Miniature types

[disneyhorse]

I hope Jennifer of Sweetopal Miniatures/Shetlands doesn't mind me posting a picture... but THIS is the horse that I think exemplifies the "refined Shetland look" that is popular right now. After all... this is the 2006 National Grand Champion Stallion. This is "BHR JCs Geshan" and he is a five or six year old breeding stallion... so he's definitely mature! This is what the QH type is NOT.

Many of the horses winning at Nationals today have/ are Shetland ponies. Geshan is a 36" shetland pony. Here, the "American" shetland is leggy, refined, upright, and has motion. Those are the things that mini breeders want to bring in lately. If you put the majority of "QH type" or "Arab type" minis right next to him, you can see how heavy boned with a low set neck they look!

Andrea

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Andrea I like that horse a lot- I have no problem with that type at all.

BUT he is not what we call a Shetland- I would think an injection of that sort of blood would do good.

If the people that thought they had "arab" type Minis would just look at a picture of an Arab............

Because short stocky bodies and pony heads does not do it for this one time Arab breeder.

 

[user 488]

I have always found it interesting in the minis that many of the minis referred to as "refined" are very often horses that are 3 years of age or much younger. As they mature into what I consider adulthood many of them change in body shape and of course the weight change as they mature also impact on their "look".

There are a few things I really agree with on this thread and one is the above statement. Everyone is talking about "refined". In all honesty there are not many that hold that "refinement" into adulthood.

I see where many think there young stock looks refined, but I do not think they know the true meaning of the word refinement. Now that is not ALL minis because I have seen some gorgeous examples of Miniature Horses without all the "typical" miniature faults like low set thick necks, long backs, and the poor back ends with legs so camped out behind or straight in the stifle that I wonder how they get through life........

Be a lot different if these were riding animals as they would break down before they had a chance to get going.

If the people that thought they had "Arab" type Minis would just look at a picture of an Arab............Because short stocky bodies and pony heads does not do it for this one time Arab breeder.

Again, I have to agree. Making an excellent living owning and showing Arabs I hardly see any miniatures that look like Arabs. Like Jane said..........more pony type and pony headed. Some may resemble Arabs to those that have really never been around Arabs but that is about it.

I guess you have to put them in some kind of categories seeing that there are so many different "types". But I often seen some call theirs QH or Morgan "types" when all they really have is a very ill conformed mini. Much too thick and course with a low tail set. This is not to say that includes all.....some are very nice. But I do wish people would just be proud of the fact that they own Miniatures and not try to compare them to another breed.

All and all I see a tremendous improvement in the quality of the breed over the last 10 years. Some of the people here on this Forum have really upgraded their stock and I really admire them and some of the breeders too.

 

[miniwhinny]

THIS IS equine perfection to me (sorry those on dial up)

Spanish conformation

Check out the conformation of the horse in this video ( not the actual contents of the video). After owning and breeding CelticIberian breeds the Spanish conformation (what the QH descended from) to me IS the epitomy of a sexy horse

: :aktion033: . This is what I will breed for. It's the total opposite of Geshan so if that's what's in the show ring - guess I won't be showing

:. A shorter powerful neck, short back, awesome rounded croup, medium to low set tail so that a horse can really get under himself. Powerful hocks. Well muscled. Oh this type give me goosbumps *grin* and is what I buy for and breed for. What's nice about the mini's is that this type is out there.

 

[Jill]

I agree 100% that weanlings and yearlings appear much finer boned / refined than that horse will at maturity. Just like not many of us are as dainty now as we were at 13 :bgrin

But, the flip side is worth pointing out -- and that is that when you're looking at a foal (and aren't they all cute?), and you see a weanling or a yearling that looks stocky and thick with stubby legs and a fat neck, try and project that look forward! They won't do anything but get "thicker".

 

[user 488]

But, the flip side is worth pointing out -- and that is that when you're looking at a foal (and aren't they all cute?), and you see a weanling or a yearling that looks stocky and thick with stubby legs and a fat neck, try and project that look forward! They won't do anything but get "thicker".

