Minimally expressed dwarf being bred...advice

[Horse Love]

Okay so long story *somewhat* short, I have a friend who picked up a 24 inch minimally expressed dwarf mare from a local auction... she is about 4 years old. She has her with 2 other mini stallions... a 34 inch and a 37.5 inch. Theres also a mini donkey jack with them. Shes had her for roughly a year and hasnt been bred(she was bought with the 34 inch stallion). Her vet told her 2 stallions were too big to breed her so last week she went back to the auction and ended up with a supposedly 22 inch stallion(which I dont know if he is a dwarf) and is determined to breed this mare(who I think is sterile after being with all those studs so long). Now, as a very small breeder with a pair of quality, papered miniatures I don't agree with any of this grade breeding, especially passing along the dwarfism genes. I tried to gently explain to her about the possibility of a complicated pregnancy, a dwarf foal, expensive vet bills, etc. She won't listen to any of it and she said for $150 she can have a vet help her mini during labor. She seems to think this dwarfism is a GREAT thing and people will want to buy the foal because its SOOO small. At this point I don't know what to do... or what to say. I don't want her to endanger the mini mare and add more dwarf gene carriers to the world. Opinions please?

 

[Windhaven]

Well unfortunately, you can't help people that don't want help or think they know it all. Yes the animals are the ones who pay the price.

Hopefully this little mare is sterile. That is the only thing that is going to save her at this point.

Does this lady have internet? If so, have you told her about this forum board?

Also, I think she really is going to be surprised when the vet bill is NOT $150, and more than likely exceeds $500 for extracting a foal that is to big. Or after the big bill ends up loosing both. Also, might tell her that many dwarfs get stuck because of the misshapped head, body and limbs and she could loose both the mare and foal.

Suggest that she gets the mini foaling video and talk to more breeders.

 

[Mini~Madness]

Unfortunately stupid is a disease that can't be cured.

(null)

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

A dwarf foal equals thousands of dollars in medical care and likely a painful life for the animal. Does she care about the pain and suffering of the animal? Does she want to risk death for her mare? Because MANY mares die from birthing a dwarf.

I'll be praying for that mare.

 

[minisch]

I was going to reply, but all I will start ranting and go off on a tangent. Just one word "IDIOT" There, I'm done

 

[HGFarm]

I am with minisch!! Good advice by windhaven and totally agree with StarRidgeAcres- they can be a medical nightmare- if they live past the first day or two.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

You could maybe suggest that instead of wasting her money on studs that may not be able to impregnate her mare, she could buy another small mare to breed. Then maybe offer to go with her to pick one out?

 

[REO]

24" mare? The poor thing! It's a wonder she wasn't killed by the jack and big mini stallions!

As far as I'm concerned, the mare has a death sentance being owned by such an owner.

 

[bevann]

You can't fix STUPID.Your only chance might be if you know her vet and maybe the vet can talk some sense into her,but I really doubt it.Sounds like she has already made up her mind to do this.Maybe all will be sterile and be lucky.

 

[Marty]

What this person needs is to be educated on what she is doing. If you can talk her into signing up on the LB forum here, I'm sure everyone here would be more than happy to play nice and give her the information she needs to make a proper decision. If she is a true horse lover, she will want the very best for her horses and will come. There are enough people here that will properly welcome her and help.

 

[Jill]

Thats's awful. The vet being there is a long shot unless the mare is boarded with the vet for foaling. If all goes well with delivery, the foal would be born before the vet coyld arrive (15 mi.utes of active labor usualky is the max) If there's a problem, the mare's life is in jeopardy even with a vet in attendance. Your friend sounds like she's both selfish and under educated in this situation.

 

[MindyLee]

Ill say it!

I want to smack folks who think like this!

There's one here to that has a stud who throws dwarfs but dont look dwarf himself. Shes stands him to stud and folks breed to him. Stallion owner blams all the mares for the dwarfs, not him!

