More Rule changes--to AMHA World Show Judging System

[Margo_C-T]

With show season ‘in full swing’, and lots of AMHA members showing at local shows (many in order to qualify for the World show), I was very interested when I found a new show rule to change the judging system at the World show in the 2008 Rulebook.

I have been devoting occasional time to closer reading of both the Rules and the published minutes of BOD meetings, but I can’t seem to find out for sure how this rule got passed? This made me wonder—did it go through the required steps, as published in the Rulebook? It seems to me that this rule makes a significant and serious change to the Judging system, so I also wonder how many members know about the new rule? (My 'focus' has always primarily been AMHA, and thus why I am vitally interested--but I have really have NO bias toward one organization vs the other...so no jumping to conclusions, please!)

I am asking for others to please help to research this rule, so we can find out how it actually got passed. But also—please, only FACTS here about the new rule, information that is found in the published minutes, and when/if found, what rules are required to be followed before a rule can be passed!

I certainly don’t wish for anyone to call this kind of discussion (serious, civil, fact-based, as it should and must be!) to be any sort of “bashing”-so please, everyone just all be SURE to stick to facts as reported by the BOD in minutes, and to the Rulebook!

Margo

 

[bingo]

What is the new rule?

 

[Kendra]

I remember reading it in the Miniature Horse World a while back, don't have the details, but my feeling is that it was all through the normal channels. I thought it sounded good, better than the current system of judging.

I never thought it was a good idea to throw out placings, though I realize the idea was to even out biases. I had one judge come up to me outside the show ring to tell me she'd placed me first in my class, likely because she knew her placing probably hadn't counted when I finished in third.

 

[sfmini]

This was to accomplish a few things:

Rotate judges so each one has a class to REST, these folks work long, hard, hours so they get to sit out a class and relax.

Allow us to hire fewer judges, saving money and thus prevent us from having to raise fees.

eliminate the old system of throwing out the high and low, thus making two judges work not count.

There were more, but I am in a class and need to focus NOW! OH!

 

[muffntuf]

It would be nice if the original poster could post the rule change they found so we could help research it.

Thanks much!

 

[Kim]

I knew about the change to the judging process - it was being discussed for quite some time before being passed. I think it will be a good change.

 

[Margo_C-T]

As the OP, a few additional comments--I was asking for greater information/insight about HOW this new judging rule was passed, not really about the 'reasons why', or for a debate on whether it is a 'good' or a 'bad' idea, in this particular thread(that's for a different discussion, in my view.)

All of this is available in the AMHA Rulebooks of '07 and '08, and then, there's 'official' minutes of BOD meetings on the AMHA website, and I presume, in the MHW (which I might remind you all, I no longer pay to subscribe to, after 21+ years...as a Lifetime member, I have the CHOICE....(I know it may seen 'old-fashioned', but I HIGHLY recommend obtaining a PRINTED Rulebook each year--and the AMHA is VERY prompt and effiecient to mail them out to members upon request!

!)

But for your convenience, here's what I have:

The 'old':

WS-025 JUDGING SYSTEM

A. The World Championship Show will have five (5) judges who will pick the Top Ten Horses in halter classes, using a five (5) judge system wherein both the high and low scores are deleted and the remaining three (3) scores will determine the Top Ten. These ten (10) horses will return to the ring and be placed for Champion, Reserve and down to tenth place. Exception: Any halter class with ten (10) entries or less at time entries close will have no preliminary judging. They will only be placed in the evening with the other Top Ten classes. Performance, Youth, Amateur, and specialty halter classes will be judged ONCE using the above decsribed five (5) judges accumulated system."

The 'new':

WS-025 JUDGING SYSTEM

A. "The World Championship Show will have 4 judges available for each judging team allowing a rotating system. Each class will be judged on a three (3) judge system in which the top ten horses in each class will be chosen. All three (3) scores will count equally. Example: The first class will be judged by Judge A, B & C, the second class will be judged by B, C & D, the third class will be judged by C, D & A, the fourth class will be judged by D, A & B, the fifth class will be judged by A, B,& C, etc. Judges will be assigned identification (A, B, C, D) by a drawing each morning before classes begin. All classes will be judged once using the three judge score system. Championship Classes will be judged by all four (4) judges.

