Kicking

[lucky seven]

Thanks to all who gave us a different view of why our mini's show their butt to us. Whenever seven turned his back to me I would get defensive and yell and give him a swat because I thought he would automatically try to kick when he backed into me. After reading these posts I just pushed him to one side and kept going about my duties with him in his stall and he ignored me. Now he moves to one side and gives me all the space I need and more. And, our relationship has improved dramatically as well. He is turning into a love bug now that I am no longer yelling at him.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Oh RESULT!!! Yes, we can change the way people see things, we just need to do it one person at a time!

Well done, I hope your relationship with him continues to get stronger.

 

[shalakominiatureshowhorses]

I agree with the no punishing fear or scratches, though my previous post doesnt exactly help my case. But, i think that you two are new to eachother, so he is testing you. Devil did this ALL the time, and still does sometimes. You can tell with him. He usually would do this after he would roughhouse with Jazzy. I think he was just mistaking me for a playmate, ill play but not with my heels or my butt LOL. He would also do this at feeding. He would swing his butt, pin his ears and back up into you. A friend of mine actually got pegged by him when she was helping me feed, and that was the end of it. Thats when i brought the crop out and my low voice, and i didnt have to do it often before he got the message. Now, you can hug him and stuff while he is eating and he is fine. I think in your case, he feels like a big shot because he can fight with the older one, now he is seeing if your going to be someone he can take over too. Well, hopefully that wont happen! You know your horses actions better then any of us do, so do what you have to do!!!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

To reiterate....Turning the backside on someone is not an aggressive act.

Horses are not usually aggressive anyway.

Turning the rear is a defensive act- it may, occasionally, turn into a situation where the horse kicks, normally in self defense because it feels it is being threatened. This normally happens when the horse cannot get away from the situation that is worrying it.

This can lead to a situation where the horse will kick first, in this sort of situation, and find out later if it was, in fact, being threatened. This is still not an aggressive act.

Horses do appear to be , occasionally and very rarely, actually aggressive, this is usually the end result of the situation shown above, where the horse has found, sometimes over a number of years, that it just has to prevent people getting near to it or it will get hurt or badly used.

This is still not true aggression but can be dangerous and cannot be allowed to continue- I do not think I would use aggression to attempt to rectify it, though, I think I should use positive reinforcement to get the horse to turn towards me- then it cannot kick me.

In my whole life I have only ever known two really aggressive horse- one was a very spoilt stallion who had never been allowed to socialise with horses at all- he was cured by gelding him and introducing him to a gelding band, and also, of course, some very firm handling. He was 15.2 hh so it was no small task.

The other was an Irish Draught mare, 16.2hh of solid, chilling, anger and spite. After she had kicked the wall out of her yard when my friend clapped her hands at her we had her shot.......that was a dangerous horse, and very probably had a brain tumour growing.

Turning the rear on an unknown perceived threat is normal horse behaviour.

Edited for spelling....again!!

 

[Diva's Girl]

I agree with the rump turning to not being naturally aggressive.

That is why I said earlier to read your horse carefully. Diva came from a pet home and had a lot of bad habits. One of which was stomping on your feet or threatening(Sometimes actually kicking out) with her back end. I usually just told her to move over and made her rump face away from me until she got the idea that it wasn't a good thing. I have a feeling that she had turned her rump towards her old owners for pats and it was handled wrong to the point where she would try to kick. Now the only time she swings her but to me is to get scratched or to pretend that she is ignoring me, lol. I have only had Diva for four months now and we are getting better all the time.

I'm so glad your horse is doing better! Keep building your bond with him and he will be more and more willing to please you.

 

[hsrascal]

This has been a very interesting thread! I have a mini who turns his butt to me out of fear, and I wasn't sure how to deal with it. Glad to see lots of suggestions here.

 

[Scooter]

This is so helpful.

