my welsh around and cantering him!

She's even asking me to set jumps up so she can start jumping! She's a few steps ahead of me, I'm still trying to get her to sit correctly to a trot

 

[Make A Wish Miniatures]

I would like to think that there is someone on the forum who lives close enough to Tremor that they could give this girl a horse to show. It would not only benefit Tremor ,but would be great for the miniature horse industry in general to have a quality mini out there showing against full size horses in 4H and FFA Too often people only see the pet quality miniatures in 4H and that is what gives minis a bad name. Note I did NOT say that all minis shown at 4H are pet quality . But wouldn't it be nice to see a really good mini as an example for all the people invoved with other breeds.

 

[kaykay]

I so agree. Wish I had something that would fit. We have decided to keep tom so hes out. I do have a new colt but hes just born so it would be awhile. His full brother is a youth gelding and doing great in 4H and rated shows. Dang it. Plus shipping Ohio to Iowa would cost a fortune.

Then again we should ask Tremor and the parents if they want another mini

 

[Zipper]

I really shouldnt add my 2 cents as I am going to show my horses this year and they are not show quality but they are what I have and I want to show real bad and I dont have the money to buy a show horse but by your saying what you have said about Pete I think you know deep down that he is not what you want to show and you dont want to invest the money into showing him as you said you havent even sent in his reg. papers yet.

You have to do what is right for you and you are the one that has to put the time into him.

Take him to a show and ask someone to tell you their opinion.

Members have posted some great advice.

 

[Tremor]

I thank you guys for being very blunt in your answers. That's what I wanted. I knew that Pete had some (more than a few...) conformation faults. I am not surprised by any of these. His dam is a very oddly shaped mare. His sire, would have made a very nice driving prospect. His sire usually did amazing at making his foals like him, especially with the very same mare. He had done so twice previously. I'm praying that he'll do so again this year for our very LAST foal. The stallion has since been sold. Pete was gelded about a month ago, and his dam is waiting patiently to foal. I've been working slowly on her ground manners in the mean time.

My family's herd went wrong on both ends. My parents and I don't agree with this. I, fully say that it was wrong on both ends. They, mostly say it was either the mare or stallion's fault. I'm slowly trying to pound into their heads that Bow (Pete's dam) is not breeding quality just because she is a cremello. Before too long they'll understand.

I do thank you guys for the offers of a colt to show. I am going to say that I am not interested in another horse. (Shocker right?) I had definitely been contemplating the possibility of getting a different show horse. That was around 2009. At this point in time I believe that if I were to buy a show quality miniature that I would not be doing any justice by my own herd. I know, it sounds really weird of me. But, I really don't want to push my horses away from my attention for another horse who has better conformation. I don't want to "throw away" Pete or my other misfits.

I know enough common sense that it would not be smart to teach him how to drive or do halter. I could do both, but A) I would be at risk for disappointment. B) Possibly cause unsoundness to Pete. C) Not have fun. There are many other options for me. Near me in 4H/FFA the only option for me is Showmanship. I could do that with Pete if I really tried hard. In AMHR, when I register him, I can do other stuff like obstacle or jumping. I don't have the option of doing that anywhere else.

I personally believe that keeping Pete and focusing on what we could do together that would be fun and SAFE (ie. Nothing that would cause him harm because of his conformation) would be better than going out and starting the long process of finding a new horse, bonding, and then training it. Since I know Pete and how he works (CALMLY and SLOWLY!) I would be able to work with more so.

I also do believe that what he is going through is NOT fugly stage, but rather just Him.

I do wonder though, is it okay to do Showmanship classes with a yearling?

Thank you guys for being honest and opening my mind to the idea of Showmanship classes.

-Julia

 

[kaykay]

Julia

You have a great head on your shoulders and I applaud you! I have done showmanship with yearlings. Its a bit harder as their attention span isnt as long as an older horse, but it can be done! Its really only a problem when you have a lot of entries and the class gets really long.

I think you and Pete will have a blast and you will both learn from each other.

Kay

 

[Make A Wish Miniatures]

Good luck with showmanship, I am sure you will do well. Is your little cremello mare bred to the stallion that had all the dwarfs? You are very smart for selling him and no longer breeding. Eventually your parents will come to understand the genetics are from BOTH the sire and Dam.

 

[targetsmom]

Julia - I also applaud your attitude and wish you the BEST of luck with Pete. If he has a knack for halter obstacle, I don't see any reason why he couldn't do obstacle driving when he is older.

 

[Tremor]

Thank you guys.

My cremello mare is in fact bred to the dwarf carrier stallion. They're Pete's dam and sire.

 

[Zipper]

Have lots of fun with Pete as he sounds like a awesome little horse.

That is a great attitude you have for a youth and it will get you far. Keep us informed on how the training is going and I could use some tips.