 

[Becky]

This is from the AMHA website:

Selection of World Show Judges

Each year AMHA exhibitors anxiously await the announcement of the judges who have been selected to judge the next AMHA World Show. Even though a brief description of the procedure for selecting the World Show judges is outlined in the AMHA Show Rules, most exhibitors fail to fully understand the procedure or how "much time, effort and review" is put into this process.

The AMHA is blessed with an outstanding Licensed Officials Committee, comprised of AMHA members who are dedicated to providing only the best licensed officials to serve the AMHA membership. Just one of the many important and varied duties of the LOC is the selection of the World Show Judges. The LOC devotes considerable time to this process each summer, working approximately one and one half years before judges are needed for a future, scheduled World Show.

The selection process for World Show judges begins each year about May 1, when LOC members are provided a list of all AMHA judges who are eligible to be considered for judging the World Show the following year. This list includes all AMHA Carded judges who meet the criteria outlined in the AMHA LOC Rules (LO-039). All World Show judges must be Senior Judges or judges who have judged at least four AMHA approved shows. Judges who have judged at either of the two World Shows immediately preceding the World Show being planned are not eligible for consideration and are removed from the judges list sent to LOC members. Once this list is compiled, it is sent to members of the LOC for their use.

The LOC members are asked to select ten (10) names from the list of those eligible to judge the World Show. Their list of ten (10) judges should be their individual selections, selected independently and placed in order of preference, one through ten. The individual list from each of the eight (8) LOC members is completed and returned to the AMHA office. Upon receiving these lists, the top thirty judges' scores are computed. The computation of the top thirty (30) is strictly mathematical. Obviously there are always several judges' names who appear on more than one list. Out of a potential of 80 different judges names, the list usually reflects about 50 to 55 different judges.

At the June LOC meeting, in closed session, the list of the top 30 names is disclosed. This list is in alphabetical order only and the LOC is not advised as to the individual ranking of the top 30 judges. In a closed session committee meeting, they review this list checking the judges files if needed. This final LOC list then becomes the list of approved judge from which the World Show judges are contracted for the following year.

The judge with the highest total rating from the 30 individual judges' rating is contacted and asked to judge the World Show. The number two judge is contacted, etc. until ten judges and one alternate are contracted. Another rule which must be taken into consideration is LO-039-C which limits World Show judges to no more than two from any one state or province.

As soon as all World Show judge contracts are signed the Judges will be announced and placed on the AMHA website. Even the LOC members do not know who has been contracted for the World Show until the list is announced.

There is a very organized, confidential process that is used for selecting World Show judges. Thanks to the dedicated and unselfish work of the LOC, this process works well and World Show Judges are selected annually. These judges represent all breed types and all regions of AMHA and bring a multitude of talent and credentials to their judging assignments at the AMHA World Show.

Note: The Licensed Official Committee has submitted a rule amendment to the Show Rules Committee to change the 5 judge team system currently in place to a 4 judge rotating system. The Show Rules Committee will review the rule amendment during the June 2007 Committee Meeting.

If you will note the information in the highlighted paragraph was published last year. I don't have the minutes from the June 2007 Committe Meeting in front of me, but it appears that the rule change followed the appropriate steps.

As someone who actively shows and supports AMHA, I am very glad to see the change!

 

[sfmini]

Me too, also love the fact that they don't do a top ten and then bring them back. My stallion went from 4th in the top ten selection to 9th when they came back for placing. Would have rather had the 4th.

 

[muffntuf]

Ahh that adds much light to everything. Thanks for posting the old and new rules. It was hard to tell what rule change you were looking for information on without any reference to rule sections and numbers.

Thanks!

 

[Al B]

This request by the LOC committee was reviewed by the Show Rules Committee at the 2007 June meeting and passed. It was presented to the BOD at the following open Board meeting with the recommendation that it be passed on an emergency basis so that it could be implemented for the 2008 World show. The Board approved.

 

[Texasspook]

So I guess I need someone to help me understand how a 3 judge system is done?

Thanks!

 

[Margo_C-T]

With all due respect--As one who DID actively show for well over 20 years, in AMHA, and is still TRYING MIGHTILY to support the 'ideals' and tenets of AMHA, I believe I am entitled to make this kind of an inquiry.

I did not intend this thread to be a 'tutorial' about how the World judges are chosen, nor a debate about whether the change of judging systems is a good idea or a bad one--it well may be a good one--I haven't personally studied it yet, so haven't formed an opinion--but those are subjects for other threads, and simply not the subject of this one.

