Just how much is color worth!?

[stormy]

I just do not understand how a color can be worth risking the life of a foal, condemning it to a painful death yet here again I see for sale an LWO positive bred to an LWO positive. Explain this to me. Why would this be a selling point??

 

[Mona]

NO! For me, I would NOT buy that horse. I would not be willing to personally take that 25% chance on dealing with losing a LWO foal, let alone watching the mare suffer for her loss as well. :no:

 

[crponies]

It actually makes no sense at all because you have no higher chance of achieving a healthy, frame foal than when breeding LWO positive to LWO negative. Positive x Positive = 25% chance negative, 50% chance healthy positive, and 25% dead double positive. Positive x Negative = 50% chance negative, 50% chance healthy positive. So your chances of a healthy positive are the same but you are risking losing a foal shortly after birth and wasting the entire year (not to mention the emotional pain for all involved).

 

[Sue_C.]

I just do not understand how a color can be worth risking the life of a foal, condemning it to a painful death yet here again I see for sale an LWO positive bred to an LWO positive. Explain this to me. Why would this be a selling point??

Just goes to prove yet again; that greed, ignorance and idiocy abounds in all diciplines and breeds...sigh...

 

[Songcatcher]

I think this is just an example of a breeder not being knowlegable about the facts of genetics. Absolutely no better chance of having a live LWO positive foal than by breeding LWO+ to LWO-.

 

[Jill]

I wouldn't cross LWO to LWO. I just had a thread to get my education together so I would know how to make sure I never do.

HOWEVER, if I saw a mare bred that way and she was THE mare I wanted, I would probably still buy her assuming the pricing was what I felt she and the possible situation were worth to me.

My reasoning is that if she's carrying a lethal white foal, she is carrying it regardless of if *I* buy her or someone else buys her. The situation would exist regardless of who owns her but if she was just the ticket for me then at least I would do my best to see she got the proper attention and of course would pray that we didn't have a lethal foal.

 

[RJRMINIS]

Sadly there are soooo many people that are not aware of LWO.....I have learned so much from this forum.......I originally heard about it from APHA...........but learned more on here.........I just pulled hairs on my new stallion to send in to have him tested before I breed him to my Tovero mares.............Just don't want to take any chances and it is well worth the $25 to know for sure.

But I know of alot of people that have not heard of this.....and I have to explain or send them to sites that explain it better.

What is scarey is there are horses out there, that you would NEVER guess to carry LWO positive. I have seen people post some of their horses that are positive and I have been shocked.........

SO it is definately an awareness problem IMO........... I do have a friend that has a Tovero stallion, just getting into breeding mini's and she was looking at Tovero mares and I told her about it, she had never heard about it.............

 

[Sue_C.]

I think this is just an example of a breeder not being knowlegable about the facts of genetics.

Yes, there are many who don't understand, and ignorance is often used as an excuse. IMHO, if one is going to get involved with breeding, I feel they should investigate the facts...not just throw a mare and stallion together.

In THIS CASE...I think it's very possible they knew what they were doing, but just didn't care... because they are advertising it as such...

I see for sale an LWO positive bred to an LWO positive.

But yes, if I really liked the mare, and the price was right...I might buy her. Like has already been said...the deed has been done, it's too late to go back and change it. I would ask to have the stud fee removed from the price though...or would have a paper drawn-up, to have it refunded should the foal be lethal white.

 

[frekles93]

[SIZE=14pt]There was a girl I worked with that got a visable (not tested) LWO mare and was tring to find a stud to breed and I said make sure it isnt LWO +...... whats that she said... well I explained and she looked it up her self....... I think she was STILL looking at a LWO+ stud. I got mad at her and blew up and told her WHY would you do that with the possibility of a dead foal???? I think that people just dont care. At LEAST she could do was get her mare tested to make sure......[/SIZE]

April

 

[Firefall]

The person that posted the ad on the sale board asked me to post this for him. I can also vouch for him, he's very nice , very caring person and I have bought several nice mini's from him. Not sure that I agree

that what is posted on the sale board should be a topic on a public forum though.

"Any one can make an ordinary solid boring colored foal, but producing an extraordinary loud colored beautiful overo frame overo baby is a task. This task is made easier by crossing two LWO pox horses. This is not for the weak of heart, but only for the serious breeder who wants to duplicate awesome color. With this cross you do stand a 25% chance of a lethal foal, however in the 20 years that i have been breeding i have only had 2 lethal foals. I feel it has been well worth the chance since I have had so many aw some loud colored beautiful babies. Lets view the break down: LWO to LWO= 50% frame foals, 25% solid and 25% lethal......When crossing a LWO stallion to a solid colored mare you get a 50% chance of a solid foal. In my eyes its not worth feeding the mare a calender year for a solid foal that is next to worthless in todays market." T. Charles

 

[stormy]

I strongly feel this is indeed something that should be discussed on the public forum. Every year on this board there are several heartbreaking reports of lethal white foals and the suffering they and the owners go through. Is color really worth this??? We get all hot about dwarfism, something there is no test for yet select for a lethal that there is a test for because it produces a pretty color!!

 

[Songcatcher]

The person that posted the ad on the sale board asked me to post this for him. I can also vouch for him, he's very nice , very caring person and I have bought several nice mini's from him. Not sure that I agree

that what is posted on the sale board should be a topic on a public forum though.

