Just some of my own thoughts and feelings

[horsehug]

I just wanted to say I do not want to hurt feelings or offend anyone. But after reading lots of posts recently and also over the years, about what we do with our minis and why we have them, and geldings vs stallions, and showing as well as other ways of enjoying them, and the market for them ....... just to mention a few topics.....I have a few thoughts of my own on several points.

I had posted most of this the day before yesterday on another thread which has since been removed, so it was not on very long at all, and I thought I'd post most of my post again since I finally took the time to sit down and write things which had been on my mind for years.

I used to show my little minis at our county fair and it was not either AMHA or AMHR sanctioned but it was so much fun and the town folks always loved having the minis there. It did not matter if they were registered or not. Some had never seen them before and became interested! There are so many ways to help the market of these little guys and that is just one.

I also love taking mine to the nursing home in our home town when they ask us. We usually take a mare and a tiny foal so that we can lift the tiny foal up and even let the ones in bed pet it and have it right there on the bed They love that! This is one of the many reasons I personally love the tiny ones.

In our town parades, I also drive my stallion and sometimes take a few foals and moms along walking each year, and that too is a first time to see minis for lots of folks! They are so well liked they usually win one of the prizes for entries in the parade.

I believe that in the "overall big picture", the vast majority of mini owners do not show, and also a huge number of mini owners have their own stallions. I am one of those. I used to show close to home years ago, but my heart has always been much more in the breeding and foaling end of it. I think those who show and love it should definitely be showing. I have friends who do, and I cheer them on!

I also think those who have their own stallions and mares and choose to raise foals each year and get tremendous joy out of that, should do that. Miniature horses have SO many ways of bringing joy and we each have to find our own niche.

And I also think when it comes to "type", that everyone is going to have their own opinion on horses.

And I think it is important for each of us to raise the kind of minis WE love, not what someone else is telling us to raise. If someone loves their stallion and the babies he puts on the ground and can either keep them for his own enjoyment or finds good homes for them with no problem, then I do not see a reason to geld that stallion. If the foals have the good health and conformation to end up in loving homes and lead happy healthy lives, that is what is important in my humble opinion.

I truly think that is what the vast majority of breeders do....... those who never post or do not show, but are enjoying their little herds all over this great land of ours as well as in other countries....... and that it is really only a fraction of mini horse owners who show, and certainly who show to the national level. And I think the vast majority of these small (for the most part) breeders would feel very bad to have someone tell them their stallion should be gelded, unless they asked for that kind of opinion on here. Consequently I think people who do post pics and ask for opinions are very brave and need to be very thick skinned. And I admire them also.

I also think there are probably a Huge number of "diamonds in the rough" on farms that are never even considered for showing but are out there producing beautiful babies just like the champions.

I'm sure many of you will disagree with one point or another in these musings of mine And that is okay!

But I often think about these things and hope people are enjoying their minis as much as I do mine, even if they are not national champions, but beloved companions and pets, and probably many with excellent conformation also.

These are only my thoughts and opinions.

And thanks for letting me express them. I sometimes feel like there might be out there a huge silent majority who needs to have a voice. If I am wrong, so be it. This was not meant to hurt anyone.

And if I am the only one with these thoughts, well I have lived most of my life to the beat of a different drummer.

Susan O.

 

[CharmedMinis]

Awesome post Susan!!!

I agree with you 100%

:

 

[Scoopiedoo]

VERY eloquently spoken again, Susan. :aktion033: Thank you.

Jodi

 

[backwoodsnanny]

Susan as I PM'd you you voiced what many were thinking. Thank you.

I also think that many of these posts get soooo very heated because everyone really does have the best interest of the little horses at heart but also human nature being what it is there are also many who dont understand why it is anyone elses business what they raise or breed for that matter.

I really do believe that all who breed think when they breed that they ARE breeding the best they can afford which we hear on this board all the time. The problem comes when the best we can afford is not the best others can afford. I think many of us started with pet quality minis and even if we didnt breed them many starting out dont see conformational flaws in their own horses. Hence the term Barn blind and I have, at points in time been as guilty of it as anyone. I did not love them any less than I love what we have now and we still have the first two rescues we ever bought because we promised them a home for life not because they are the best horses in the barn.