Al, thank you for your response! So we are to understand that it was the LOC committee who instigated this idea, and presented it to the BOD? Can you tell us WHY it was presented and regarded as an "emergency"? I recognize that it was 'desired' that it go into effect for the 2008 World Show, and another poster, a BOD member, has already listed several of the justifications for this change--which sound reasonable, to be sure. But, other such items are 'supposed' to go through the 60 day notification process, and then be voted up/down by 'the membership'(well, those in attendance at the following Annual Meeting), and THEN, it is the first of the NEXT year before that which was voted 'in' is to take effect. I would like very much to hear (from an Officer or BOD member) why this move was not yet another incidence of sidestepping the rights of members as outlined in AMHA's rules?

As someone who has DONE some judging, I certainly appreciate wanting to be kinder to the judges, and of COURSE, the desire of AMHA to save MONEY, but just do NOT see how that qualifies this change as an "emergency"?

It is frustrating, to put it mildly, that while members hoping to present items for Bylaw/Rule change consideration may have it HAMMERED into them that they MUST have every single t crossed and i dotted, AND have a 'solution' for every possible counter to their proposal, there is clear evidence (in the organization's own publications) that when certain 'other' proposals are put forth, some may well be (and expediciously!)passed with little or NO regard to what is required of others-and CLEARLY required by the organization's OWN rules!

Am I alone in feeling that there is something basically wrong with this picture?

Respectfully asked, and I hope, will be respectfully answered,

Margo

 

[Neil]

[...]

It seems to me that this rule makes a significant and serious change to the Judging system, so I also wonder how many members know about the new rule?

[...]

I knew about the new rule.

I attended the LOC meeting where the new rule was discussed and proposed. I also attended the General Membership meeting where the LOC presented the proposed new rule to the membership.

The revised WS Show Rule makes very good sense to me for a number of reasons.

 

[Neil]

You missed the point Neil

It is frustrating, to put it mildly, that while members hoping to present items for Bylaw/Rule change consideration may have it HAMMERED into them that they MUST have every single t crossed and i dotted, AND have a 'solution' for every possible counter to their proposal, there is clear evidence (in the organization's own publications) that when certain 'other' proposals are put forth, some may well be (and expediciously!)passed with little or NO regard to what is required of others-and CLEARLY required by the organization's OWN rules!

No Mary Lou -LB I did not miss the point. I chose not to comment about any of Margo's original posting except for one question that she asked. Margo asked "It seems to me that this rule makes a significant and serious change to the Judging system, so I also wonder how many members know about the new rule?" and I answered "I knew about the new rule." and went on to explain how I knew about the rule.

Please do not assume that because I did not comment about anything else in Margo's posting that I missed the point. I thought Margo was quite clear in her postings and I do get the point.

NOTE: The paragraph quoted above was not even in the posting to which I responding.

 

[R3]

The only two possible questions that I can see about this rule would be:

1. Did the LOC submit the proposed rule change before the end of the 2007 Meeting as required?

2. Did the Board have the power to implement the rule change sooner than January 2009?

If #1 was done, then the rule appears to have followed the complete path necessary for it to be passed as it was sent to the Show Rules committee and approved at the 2007 June meeting. It was approved by the Board of directors, and if I am reading it correctly (per Neil) it was presented at the 2008 Annual Meeting for a vote of the membership, and it was approved. Therefore it was a valid 'new' rule that under normal circumstances would have been implemented starting in January 2009.

It is at this point that the next question arises, did the Board exceed its authority in implementing the rule for the 2008 World Show?

These are all the rules that I could find regarding Show Rules and Regular rules.

The red highlighted areas are the ones that show that the Board does have powers over the rules. The blue highlight enumerates the powers the Board has, with a purple highlight of the area that I think they are using as their 'authority'. The green highlight is the only place where I see "exceptional circumstances" mentioned, and it has to do with 'non-amendment', not implementation dates.

According to the AMHA Rule book:

ARTICLE XIV - HORSE SHOWS

The Annual Meeting shall ratify the criteria for approving and

the policies for approved American Miniature Horse Shows,

and shall approve show rules, of which shall not be made a

part of the Bylaws, but shall be published in the Official Rule

Book of The American Miniature Horse Association, Inc. When

deemed necessary, the Board of Directors shall exercise their

power, upon any of the above rules and policies, as per Article

V, Section 3 (A).

