Molly's Run Minis
Well-Known Member
my question was if the bit was allowed in the ring, NOT if i should use one!
Jumper/Hunter Question
- Thread starter Molly's Run Minis
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valshingle
Well-Known Member
MR - I am trying to reach the show dept of AMHA for you to ask that question.
Without a concrete answer though, I would tell you that since none of us has ever seen it done, it is probably not a good idea to chance it. Without going into whether or not it is good for your horse, there is the fact that the judges may not like it and penalize you for it. Just because something is allowed, it doesn't mean that it is preferred or that you won't be counted off for it.
Also, do you need the bit to control your mare from going too fast or to make the turns? If so - part of the hunter 'look' is a horse that is pleasantly trotting from one jump to the next. Speed, in a hunter class, is penalized. Make sure she has the proper energy level before entering the arena.
Without a concrete answer though, I would tell you that since none of us has ever seen it done, it is probably not a good idea to chance it. Without going into whether or not it is good for your horse, there is the fact that the judges may not like it and penalize you for it. Just because something is allowed, it doesn't mean that it is preferred or that you won't be counted off for it.
Also, do you need the bit to control your mare from going too fast or to make the turns? If so - part of the hunter 'look' is a horse that is pleasantly trotting from one jump to the next. Speed, in a hunter class, is penalized. Make sure she has the proper energy level before entering the arena.
ruffian
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i've been working with her with a bit and she goes best in it. i cant even use a chain on her show halter anymore, never mind when i'm jumping. she seems alot more happier with a bit so thats what i'm going to use. Thanks for answering my question!
Page 98 of the AMHA rules states that chains that may be part of the lead cannot be in the mouth or over the nose. Note it states 'Halter". A chain in the mouth is disqualification. IMO I interpret that to mean that the horse must be wearing a halter, not a bridle. Therefore showing your mare in a bridle would be disqualified.
IMO It sounds like you need to go back to basics with your mare, walking over poles etc., if she's getting so excited and unmanageable that you need a bridle to control her.
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
What an exercise in frustration. If you don't want advice, don't ask for it.
People here care about the welfare of your horse and for horses in general. That's why we care what you do with your horse.
Molly's Run Minis
Well-Known Member
Jill, i WASNT asking for advice, that what i'm trying to say! i was asking about a rule in AMHA showing and instead i get bombarded with people saying not to do it!
Thank you valshingle for all your help. i appreciate it
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
You should probably just download the rule book, read it, and resolve to learn things the hard way. We all have things we've made ourselves learn the hard way because we decided not to listen to well intended advice of those who have more experience and better insight.
If I were doing something that could hurt / does hurt my horse and was asking if it was compatible with the rules or not, I would want people to let me know it could / does hurt my horse and why that's the case -- even if it wasn't against some show rules.
If I were doing something that could hurt / does hurt my horse and was asking if it was compatible with the rules or not, I would want people to let me know it could / does hurt my horse and why that's the case -- even if it wasn't against some show rules.
Allure Ranch
Well-Known Member
O.K. I can see where this is going....
MR I know that you just asked a question.... But keep in mind that the other individuals responses are recommending what is the BEST form of presentation for your horse when it comes to appearance/handling them when they are in the show ring. Not to mention what the standard is and has been.
If you elect not the (read) what they are saying your going to be doing a discredit to yourself and your horses. These are experienced horse people that are providing you with a wealth of knowledge and are trying to save you from a multitude of mistakes. Therefore, whether a bridal with a smooth snaffle bit can or not be utilized shouldn't be the issue. It should be what is the standard practice for presentation so that you and your horse look appropriate. Furthermore, you could potentially hurt the horse and yourself as well based on your lack of experience.
Please stop and truly reinterpret what is being suggested/recommended/said.... all by good natured individuals who are willing to help you.
MR I know that you just asked a question.... But keep in mind that the other individuals responses are recommending what is the BEST form of presentation for your horse when it comes to appearance/handling them when they are in the show ring. Not to mention what the standard is and has been.
