More thoughts on dwarf Minis.

[Lizzie]

The recent discussion on dwarf Minis here, prompted me to do a little research. I found many dwarf Minis for sale, all over the net. I also noticed something else. A couple of people in the US, were constantly asking about those for sale and actually wanting more. Certainly their questions and posts about how they would keep them for ever and give them a loving home etc., sounded good. A little further digging, showed me that those wanting to purchase them, were also posting ads in other places, offering 'micro mini Pomeranians'. I think we all know that anyone selling such dogs, is a BYB and not doing right by the breed.

I admit, I have not (so far) seen this particular person selling dwarf Minis, but I have the strangest feeling, that they just might be buying up dwarfs to breed. They might be selling them in Mexico or other S. American countries, as pets or 'rare' breeding stock. One at least, does live on the border.

Anyway, this is just a thought on my part. Something to consider however, when one is trying to place a dwarf Mini. One cannot be too careful and should really investigate carefully, anyone asking about a dwarf. This especially if they ask if the breeder has others for sale.

Lizzie

 

[denielle johns]

I dont know alot about dwarfs just what I have been reading online. But to breed and try to produce dwarfs is awfull! If I had the money to care for one I would keep one but I would never buy one. They should be kept with there breeders or given away to people who can care for them properly!!!

 

[minifreishorsefarm]

The recent discussion on dwarf Minis here, prompted me to do a little research. I found many dwarf Minis for sale, all over the net. I also noticed something else. A couple of people in the US, were constantly asking about those for sale and actually wanting more. Certainly their questions and posts about how they would keep them for ever and give them a loving home etc., sounded good. A little further digging, showed me that those wanting to purchase them, were also posting ads in other places, offering 'micro mini Pomeranians'. I think we all know that anyone selling such dogs, is a BYB and not doing right by the breed.

Lizzie

I have seen ads for the micro minis but not for dwarfs. Where to you see these for sale? I am just curious to see it all in person. I have a friend that has a dwarf and takes him to nursing homes and other places and people are always asking her if he's for sale or if she has any more that are for sale and she has to set the record strait with them. The poor little guy barely gets around on his bad legs, I cant imagine why someone would find that appealing to be wanting more than one of.

Marsha

 

[LAminiatures]

I bought my dwarf 5 years ago. I had no intention of getting one but when I walked into this barn to look at another horse there he was very sick and depressed at 8 months old. I brought him home in my van that day. It was struggle for sure getting him healthy. It was months of respiratory problems along with parasites and plenty of farrier work.

It is upsetting that people would want to breed a dwarf as the outcome can be so heartbreaking. I would hope that people would geld these dwarfs before placing or selling them to anyone. I hope to find another one someday to be a buddy to my little Sam.

 

[Reble]

Seeing this topic come up so often,

Have to ask not sure if this is why they want dwarfs?

I am guessing a dwarf can have a foal born normal.

This might be the reason they want them to breed?

(being small)

Both stallion and mare have to have the dwarf gene to produce a dwarf, but is not always visual.

Than bred with a different mare or stallion can produce normal foals.

Just wondering why why someone would want to see these poor heart breaks struggle in life and suffer from such a hard life.

Bless the ones that do care and try to keep up with all medical problems, but hope at some point do not get neglected.

 

[MiLo Minis]

That would be just plain NOT good breeding practice. Purposefully breeding a major defect into your stock makes no sense to me. I realize that the original breeders of Miniature Horses way back did breed drawfism into our breed and we are now faced with the problem of trying to breed it back out. There is always some human out there that is willing to take the risks for quicker results equalling quicker gain but in this particular instance it is just abhorrent to me. Drawfs not only look awful but suffer miserably with arthritis and internal problems that we don't see just looking at them. Most of the dwarfs that I have met are depressed, uncomfortable and miserable even if they are receiving good care. Each and every time you bred that visual dwarf to another horse you would have a 50/50 chance of producing a dwarf and those are really not acceptable odds. Whether you are prepared to either care for that dwarf for the duration of its days or you are prepared to euthanize any dwarf foals produced I just think it is totally unethical to purposely produce animals that are going to live a life of suffering.I cant imagine why someone would find that appealing to be wanting EVEN one of. I find it rather interesting that people abhor the idea of breeding frame to frame because they might produce an animal that will suffer and die QUICKLY and yet there are those out there that are willing to breed and produce an animal that will suffer for YEARS!!!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

That would be just plain NOT good breeding practice. Purposefully breeding a major defect into your stock makes no sense to me. I realize that the original breeders of Miniature Horses way back did breed drawfism into our breed and we are now faced with the problem of trying to breed it back out. There is always some human out there that is willing to take the risks for quicker results equalling quicker gain but in this particular instance it is just abhorrent to me. Drawfs not only look awful but suffer miserably with arthritis and internal problems that we don't see just looking at them. Most of the dwarfs that I have met are depressed, uncomfortable and miserable even if they are receiving good care. Each and every time you bred that visual dwarf to another horse you would have a 50/50 chance of producing a dwarf and those are really not acceptable odds. Whether you are prepared to either care for that dwarf for the duration of its days or you are prepared to euthanize any dwarf foals produced I just think it is totally unethical to purposely produce animals that are going to live a life of suffering.I cant imagine why someone would find that appealing to be wanting EVEN one of. I find it rather interesting that people abhor the idea of breeding frame to frame because they might produce an animal that will suffer and die QUICKLY and yet there are those out there that are willing to breed and produce an animal that will suffer for YEARS!!!