ARTICLE XV - GENERAL RULES AND REGULATIONS

The Annual Meeting shall approve general rules and regulations,

which shall govern the members and the Association, on

all matters not contained in these Bylaws, but shall be published

in the Official Rule Book of The American Miniature

Horse Association, Inc. When deemed necessary, the Board of

Directors shall exercise their power, upon any of the above

rules and regulations, as per Article V, Section 3A.

ARTICLE V - CORPORATE POWER

Section 3, Powers of the Board of Directors

(A) Enumeration

The Board of Directors shall have the power and authority

to make, amend, repeal, and enforce such rules and

regulations, not contrary to law, the Articles of

Incorporation or these Bylaws, as they may deem expedient

and necessary concerning the conduct, management

and activities of the Association, including but not

limited to the setting and collection of dues and fees,

(excepting registration fees) regulations regarding stud

book, registration, the expenditures of money, the audit-

ing of books and records, the awarding of championships,

the conducting of shows, contests, exhibitions,

sales, social functions and other details relating to the

general purposes of the Association. All of the foregoing

are subject to revision or amendment by the members at

any regular or special meeting of the members provided

that written notice of any intention to revise or amend

said rule(s) has been published in the Miniature Horse

World or official correspondence at least sixty (60) days

in advance of that meeting. (Amended 6-7-03, effective 01-04)

ARTICLE XVI - AMENDMENT OF RULES

(C ) Implementation:

Those rules or amendments that have been ratified by

the membership at the Annual Meeting will go into effect

on January 1 in the proceeding year and the Rule Book

will be printed annually. (For example: If a rule was ratified

at the 2002 Annual Meeting, the rule will be placed

into effect on January 1, 2003).

(Amended 02-21-02, effective 01-03)

(Amended 02-20-04, effective 01-05)

(D) Period of Non-Amendment: A rule or regulation is not

subject to amendment by change, addition or repeal,

until it has been in force for at least two (2) calendar

years, which limitation can be waived by the Board of

Directors upon finding of exceptional circumstances

which (1) concern the safety, health, or well-being of the

horse and/or exhibitor, (2) materially benefits AMHA’s

programs or its financial stability, or (3) involves other

compelling circumstances.

So, it would appear to me that the portion of the rule they are using is, "The Board of Directors shall have the power and authority to make, amend, repeal, and enforce such rules and regulations, not contrary to law, the Articles of Incorporation or these Bylaws, as they may deem expedient and necessary concerning the conduct, management and activities of the Association, including ... the conducting of shows..."

(Edited to correct a typo, had 2008 June Meeting, and it should have been 2007 June meeting.)

 

[Neil]

The only two possible questions that I can see about this rule would be:

1. Did the LOC submit the proposed rule change before the end of the 2007 Meeting as required?

2. Did the Board have the power to implement the rule change sooner than January 2009?

If #1 was done, then the rule appears to have followed the complete path necessary for it to be passed as it was sent to the Show Rules committee and approved at the 2008 June meeting. It was approved by the Board of directors, and if I am reading it correctly (per Neil) it was presented at the 2008 Annual Meeting for a vote of the membership, and it was approved. Therefore it was a valid 'new' rule that under normal circumstances would have been implemented starting in January 2009.

The LOC presented their proposed Show Rule change at the Feb '07 Membership Meeting.

It is at this point that the next question arises, did the Board exceed its authority in implementing the rule for the 2008 World Show?

Looks to me that they did have the authority when you read:

ARTICLE XIV - HORSE SHOWS

The Annual Meeting shall ratify the criteria for approving and

the policies for approved American Miniature Horse Shows,

and shall approve show rules, of which shall not be made a

part of the Bylaws, but shall be published in the Official Rule

Book of The American Miniature Horse Association, Inc. When

deemed necessary, the Board of Directors shall exercise their

power, upon any of the above rules and policies, as per Article

V, Section 3 (A).

These are all the rules that I could find regarding Show Rules and Regular rules.

The red highlighted areas are the ones that show that the Board does have powers over the rules. The blue highlight enumerates the powers the Board has, with a purple highlight of the area that I think they are using as their 'authority'. The green highlight is the only place where I see "exceptional circumstances" mentioned, and it has to do with 'non-amendment', not implementation dates.

According to the AMHA Rule book:

ARTICLE XIV - HORSE SHOWS

The Annual Meeting shall ratify the criteria for approving and

the policies for approved American Miniature Horse Shows,

and shall approve show rules, of which shall not be made a

part of the Bylaws, but shall be published in the Official Rule

Book of The American Miniature Horse Association, Inc. When

deemed necessary, the Board of Directors shall exercise their

power, upon any of the above rules and policies, as per Article

V, Section 3 (A).