Exactly Jill. They certainly will never look like anything but dumpy, thick little horses and I think if you are breeding you owe it to the breed to try to breed more for what the "Standard of Perfection" calls for rather than what TYPE appeals to you best. Now I know it's a free country and people can breed whatever they want but I think you are just adding to the huge problem of poor quality miniatures out there that are for sale if you don't at least TRY keep to the breed standard. If you want a horse that looks like something else.......then go buy that breed! But I think that is a whole other topic......one of which we have discussed many times.

 

[Warpony]

THIS IS equine perfection to me (sorry those on dial up)

Spanish conformation

Check out the conformation of the horse in this video ( not the actual contents of the video). After owning and breeding CelticIberian breeds the Spanish conformation (what the QH descended from) to me IS the epitomy of a sexy horse

: :aktion033: . This is what I will breed for. It's the total opposite of Geshan so if that's what's in the show ring - guess I won't be showing

:. A shorter powerful neck, short back, awesome rounded croup, medium to low set tail so that a horse can really get under himself. Powerful hocks. Well muscled. Oh this type give me goosbumps *grin* and is what I buy for and breed for. What's nice about the mini's is that this type is out there.

I like the same thing. I'm not a breeder but when I go looking to buy a horse I want a little fellow who looks like that.

 

[Jill]

Yep, Carol! I agree. I call them pork chop horses. They are cute, nothing "wrong" with them but it's not anything I'd try and produce. It's really serious business in my heart. Because the horses may be alive for 30 or more years and it's not right to take it lightly. But, the problems in minis go beyond the in style type when we've got people breeding horses how have true conformation problems. I don't know of any other horse breed where so many owners are also "breeders".

 

[Buckskin gal]

My wish is the same as Carols "But I do wish people would just be proud of the fact that they own Miniatures and not try to compare them to another breed. " If we concentrate on good conformation and the Standard rather than some fad for the day I think our minis will be better off for it.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

While I agree the standard is pretty broad and really just gives you a sound conformationally correct horse other then that it is anything goes even down to color so of course there will always be many different "types"

 

[susanne]

Does anyone remember a few months back when we had a thread asking to define "refined?" Definitions ranged from delicate bones to holding out one's pinky when drinking one's tea!

Is it any wonder we can't agree on different types?

I so agree that typing pretty much in the eye of the beholder. Geshan is probably the only here that is of the type defined -- Shetland. I would also describe Prince -- Mountain Meadows Special Express -- as more or less an Arab in type, but even that is a stretch.

This is especially true with the so-called QH types -- I've yet to see a mini that even looks close! Of course, photos can lie, and sometimes one gets an impression that does not come across onscreen, but still...

As for the pencil heads -- when I got into minis and first posted on this forum, I complained about what I called "pencil heads"...yet I wa describing MINIS. I saw many of them, more from the lesser farms than from the best examples.

I do not see this type as representative of Shetlands at all...at least not the finest examples.

And speaking of the obvious (no offense Jane), we know that the American Shetland is a totally different breed...it's been around for a very long time, so I think that one is a bit redundant..

But overall, the defining of types is pointless. A good horse is a good horse, PERIOD.

 

[Dontworrybeappy]

I just don't see the assorted other "breeds" when I look at Minis... like ALL of Jills - they are all fantastic horses, Jill - but they all look like "Miniature horse type" horses to me!

In fact, when compared to others in this thread, Jill's horses are very consistent to each other - you can tell she has "an eye" for what she loves and she's collected horses that appeal to her eye! (The mark of any good breeder, IMHO!)

I'm afraid that I do not follow the "fads" when breeding any animal... for the last 30 years or so I've looked at breeding stock with these criteria in mind. (not necessarily in order....)

Most important features:

Conformation (including legs, soundness, teeth, etc.)