While I agree 100% with everything you said, the bolded part really struck me. That is a great point! Why is that practice so broadly accepted as a no-no, but continuing to use a known dwarf producer in your herd somehow ok? Just makes my head hurt when I think about it.

 

[Lizzie]

I have seen ads for the micro minis but not for dwarfs. Where to you see these for sale? I am just curious to see it all in person. I have a friend that has a dwarf and takes him to nursing homes and other places and people are always asking her if he's for sale or if she has any more that are for sale and she has to set the record strait with them. The poor little guy barely gets around on his bad legs, I cant imagine why someone would find that appealing to be wanting more than one of.

Marsha

You'll have to do searches like I did. I googled Mini Dwarfs for sale and also looked through classified websites and all-breed forums. A few names kept popping up so I googled those. This is where I found the one person who also sells undersized Pomeraneans. They didn't seem to have any website. I never saw them enquiring about non-dwarfs. To keep dwarfs as healthy as possible, let alone many, it seems one would have to have an unlimited bank account. It just struck me as strange, that some are buying up dwarfs and as many as they can find. Not once did I see them ask what kind of dwarfism, the horse had. I also didn't seem them advertising dwarfs for sale. Who knows. Maybe I was completely wrong in my thinking, but it did set me thinking that just maybe, they are buying up dwarfs to breed.

Lizzie

 

[Tremor]

Seeing this topic come up so often,

Have to ask not sure if this is why they want dwarfs?

I am guessing a dwarf can have a foal born normal.

This might be the reason they want them to breed?

(being small)

Dwarves can have normal foals. I had a dwarf mare who ended up pregnant (inaduquant separation at the time) who we found was pregnant while she was foaling. She gave birth to a stillborn chestnut colt who was probably more than half her height. This same mare produced two dwarf foals that are now 25-27'' tall. This deceased colt would have surpassed 30'' most definitely. Probably even 32''.

 

[heartkranch]

Sadly every person wants to buy my dwarf before the horses they actually picked out.

She isn't for sale but I usually ask why they want her. They always say for breeding....

 

[Tremor]

Sadly every person wants to buy my dwarf before the horses they actually picked out.

She isn't for sale but I usually ask why they want her. They always say for breeding....

This is the number one reason why I never want to sell any of my dwarf females. (My male is gelded)

 

[heartkranch]

This is the number one reason why I never want to sell any of my dwarf females. (My male is gelded)

Same Reason here. She is so happy to just be around people. I get met at the gate every morning and night by her, and she helps my exercise the show horses. I didn't even register her because her point in life is to be my mascot and aisle cleaner. =)

 

[Lizzie]

Dwarves can have normal foals. I had a dwarf mare who ended up pregnant (inaduquant separation at the time) who we found was pregnant while she was foaling. She gave birth to a stillborn chestnut colt who was probably more than half her height. This same mare produced two dwarf foals that are now 25-27'' tall. This deceased colt would have surpassed 30'' most definitely. Probably even 32''.

Actually there have been a few known dwarfs, who have measured 26". Being extra tiny, isn't just the only sign of a possible dwarf.

Lizzie

 

[Riverrose28]

I wasn't going to but my heart tells me I must respond. In 2004 we breed my husbands favorite mare, maiden, to a 29" stallion that he paid a couple of thousand dollars for. In 2005 I assisted her to deliver a filly, a dwarf. Hubby had the stallion gelded and sold. When this filly was born she stood right up but couldn't seem to turn her really short neck in order to nurse. It was obvious that the mare loved her little baby and it was up to me to decide to put her down or try and save her. I milked the mare and fed the foal, the vet was called and we also started her on antibiotics as she hadn't nursed enough, and when the 12 hours passed, she tested just fine with colostrum levels, still couldn't figure out how to nurse on her own. She was kept on antibiotics for 10 days and the vet kept a watchful eye on her, the bill was over $1000. when all was said and done. This filly finally figured out how to nurse, eat, run and play. She is now seven years old. She has a really short neck, a bad bite that needs a dental every six months, a roached back, and looks like a little equine english bulldog. We never registered her, nor could we sell her, although everyone seems to want to buy her. She is the sweetest little girl, but does suffer from arthritis. Now after 7 years she sometimes has a hard time getting up, but still eats and drinks, and if you try to do something to her she doesn't want you to do, she will buck, run and play a game of catch me if you can. It takes three of us to trim her feet. We pick her up, put her on a comforter in the back of our polarias ranger, one of us holds her head and one of us holds the feet not being worked on, while hubby trims a hoof. She doesn't cycle as there are probably deformaties inside as well as out. She loves us, we love her, and when we feel she is suffering we will send her to heaven, in the meantime she loves life.