If you elect not the (read) what they are saying your going to be doing a discredit to yourself and your horses. These are experienced horse people that are providing you with a wealth of knowledge and are trying to save you from a multitude of mistakes. Therefore, whether a bridal with a smooth snaffle bit can or not be utilized shouldn't be the issue. It should be what is the standard practice for presentation so that you and your horse look appropriate. Furthermore, you could potentially hurt the horse and yourself as well based on your lack of experience.
Please stop and truly reinterpret what is being suggested/recommended/said.... all by good natured individuals who are willing to help you.
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Molly's Run Minis
Well-Known Member
....how does a smooth snaffle bit hurt a horse exactly? i already said i wasnt going to use a bit SO GET OFF MY BACK!!!
why do people on this forum seem to enjoy giving advise that isnt wanted/needed and then flaming the poster?
i cant tell you how many people i have seen post "putting on flame suit", "flame away", etc.
when people expect to get flamed so easily dont yall think you have a problem here??
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Molly, if you have a hard time taking advice, maybe you should think of that before you post a topic. No one said anything to be mean or to hassle you.
If you really want to know how a snaffle bit can hurt a horse (I guess you don't believe us), research bits and proper usage. Learn about the importance of soft, steady hands, pressure, release / reward. ETC.
If you really want to know how a snaffle bit can hurt a horse (I guess you don't believe us), research bits and proper usage. Learn about the importance of soft, steady hands, pressure, release / reward. ETC.
Molly's Run Minis
Well-Known Member
once again, I WASNT ASKING FOR ADVICE! Why is that so hard to believe??
i realize that a bit, if used improperly, can hurt a horse but i wasnt useing it improperly and Misty didnt show any signs of discomfort.
i had, like, 10 people posting on this topic saying again and again not to use it, i call that hasseling.
Reble
Well-Known Member
I am glad your question was answered, and nice to see you will not be using the bit.
I believe, sometimes when posting we sometimes get more than what we ask for, but we should try to respect each other.
I believe, sometimes when posting we sometimes get more than what we ask for, but we should try to respect each other.
Hi Molly's Run! There is some great advice on here that I think you'll appreciate more in a little bit when your head is clear-in the meantime, don't let anyone else make you upset. Sometimes the responses can be frustrating, but being able to sift through it and look at the different perspectives and responses is a great way to learn.
HUGS
Let's all keep in mind as well this neat little saying:
"Be kinder than necessary for everyone is fighting their own battle"
There seem to be a few adults antagonizing the situation. Let's all remember that this is a minor with a mild form of autism who may not take things the way you meant them. Let's all be the adults we are and step away, let Molly's Run clear her head and not try to make things worse.
HUGS
Let's all keep in mind as well this neat little saying:
"Be kinder than necessary for everyone is fighting their own battle"
There seem to be a few adults antagonizing the situation. Let's all remember that this is a minor with a mild form of autism who may not take things the way you meant them. Let's all be the adults we are and step away, let Molly's Run clear her head and not try to make things worse.
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Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Because you just asked a question:
I thought you sincerely wanted an answer to the question you just asked.
It is very hard to know what to say to your requests for input on LB because it doesn't seem that anything ever comes across to you the way it's been intented. I don't know what can be done to improve that situation, but no one here offered advice with the intention of getting you upset.
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hobbyhorse23
Well-Known Member
Ignoring the drama on pages 3 and 4, I'm going to toss in my own .02 on this issue since I asked this question myself awhile ago.
There are folks in the French Saumur school who long-line full-sized horses over special jumps with poles laid against the standard so the lines cannot get caught, but that's experts and on long-lines, not running beside the horse. That truly would be unfairly risky to the horse and a very bad idea. Doing so without contact, using a long set of reins or leads, would be much more doable IMO. The care would be in making sure as you took up contact you did so softly and without jabbing. Perhaps using a latex-wrapped Myler bit?
I would not recommend jumping in-hand in a bit for children, novices, or most normal horses. But I think in certain cases, for certain reasons, with appropriate caution and experience, it could be done. My biggest concern would be (as others said) the possibility of falling or hooking a standard or otherwise accidentally yanking the horse.