Balance (includes bone, proportions)

Disposition (If it isn't kind and willing - why perpetuate it?)

Correct breed type (Arab looking Arabs, etc.)

 

[Jill]

Karen --

Thank you so much!!!

I sure do admire your appy boy and have a spotted lady who'd love to spend some QT with him if not for living on oposite coasts.

Jill

 

[RockRiverTiff]

This has been a great thread! It's always nice to see all sides well-informed--means I learn something new too (and sometimes even change my opinion).

I also worry about people getting so caught up in "types" that they forego what should be the greater concern--overall quality. In some rare cases even basic soundness seems to be sacrificed by people pursuing extremes. It's not uncommon that I see people posting animals as exemplary because of one trait--look at its beautiful eye, head, neck, etc--and the rationale is that that one asset negates its being cow-hocked or ewe-necked or club-footed. I'm not saying we should all be breeding plain animals, but there seems to be a trend toward breeding for a couple great features vs an altogether good horse.

Anyway, we've shown Quarter Horses and Arabians too, so it's hard for me to make a comparison between our minis and our big horses, but the big guys make a great reference point when I'm critiquing the minis on proportion.

 

[Brandi*]

Well im not going to "name types" as such as everyone has there own opionion and im not to sure what these would come under

but these are my different "types" of horses that i own ...

7yr stallion

3yr old mare

2year old mare

WOW your stallion is Beautiful!!!!

 

[Jill]

It is interesting to read that some people worry that type will come before good conformation. Now that it's been "said", I see that's a possible concern. For me, before I got my first mini, I already knew about the basics of good conformation... I knew straight, properly conformed legs, good feet and good bites. What was hard for me to comprehend at first was type. I did not always understand that in the halter class, it's more than just correct conformation (but conformation is, of course, the starting point). That was something it took me over a year to get my brain around, as I kept feeling so bad knowing that my show horse at the time was "correct" yet didn't get as many 1sts as I wanted :bgrin But, now that the point's been made -- I see it as a concern, too. Just think of how many people "only" see color.

 

[Fantasia]

WELL SAID JILL! I have a mare in my paddock with the straightest back end on her, beautiful flowing movement and fantastic colour. She has done extremely well in the ring under conformation judges (including taking Champions over her larger cousins)- but put her under a judge who only likes pretty heads - she was shown the gate!

I've had comments from a non-miniature judge that she was fantastically put together - yet because she doesn't fit the "type" of modern fashion, susposedly she's not good enough????

Don't think so.

 

[countrycharm]

WOW your stallion is Beautiful!!!!

Thanks

i love him to bits

Jill great point, one i think is hapening a little to often!! "dont judge a mini by its colour"

And speaking of the obvious (no offense Jane), we know that the American Shetland is a totally different breed...it's been around for a very long time, so I think that one is a bit redundant..

Susanne not meaning anything at all with this reply

but i did want to add i never ever new about these shetlands untill i came on this website and i have been riding and breeding and reading books etc for over 14 years lol so that makes me a learner though but i just was amazed when i seen these shetlands on here we have nothing like that in NZ

 

[~Palomino~]

First of all countrycharm I love your stallion... That is the kind of mini I personly like... GORGEOUS upright head... just a fancy little guy!

I personly think the more refined ones are GORGEOUS... But when is it time to STOP. Someday these horses are gonna break lol! I personly like my little mare Rosie! I like her conformation... I just wish she had a shorter/dished head! I think she has good conformation but yet if I put her in a cart she could pull me and not break in half!

And I still think Buckeroo is in my opinion the beautifullest mini out there! I also like the Bay Prince!

BTW beautifull horses everyone!

Gage

 

[MidnightStarr]

Well im not going to "name types" as such as everyone has there own opionion and im not to sure what these would come under

but these are my different "types" of horses that i own ...

7yr stallion

3yr old mare

2year old mare

WOW your stallion is Beautiful!!!!

I would like to second that!!!

What an awesome picture too!!!

--kaylin