We have had minis for 6 years a very short time compared to many here and truthfully did not really think about foals until 2 years ago. We had our first foal crop of our own breeding last year and yes there are some things I would change and we are working toward that now but Rome wasnt built in a day and everyone should be able to remember when they were brand new and just starting their own breeding programs and they didnt start with National Champions either if the truth were told. Its sort of like raising children without remembering when we were children ourselves.

Again thank you for your musings.

 

[Twistwood]

Susan, I bet a majority of mini owners agree with you! Yeah for saying it out loud :aktion033: We are a small breeder in the south and we do enjoy showing too but as a social worker I find that pet therapy is alot of fun and great for my patients. You see, I work in a Mental Health facility for adults. It is a state run hospital. I brought 5 miniatures for our Christmas Parade and wow, the patients just lit up! They are still talking about the "little horses". Many times I have shared my horses with others, nursing homes and town fairs etc. I too like to just enjoy them. We do have a few foals each year, not more than we can handle and we love foaling season (we are on foal watch with our 17 yr old mare as we speak!). You are also right about "diamonds in the rough" I know folks here that have beautiful horses but do not show them, but the still enjoy them. I have met some very nice people in the miniature world and I have run across a few greedy folks that just like to be hurtful, but when I look out at my "babies" I am reminded what they do for me and how much joy I get from them. Last year, I almost died TWICE. I had a heart attack in March and had a stent put in and one month later had open gallblader surgery because I had gangren. Either of these conditions could have killed me. I spent many days recovering at home. I would sit on my porch and watch my horses play and interact. This was such a comfort and they don't know how much they helped me through that tough time. So yes, Susan. I do appreciate the miniature and what they do for all of us who love and care for them. Excellent post!

:

 

[Miniv]

Nice post, Susan.

MA

 

[Mona]

I agree 100% Susan! I have always done and felt the same way.

:

I have what I like to see out in my pastures. I try to raise what I feel are a good quality of Miniature Horses, and I am the one doing the work, and I'm the one paying the bills, and in the end, I am going to raise what I want to see out there in my pastures!

: .

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well said, Susan! My feelings exactly! :aktion033:

Melba

 

[~Palomino~]

Great Post Susan! I agree with you 100%! Sometimes people get caught up on trying to make others happy and forget to make themselfs happy! Everyone and Anyone who knows you knows that you have some of the CUTEST friendliest minis ever! And I would rather much see that then some national-champion-to-be out of controll horse!

Thanks for posting that!

Gage

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I can see your point but, sorry, I do have to disagree a little.

Many (MANY) years ago before we could dream of owning a registered Arab we bought a couple of "grade" Arabs.

Both these mares were awesome to look at and, as we were into working /Jumping/Gymkhana at the time, more than breeding, they did everything we wanted.

BUT when we came to settle down to breed, although we did breed these mares, and they were eligible for part- bred papers (so at NO time were we breeding unregistered foals) we quickly saw that if we wanted to achieve our goal the way forward was not to sit in the sideline and moan that it was unfair that our (very beautiful and easily better than a lot of purebred) foals were undervalued and this was not right, etc.

The way forward was to get in the ring and breed Arabs as good as, if not better than the part bred foals we had had.

And that is what we did.

At NO time during all the years, right form the start when I was a kid, would I ever have even considered using an unregistered stallion on my mares- even though the first mare I had was an unregistered Fell pony- I used an Arab stallion on her.

Long before we could afford out first Arab mare we had a stallion- a very good, very well bred stallion, too, he more than earned his keep at stud.

The only difference between a "pet" Mini and a "show" Mini should be the job it does- there is no reason at all why an animal that could have been World Champion, should not be happy doing parades and nursing home visits- in fact I would rather sell an animal to a home like this and, if the colt gas not been gelded I am happy to give a gelding concession, even on a colt that I consider good enough to stay entire- it is the job he is bought for that is important, not my opinion of him.