Leia
Sandee said:
I'd be controlling my horse the same way I would in a halter- with my body position, and gentle pressure on his mouth/head when he gets ahead of me. For me personally the purpose would be to guide my horse in making turns away from me as he gets way too excited and bulls forward. Cavaletti work, jumping grids and all the rest work well at home, but once he's in the ring at a show he's on fire and not about to stop. I am not physically strong enough to hold him back with a halter when he gets like that. Neither are the couple of capable trainers who have tried! They say he's got the mentality of a 16h grand prix jumper and simply can't wait to go over the next one! He respects a bridle however and since I'd be confident of being able to slow or direct him I could run fast enough to make him happy without worrying about him getting away from me or missing a turn. This relies on me having some way to signal the right side of his mouth separately from the left, either using two reins or a bit connector as one poster mentioned.ruffian said:
I don't believe anyone would advocate trying to hold steady contact through a jumper course!jegray21 said:I would hope that a bit would be against the rules. It is hard enough to keep you hands steady when riding horses over jumps, never mind steady contact while running next to them.sounds unfair to me.
Most people don't use leg protection on their jumpers either. Does that mean I shouldn't? Same thing with wearing breeches and hunter attire. Neither are standard at my local shows but that does not make them unprofessional or incorrect. "Everyone" uses checks at breed shows too, but the minute they're optional you can bet I'll be taking mine off!Allure Ranch said:
I would not recommend jumping in-hand in a bit for children, novices, or most normal horses. But I think in certain cases, for certain reasons, with appropriate caution and experience, it could be done. My biggest concern would be (as others said) the possibility of falling or hooking a standard or otherwise accidentally yanking the horse.
Leia
Molly's Run Minis
Well-Known Member
i was being sarcastic!
i dont know how many times i need to say i wasnt asking for advice or input! i've been on here long enough to know that asking for advice/input will get you jumped on or flamed WHICH IS WHY I DIDNT ASK FOR IT!!!
i'm done asking things. everytime i post its either i get hasseled or ignored and i'm so tired of it. I'M DONE
I'll just go back to being a lurker
btw THANK YOU HOBBYHORSE!!! its the exact same way for me and my mare! She's usually ok at home but once in the show ring she's full of herself and can be hard to control.
valshingle
Well-Known Member
MR - I hope you are still lurking because I have the official answer to your question. Kristy M. in the AMHA office wasn't sure about the answer so she called Bob Kane, Chairman of the Show Rules committee. His answer is "Don't do it." That is exactly what he said. That means it's against the rules.
If I were to interpret the reasoning behind that comment...I believe that since a chain through the mouth is against the rules, so is a bit. While they are different things, they are both ways of controlling the horse through it's mouth.
If you choose to use the bridle without the bit, I recommend that you make sure that is is very evident that there is no bit attached. Some bridles make it hard to tell if a bit is attached or not.
To make her easier to handle in the class, I suggest (and it's a suggestion only) that you lunge her before the class and get her quieter than you would want at home. Depending on her fitness level, that could be 20+ mins of solid lunging. One of my driving horses is usually lunged the night before and the day of the class ~ otherwise he isn't 'good' until the third class in a row, lol.
Good luck!
If I were to interpret the reasoning behind that comment...I believe that since a chain through the mouth is against the rules, so is a bit. While they are different things, they are both ways of controlling the horse through it's mouth.
If you choose to use the bridle without the bit, I recommend that you make sure that is is very evident that there is no bit attached. Some bridles make it hard to tell if a bit is attached or not.
To make her easier to handle in the class, I suggest (and it's a suggestion only) that you lunge her before the class and get her quieter than you would want at home. Depending on her fitness level, that could be 20+ mins of solid lunging. One of my driving horses is usually lunged the night before and the day of the class ~ otherwise he isn't 'good' until the third class in a row, lol.
Good luck!
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Allure Ranch
Well-Known Member
Lets stay focused and not make this into a another subject within itself that could potentially get out of hand....
and thank you Peakview Minis....
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lol simply due to the fact you ask if you didnt ask for advice no one would know nor tell you what to do with your horse
I know it is hard to hear sometimes things you didnt exactly ask but.. you always take what makes sense to you and leave behind what doesnt. You are right she is your horse and you will make the ultimate decisions for her
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