 

[mdegner]

Is your friend open to some education? Could you pull up pics and stories from the internet of dwarfs and show her the facts about the difficult lives these animals face?

I don't know, it seems a losing battle at times. Heard recently from someone who went to a prominent sale and the highest selling horse was a dwarf who went for over 5K. This sale was full of top of the line horses with outstanding bloodlines........

 

[littlehoof]

I think she should be educated one what she is doing!! If she still insisted on breeding them, she should be charged with animal abuse!!!!

 

[Horse Love]

Thanks so much for your input. Yes she is being VERY stupid about this whole situation. I think she was inspired by a local breeding farm that sells dwarfs for thousands of dollars and she is willing to put her mare in jeopardy to get that kind of money for the foal. She is saying that "she read up on the internet that since the stallion is smaller the mare should be fine"...

I am going to continue to try to talk her out of it again... and I know this sounds mean but if she does follow through with this, and the mare isnt sterile, I really hope the foal dies...so it ends its suffering early, and she will finally understand that dwarfism is NOT a good thing! Feel free to post any other input, I will keep you all updated!

 

[Horse Love]

And what makes it worse is that she is 16(I'm 14)... and her parents don't know much of anything about minis and especially dwarfism. Shes one of the typical "know it all" teenage girls who won't listen to a thing you say... and shes very defensive, but at this point I really don't care about the little friendship we have but the animals well being. I fear that she is going to rebel against whatever I say, just because she can, and breed anyway.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

Just curious what you mean by 'minimally expressed dwarf'? Perhaps she is barnblind and isn't seeing the dwarf characteristics that you are seeing? Afterall, people's opinions and classifications of dwarfism differ. I see pictures of horses wearing ribbons on this forum that I would classify as having minimal dwarf characteristics. Yet since they win pretty ribbons and are registered, they are obviously 'breeding quality' in the eyes of others.

Edited to add - I just saw that she's a teenager. That explains a lot about the situation.

 

[Horse Love]

We were at a local horse event and mini breeding farm told her that her mare was a minimally expressed dwarf and told her not to breed her to her big stallions because it could kill her. I suspected the same thing but I didnt say anything before because I wasnt absolutely sure(I havent seen too many dwarfs in person) but I know the auction she got her from is notorious for having dwarf like minis. Minimally expressed as in big belly, bug eyes, big dwarf head, little legs...but no health problems(yet) and isnt a serious case of dwarfism, according to this farm.

 

[REO]

I've dealt with foaling out 34" mares that had dwarves.

One was a bred mare we bought many years ago. We almost lost the mare, the foal was breech and cost us a TON in emergency vet fees. Foal was dead, thank God.

The other was a client brought their mare for me to foal out for them since they both worked. That was THE hardest foaling I ever had to deal with! Ears first, no legs, Head tucked down between front legs. Got it out alive but had to have the vet out to put it down. It tore my heart open having to hold down that dwarf baby while the vet stabbed a needle into it's heart (the other shots were not getting the job done)

I'm saying, if your friend thinks a 24" mare is going to live through that, and that it'll cost only $150, I think she's wrong.

I'm sorry if some here think I'm being too harsh, but what I care about is the LIVES of the animals and the SUFFERING they endure because of the stupidity of their owners! I care more about the lives of these dear creatures that we caused to be in this world than I care about some money hungry person's feelings.

Sorry, but that's how I feel. To me animals are feeling beings, not "oops, this one died so I'll just buy another one".

 

[MindyLee]

I've dealt with foaling out 34" mares that had dwarves.

I'm sorry if some here thing I'm being too harsh, but what I care about is the LIVES of the animals and the SUFFERING they endure because of the stupidity of their owners! I care more about the lives of these dear creatures that we caused to be in this world than I care about some money hungry person's feelings.

Sorry, but that's how I feel. To me animals are feeling beings, not "oops, this one died so I'll just buy another one".

I totally agree!