I would not keep an unregistered or second rate stallion irrespective of how "good" his foals are as it is not the first generation that is important to me, it is the fourth and fifth, as I am now into, that counts.

I breed for always, not just for myself- I hope that in generations to come people will look back on my stock- as they are already starting to do- and see quality- just as Buckaroo in one of your pedigrees, so "Mighty Atom" in ours.

This is what I am breeding for- since sweet little pets and "ugly bugs" both happen without any help and in the very best breeding programmes I can see absolutely no point in breeding for them specifically.

I see no reason for this "snobbery" that is arising- "I breed good sound pets and none of my horses are registered" does NOT cut it for me.

As if the suggestion is, no "Show Horse" (hifaluting neurotic creatures that they are,) could possibly be well natured!!

I breed top class show animals.

They are all sound in body and mind and are all capable of doing three jobs- Halter, Performance and Breeding.

Except the geldings!!

After all- what use is a gelding if it cannot perform, (at some level- in this I include pet and nursing home work as "performing") and please remember that these geldings that perform are the full brothers of the "neurotic" creatures that win at halter!!

So no I think it is a very , very dangerous precedent to set, to start to split a "breed" that is not even yet halfway to being a breed, into "show" and "pet".

We should be incorporating BOTH aspects in our registered breeding programmes.

Trust me- I have seen the damage this sort of thinking has caused in Dogs and Arabs- it does NO good at all.

Instead of kicking against al this, since the AMHA at least is looking for ways to make money, perhaps they should be looking at opening a Part Bred register- it is the biggest money spinner the Arab Horse Society has ever had!!!

 

[Warpony]

If there weren't so many horses in rescue or going through local auctions as weanlings and selling for almost nothing (if they sell at all) I would agree... I WANT to agree because deep in my heart more then anything I WANT to breed and I just can't afford a really fine quality herd. But I just can't look at the horses in need of homes and breed without feeling terribly guilty. If I breed it wouldn't be to sell, it would be to add another tiny horse to my family... but how can I justify that when I can just go to the auction, pay $25 for a weanling of the same quality I could produce or better, and save it from god only knows what horrors? I can't justify that. Not for myself.

 

[just2minis]

:aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: You said that very kindly and respectfully, and I totally agree.

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

:aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

On SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many levels and we'll leave it at that..

 

[wendymac]

I agree 100! Well said! :aktion033: Just because a horse has a show record doesn't necessarily mean it's better than a horse that's never stepped foot in a show ring. For some, showing isn't something they want to do. While it's great that people are showing (and I'm a show person, but will probably never step foot in an AMHA/AMHR show), a good horse is a good horse...show points/titles or not. And with showing, it's mostly politics anyway...so what's winning isn't necessarily the cream of the crop.

BUT! I have seen a LOT of stallions (mostly ones that aren't showing) that shouldn't be stallions. Poor conformation, average babies, etc. What I've found even more ironic is some of those people are people that tell other people to geld their stallion. Many people are barn blind, but I'm sure not going to tell them, "Hey, you should geld your stallion."

I have a stallion, and I have two mares. I'm going to breed, but only for myself and my family. If someone wants to buy a horse from me, fine. If not, they'll live here. Thank goodness we have a lot of room here.

 

[jjnov]

I 2nd that! I love to breed minis, for the births and the babies, something about them has a special wram place in my heart. I will admit, next year will be my stallion's first baby, he may not look the best, as he was attacked by dogs and has scars on his neck, and then this past fall, he false nostrils collapsed, and he has surgery. Yes, he sounds like he is snoring sometimes, and his nose isnt perfectly round, but the surgery also threw his bite off. It was PERFECT before. BUT he is still a great guy, has good appy bloodlines, and i CANT wait to see what he will throw! My stallion may not look pretty now, but he did last spring before it poured down on him

 

[CyndiD]

I agree with most everything you said...but tell me why or HOW to deal with people that like to cause trouble.

I lost a foal recently and heard from sources that the particular line had reproductive trouble...whats up with that??? :no:

I too like to raise what I like, and I DO take good care of them and enjoy them and share them...so...how do I deal with people who say things like that?? Ignore it??