I had noticed my wee guy turning his butt to me (but not backing into me) and thought it was a kinda "I'm not pleased with you so I'll just ignore you" thing. He is inclined to be a bit bitey at the moment and every time I see his lip curling to bite me (he seems to have a thing about boots) I say "ah AH" sharply and he stops but after it happens a few times in a row I get the butt treatment. I havn't smacked him apart from a couple of times when I wasn't watching and he managed to get a bite. It's not a hard nasty bite - more of a "what does these boots taste like" bite - but a bite is a bite and I need to get the habit stopped.

At the risk of sounding ridiculous

, do horses "teeth"? I know dogs do...

 

[Diva's Girl]

Horses crib, which it sort of like teething but not, when they are bored or hungry but I'm not sure about teething.

I have never heard of a horse 'Teething' like a puppy does. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm still fairly new to horses and learning myself. There is no stupid question except the one that isn't asked.

 

[Rhondaalaska]

I know that they have baby teeth, and that they fall out when thier adult teeth come in, but I don't know about teething.

I have aways found horses like forever two year olds everything has to go in the mouth to see what it is. I remember our big horses doing it and our ponys from when I was growing up. I know diva has to taste all new things. She expecialy likes my shovels when I am cleaning her padock. But anything new watch out she will have to see what it is. She doesn't bite or try to just if you put somethining down and it is new chances are it will be moved because she has tasted it and may have knocked it down or if light than carried it bit from where you put it. Example brushes, hats, ropes, ect.

 

[AngC]

Thank you so much for the reasons that a horse would swing his rear end around.

My guy has kicked me once--on day 2 of bringing him here--due to my error. I toodled up behind him without paying attention and he nailed me on the tibia. I was purple from knee to ankle and was wondering whether a bone was broken for a few days.

Since then he's suffered an eye injury; and at time of treatment I learned he also had cataracts. He's now blind, errrrrr... visually impaired. Once he healed, I noticed that he'd swing his rear end around when we were in the stall. It was a little scary since he'd nailed me before. But I also had the feeling that he was just thrashing around to find me and use his nose to "see" me. I didn't know how to handle it, so thanks; that really made sense.

 

[jaymie124]

I have had a few different horses come to me with little to no human interaction previously. They have also been my only kickers. I believe that it was do to them trying to run in fear of not trusting me(the human)enough. Horses point their heads in the direction they will head, they can't run backwards to well now can they? I have had one aggressive kicker who did it because she thought she was boss. I have learned from experience that you find out why they are kicking/turning. Is it fear? Is it in aggressive manner? Is it because they can't run so their next instinct is to fight? Watch the whole horse before, during, and after that booty swings towards you.

A frightened, un trusting horse will not take its eyes off of you. They generally hold their head up to watch you better and their tail clamps down and tend to squat just a little bit.

A horse with kicking intended will tuck his head down ears pinned back and won't be nearly as tense the tail will probably be switching and their feet will be pointed towards you more than their head is pointing AWAY. When reading your horses body language its easy to get focused on whats nearest or must upsetting to us. If it is a trust issue I will just speak to the horse and hold still making no movements to help that horse relax to the point of allowing me to rub, love, and brush him. Outside of the situation I will strive to earn his trust possibly putting us in some learning situations walking over boards or even just leading more. Once the horse willingly follows me without a rope I know I have his trust.

If it is an attitude issue I will immediately catch the horse, if possible, and reset the scenario that caused the kicking signs-but with a halter and lead attached. When rear turns towards me I pull their head to face me or give a firm tug, not a rough jerk! If this does not help I will hold the rope firmly in my left hand facing their left side and the tail of the rope in my right hand. When that booty starts to come I swing the rope towards their left hip and apply pressure with my left hand so they turn in circles until I allow them to stop- keeping myself nearest their head. I don't like to "pop" horses with anything or for any reason.

Normally once they get the idea that "I move my booty I have to move my feet" they tend to be more willing to have their nose greeting you. Praise with every little step of progress when they move that hip away, praise! If they move it towards you just move it away and make it unpleasant for it to be there. Horses are very smart creatures they learn quickly when we make it easy to learn.

Just something I've learned from experience and thought it would go nicely with all these other wonderful ways

each situation is different but we can prepare ourselves by learning as much as we can and seeing what works for us.