This is her at three days old, I have more pictures of her just not in photo bucket, I had to give her a chance to enjoy her life and could not have put her down when her mother loved her so, and she wanted to survive. Just like if I gave birth to a deformed child I would try to help them to survive. I know that some day she will not be with us, but during her time here she will be loved and cared for, but never bred.

 

[Genie]

I wasn't going to but my heart tells me I must respond. In 2004 we breed my husbands favorite mare, maiden, to a 29" stallion that he paid a couple of thousand dollars for. In 2005 I assisted her to deliver a filly, a dwarf. Hubby had the stallion gelded and sold. When this filly was born she stood right up but couldn't seem to turn her really short neck in order to nurse. It was obvious that the mare loved her little baby and it was up to me to decide to put her down or try and save her. I milked the mare and fed the foal, the vet was called and we also started her on antibiotics as she hadn't nursed enough, and when the 12 hours passed, she tested just fine with colostrum levels, still couldn't figure out how to nurse on her own. She was kept on antibiotics for 10 days and the vet kept a watchful eye on her, the bill was over $1000. when all was said and done. This filly finally figured out how to nurse, eat, run and play. She is now seven years old. She has a really short neck, a bad bite that needs a dental every six months, a roached back, and looks like a little equine english bulldog. We never registered her, nor could we sell her, although everyone seems to want to buy her. She is the sweetest little girl, but does suffer from arthritis. Now after 7 years she sometimes has a hard time getting up, but still eats and drinks, and if you try to do something to her she doesn't want you to do, she will buck, run and play a game of catch me if you can. It takes three of us to trim her feet. We pick her up, put her on a comforter in the back of our polarias ranger, one of us holds her head and one of us holds the feet not being worked on, while hubby trims a hoof. She doesn't cycle as there are probably deformaties inside as well as out. She loves us, we love her, and when we feel she is suffering we will send her to heaven, in the meantime she loves life.

This is her at three days old, I have more pictures of her just not in photo bucket, I had to give her a chance to enjoy her life and could not have put her down when her mother loved her so, and she wanted to survive. Just like if I gave birth to a deformed child I would try to help them to survive. I know that some day she will not be with us, but during her time here she will be loved and cared for, but never bred.

Yours is a very touching story. THank you for sharing

 

[Lizzie]

Even with the work, money and time involved, I really can see why those who have them, love them so.

Lizzie

 

[Reble]

I wasn't going to but my heart tells me I must respond. In 2004 we breed my husbands favorite mare, maiden, to a 29" stallion that he paid a couple of thousand dollars for. In 2005 I assisted her to deliver a filly, a dwarf. Hubby had the stallion gelded and sold.

Just wondering what did you do about the Mare, being both carry the dwarf gene?

 

[Riverrose28]

Just wondering what did you do about the Mare, being both carry the dwarf gene?

That is a good question. We still have her, she is my husbands favorite, and such a clown, and so amusing. she is not being breed, just loved. I want to add: this dwarf filly didn't ask to be born, I was responsable for her being brought into this world, since she was loved by her mom and had the will to survive I felt I needed to do everything possable to help her. I do realize she won't live as long as a normal mini, and does have problems, but she is not miserable or in pain, yet. When I say yet I mean now that she is 7 years old she is having some difficulties gettin up from laying down witch is an indecator of bad times to come. My vet keeps an eye on her and so far no indication of pain, other then mild arthritis, which I have myslef, so I can sypathize. I do think I am a responable breeder and would never pass this along to anyone. I am so honest, that my hubby gives me a hard time, but I feel it is the best way to live with myself.

 

[Reble]

That is a good question. We still have her, she is my husbands favorite, and such a clown, and so amusing. she is not being breed, just loved. I want to add: this dwarf filly didn't ask to be born, I was responsable for her being brought into this world, since she was loved by her mom and had the will to survive I felt I needed to do everything possable to help her. I do realize she won't live as long as a normal mini, and does have problems, but she is not miserable or in pain, yet. When I say yet I mean now that she is 7 years old she is having some difficulties gettin up from laying down witch is an indecator of bad times to come. My vet keeps an eye on her and so far no indication of pain, other then mild arthritis, which I have myslef, so I can sypathize. I do think I am a responable breeder and would never pass this along to anyone. I am so honest, that my hubby gives me a hard time, but I feel it is the best way to live with myself.

So nice to hear that

, you sure did what is best for both dam and stud.

Glad you are caring for the filly.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[horsenut50]

Dwarves can have normal foals. I had a dwarf mare who ended up pregnant (inaduquant separation at the time) who we found was pregnant while she was foaling. She gave birth to a stillborn chestnut colt who was probably more than half her height. This same mare produced two dwarf foals that are now 25-27'' tall. This deceased colt would have surpassed 30'' most definitely. Probably even 32''.

If this mare has also had two more dwarf foals,is she still being bred?