"Any one can make an ordinary solid boring colored foal, but producing an extraordinary loud colored beautiful overo frame overo baby is a task. This task is made easier by crossing two LWO pox horses. This is not for the weak of heart, but only for the serious breeder who wants to duplicate awesome color. With this cross you do stand a 25% chance of a lethal foal, however in the 20 years that i have been breeding i have only had 2 lethal foals. I feel it has been well worth the chance since I have had so many aw some loud colored beautiful babies. Lets view the break down: LWO to LWO= 50% frame foals, 25% solid and 25% lethal......When crossing a LWO stallion to a solid colored mare you get a 50% chance of a solid foal. In my eyes its not worth feeding the mare a calender year for a solid foal that is next to worthless in todays market." T. Charles

I was not responding to any one breeder in particular, but I must conclude that this breeder does not complete his math equation. LWO to LWO does indeed = 50% Frame foals. So does LWO to Solid = 50% Frame foals WITHOUT the 25% chance of a lethal foal. There is NO advantage in taking the risk.

 

[Sue_C.]

In my eyes its not worth feeding the mare a calender year for a solid foal that is next to worthless in todays market."

:new_shocked: But it's worth feeding her for the 25% chance of a dead foal...

: Ahhhh...yeah....make sense to me...

: Besides, if he truely has beaten the 25% odds as he has for the past 20 years, he's due for some hard times...

And where has he been, that solid foals are next to worthless? :lol: :lol:

I raise and breed my horses for conformation, and disposition...colour isn't even secondary; so I guess I just don't understand taking such chances with unborn foal's lives, simply to think, (mistakenly) that it might make the colour better on a survivng foal. :no:

Not sure that I agree that what is posted on the sale board should be a topic on a public forum though.

Way I figure it, anything I post on the WWW, is public knowledge once it's there...and although pictures and direct quotes might be protected...there is nothing to stop people from discussing whatever they wish, either publically or privately. We have dicussed many other topics here, quite publicly, such as stifle problems, dwarfism...etc...LWO, is simply another.

 

[Firefall]

I discussion is fine on the LWO. But I don't think someones add from the sale board should be!

There are plenty of addy's on there that are selling less than perfect minis, should we discuss them too, pick

their breeding programs apart because we don't agree? Just my opinion.

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Well in this case the owner probably doesn't know what can result from LWO to LWO breedings...if the mare is what I was looking for I would purchase her for that AND so at least she is with an experienced person who understands what can happen, how to help, etc. etc. (obviously i'm not experienced yet lol but for those of you who are!) This poor foal's fate is already made, i'd rather know it's being born in an understanding world than a world where it has no chance at all.

 

[Sue_C.]

Well in this case the owner probably doesn't know what can result from LWO to LWO breedings...

But yes...he does... you couldn't have read the post with his (the owner's) answer...here it is...

"Any one can make an ordinary solid boring colored foal, but producing an extraordinary loud colored beautiful overo frame overo baby is a task. This task is made easier by crossing two LWO pox horses. This is not for the weak of heart, but only for the serious breeder who wants to duplicate awesome color. With this cross you do stand a 25% chance of a lethal foal, however in the 20 years that i have been breeding i have only had 2 lethal foals. I feel it has been well worth the chance since I have had so many aw some loud colored beautiful babies. Lets view the break down: LWO to LWO= 50% frame foals, 25% solid and 25% lethal......When crossing a LWO stallion to a solid colored mare you get a 50% chance of a solid foal. In my eyes its not worth feeding the mare a calender year for a solid foal that is next to worthless in todays market." T. Charles

This poor foal's fate is already made, i'd rather know it's being born in an understanding world than a world where it has no chance at all

Problem is, if it is born lethal white...it doesn't matter how understanding you are, or what you know. It IS going to DIE...

 

[Mona]

I discussion is fine on the LWO. But I don't think someones add from the sale board should be!

There are plenty of addy's on there that are selling less than perfect minis, should we discuss them too, pick

their breeding programs apart because we don't agree? Just my opinion.

The poster of this thread never mentioned a specific ad or a specific sale board. If people presumed and/or assumed it was the one on LB and maybe it was, but people drew their own conclusions.

As for this guy being a nice person(as you stated in your originial message that contained his email to you)...well, I don;t know about that...he sure sent me a not-so-nice email this morning, only because I stated I would not personally buy a horse as described in the post, and I would not personally breed LWO to LWO.

:

 

[Sue_C.]

As for this guy being a nice person(as you stated in your originial message that contained his email to you)...well, I don;t know about that...he sure sent me a not-so-nice email this morning, only because I stated I would not personally buy a horse as described in the post, and I would not personally breed LWO to LWO.

Well Mona...I'm right behind you 100%. :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

And no, I didn't know it was a horse for sale on this board either, and I didn't even look to see if it was. If I'm not buying...I don't bother looking. It could have been hypothetical for all I knew until his quote was posted.

:

 

[Asia]

I would never buy an LWO mare bred to a LWO stallion.

I agree the fate of this foal is already a done deal, but

as far as "saving" this mare from being bred like this

again I can't agree with.

If mares bred like this, continue to sell (for what ever reason)

breeder like this will continue to breed them.

I think the best way to prevent this I to NOT buy them!

Do the math, if there is NO ADVANTAGE then why take the

25% chance of a dead foal. Thats just cruel

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Sue, I apologize no I didn't read the entire thread, I was in a hurry to put my own opinion in =) Sorry and thank you for posting the owners reply...that makes things a LOT different in my head!!!

As far as the mare being bought and foaling with an experienced person, it just softens my heart a little knowing the foal is going to die in understanding arms rather than be found dead out in a pasture somewhere, causing some real emotional pain for a non-understanding beginner or something.