ARTICLE XV - GENERAL RULES AND REGULATIONS

The Annual Meeting shall approve general rules and regulations,

which shall govern the members and the Association, on

all matters not contained in these Bylaws, but shall be published

in the Official Rule Book of The American Miniature

Horse Association, Inc. When deemed necessary, the Board of

Directors shall exercise their power, upon any of the above

rules and regulations, as per Article V, Section 3A.

ARTICLE V - CORPORATE POWER

Section 3, Powers of the Board of Directors

(A) Enumeration

The Board of Directors shall have the power and authority

to make, amend, repeal, and enforce such rules and

regulations, not contrary to law, the Articles of

Incorporation or these Bylaws, as they may deem expedient

and necessary concerning the conduct, management

and activities of the Association, including but not

limited to the setting and collection of dues and fees,

(excepting registration fees) regulations regarding stud

book, registration, the expenditures of money, the audit-

ing of books and records, the awarding of championships,

the conducting of shows, contests, exhibitions,

sales, social functions and other details relating to the

general purposes of the Association. All of the foregoing

are subject to revision or amendment by the members at

any regular or special meeting of the members provided

that written notice of any intention to revise or amend

said rule(s) has been published in the Miniature Horse

World or official correspondence at least sixty (60) days

in advance of that meeting. (Amended 6-7-03, effective 01-04)

ARTICLE XVI - AMENDMENT OF RULES

(C ) Implementation:

Those rules or amendments that have been ratified by

the membership at the Annual Meeting will go into effect

on January 1 in the proceeding year and the Rule Book

will be printed annually. (For example: If a rule was ratified

at the 2002 Annual Meeting, the rule will be placed

into effect on January 1, 2003).

(Amended 02-21-02, effective 01-03)

(Amended 02-20-04, effective 01-05)

(D) Period of Non-Amendment: A rule or regulation is not

subject to amendment by change, addition or repeal,

until it has been in force for at least two (2) calendar

years, which limitation can be waived by the Board of

Directors upon finding of exceptional circumstances

which (1) concern the safety, health, or well-being of the

horse and/or exhibitor, (2) materially benefits AMHA’s

programs or its financial stability, or (3) involves other

compelling circumstances.

So, it would appear to me that the portion of the rule they are using is, "The Board of Directors shall have the power and authority to make, amend, repeal, and enforce such rules and regulations, not contrary to law, the Articles of Incorporation or these Bylaws, as they may deem expedient and necessary concerning the conduct, management and activities of the Association, including ... the conducting of shows..."

 

[Margo_C-T]

I am not 'computersavvy' enough to successfully'highlight' via different colors of ink-I tried, wasn't sure it would work, so will use all caps to indicate emphasis(before anyone wants to accuse me of 'shouting'...

,

)

I am reading the past couple of replies(R3, Neil) to say that you both apparently believe that THE REQUIREMENT OF PROPER NOTIFICATION is essentially MEANINGLESS (see: Article V,Corporate Powers, Sec. 3(A),the final sentence--Julie has reproduced it it her posting); and that the BOD can ignore it when something is ''deemed expedient [and /or]necessary", and also, that it is properly within their powers to do so--am I correct?

I am still hoping that someone IN AUTHORITY will answer about why this would have been considered an 'emergency', and WHY that would justify bypassing the notification requirement, and not allowing the issue to go to a vote of 'the membership', following directed protocol?

I have to say--I am increasingly finding it VERY disheartening that such vague and all-encompassing language in the Rules and Bylaws is apparently being used to create a situation where THE POWERS THAT BE ARE ESSENTIALLY FREE TO TAKE ANY ACTION THAT SUITS THEM, AT ANY TIME, WITH NO REAL EXPLANATION---yet at the same time, ordinary members are REQUIRED, BY THOSE SAME POWERS, to jump through a myriad of hoops to even have something presented for consideration....I am NOT against strict protocol requirements, IF THEY ARE TRULY DEMOCRATIC--meaning they apply evenly to EVERY MEMBER, including the elected 'officials'! It surely seems to me, as I look more closely at this, that this is NOT the case within our AMHA....

Of course, for anything to EVER change, a LOT of people have to CARE.....How many do?

Margo