I sure would like some ideas...has this ever happened to you??

 

[Reijel's Mom]

If there weren't so many horses in rescue or going through local auctions as weanlings and selling for almost nothing (if they sell at all) I would agree... I WANT to agree because deep in my heart more then anything I WANT to breed and I just can't afford a really fine quality herd. But I just can't look at the horses in need of homes and breed without feeling terribly guilty. If I breed it wouldn't be to sell, it would be to add another tiny horse to my family... but how can I justify that when I can just go to the auction, pay $25 for a weanling of the same quality I could produce or better, and save it from god only knows what horrors? I can't justify that. Not for myself.

I'd have to agree with your reasoning (not that I'm saying I will NEVER breed a horse because quite honestly I probably will someday, for a keeper for myself, or at least rescue a pregnant mare). I would like to hope that at least some of those folks that are quick to point out to others that a certain animal shouldn't be bred are doing it with this type of reasoning in mind. There is no absolute guarantee that even high quality stock won't end up in bad places someday, but let's face it, it's at least a little less likely.

 

[Sunshine Acres]

Wow, I am in some agreement with your post and what others have had to say as well. I do agree you should like what is in your pastures, I feel for the most part they are all eye candy!

We can all agree that there are way to many dogs and cats being born flooding the market and the humane societies, with 1,000 ok maybe 100,000's that are put to death every year, and some I am sure are registered, and some I am sure that some breeder thought were wonderful and absolutely beautiful, so thier bred thier parents again and again and again, and continued to sell. Now lets look at this in the horse relm, thank god one breeding a year only produces on foal a year, but one stallion can produce 200 foals a year if so be it. And yes they are all going to be cute when they are born, no different than a cute little fuzzy puppy or kitten.

However I can honestly not understand when someone says they raise and breed becuase they just love the foaling experience. Let me tell you, if you love and cherrish your horses, you would be watching them on camera, wearing monitors, in essence keeping you awake for 30 plus days, with no sleep just to experience the joy of finding a dead foal in a sack, or going through a horrible dystocia, loosing your mare, having a dummy foal, or how about when the mare foals early no one is there assisting and wammo dead baby. How one earth can this be fun or becuase you love your horses so dearly.

And yeah sure you are perfectly happy with breeding 10-20 horses a year, loose one or 2 who cares, and then turn around and sell them for $500 and you are happy you just made feed money.

As for the showing part, if you are so in love with the breed, then why would you not want to know if your animal fits the breed standard. I don't think that everyone is showing simply to win a big title, but perhaps they want to know if their horse measures up to the current Miniature standard. If I was breeding 3 legged dogs and saying that they are wonderful becuase they are a diamond in the rough, I can assure you that people who seriously breed dogs would be very offended.

How many horses have you bred that have ended up in an auction or slaughter house? Well you wouldn't know that becuase how on earth can you keep track of your horses that you breed and sell every year. Now I do realize that people breed or thier own enjoyment and are planning to keep them, I am not critisizing those few. Really not critisizing anyone just giving MY OPINION, just like the orignal poster.

If we don't stop breeding willy nilly because we like it what is going to happen to all the horses and all thier offspring and all thier offspring. Why do we have to be a breed that is only about breeding? Other breeds have made the same mistake. We can all justify why we do it, but at some point when does the responsibility issue come in.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I agree with most everything you said...but tell me why or HOW to deal with people that like to cause trouble.

I lost a foal recently and heard from sources that the particular line had reproductive trouble...whats up with that??? :no:

Not knowing the horse or the lines you are referring to I would say I dont know that I would think this person is a trouble maker there are lines that many seem to feel have some repro issues or some lines that have height issues, some lines that drop testicles later , some that grow fast..

I am not so sure I would dismiss someone saying something like that. For me personally it would be something I would try and research and if the incident of trouble is even slightly more then "average" i would not breed that line anymore BUT that is JMO

 

[Hosscrazy]

I hope people are enjoying their minis as much as I do mine, even if they are not national champions, but beloved companions and pets, and probably many with excellent conformation also.

I could not have said it better, Susan!!!

Liz R.