My Hyperbike is HERE!!!

[Carriage]

(I don't know you, Bob, but I like you. I'm glad it worked out for you, but....please don't do that again....

)

Myrna

Well I like you to.

My apologies for not doing a MythBuster disclaimer in my post. Please let me make ammends.

Do not do this at home, EVER.

Actually that represented the ONLY time in 23 years that I have done that. It was done for effect and was, again, very calculated. Knew my driver, knew my rig, knew the horse. I am pure Scot, meaning, I don't gamble in anything. I would absolutely NEVER jeopardize a driver or horse. (disclaimer.) I do not advocate doing this.

However as most of the post was chucked in favor of focusing on a single and I might add well known point (duh),

I will offer my sincerest apologies and withdraw.

 

[RhineStone]

However as most of the post was chucked in favor of focusing on a single and I might add well known point (duh),

I will offer my sincerest apologies and withdraw.

I didn't figure that was something that Bob did everyday. But from the questions that are asked on this forum, I know that there are EXTREME beginners that wouldn't get that. I wish that before anyone did anything with their mini (or big horse), they would ask themselves, "What happens if....(insert negative behavior here)." For example, if I lead my horse that is put to a cart, "What happens if he gets away from me?" If I am changing a part of the harness or cart, "What happens if my horse moves?" Just asking yourself this simple question would save a few of us A LOT of typing and people a lot of headaches, both literally and figuratively. Never assume that just because your horse hasn't done X that he won't in the future. He is still a horse. It's amazing the number of mini owners that think, "My horse would never do that...." Just because he is "little" doesn't mean he isn't dangerous.

To get back to the original topic of adjustments, yes, it is very good to try to adjust the cart as much as possible to fit the horse and driver. Sometimes this takes an educated eye. I am not familiar enough with a Hyperbike to make comments how how to adjust one, so I am glad that Bob chimed in to talk about it.

Myrna

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Carriage driving shows have a rule that you can't have a horse hitched and NOT be in the cart.

At some point there has to come a time when the driver steps out of the cart. Even if I have a groom to help, I'm not going to sit in that cart while he harnesses my horse and continue to sit there while he unhitches at the end! Even in the olden days the horse was hitched, then the driver mounted the vehicle. Once mounted, the groom stepped away from the horse's head and mounted as well. Not commenting on the pit stop thing, but it is unrealistic to expect that in the modern world where most of the time our helpers are friends or family who may not know a thing about driving or even horses, the driver is never going to step out of the cart to fix something. From what my local ADS officials have told me that rule is intended to indicate that they don't want the driver standing beside the cart watching a class with nobody on the box seat, not that the driver may never dismount.

If you think your horse can handle [something], then you are too inexperienced of a driver.

I don't think my horse can handle, with 100% reliability, anything. As you said, he's a horse. Stuff happens! And no horse, no matter how bombproof, should be trusted not to react. Trusting leads to carelessness which leads to accidents. But if you have the proper precautions in place at some point you can generally say that your horse is trained to handle xyz. If we didn't we'd have to consider every 20 year veteran to still be a green horse and totally unreliable!

I wish that before anyone did anything with their mini (or big horse), they would ask themselves, "What happens if....(insert negative behavior here)." For example, if I lead my horse that is put to a cart, "What happens if he gets away from me?" If I am changing a part of the harness or cart, "What happens if my horse moves?" Just asking yourself this simple question would save a few of us A LOT of typing and people a lot of headaches, both literally and figuratively.

This is a good principle but at some point it becomes an educated decision. There is risk in everything- if we stopped to think about all the bad things that could possibly happen, we'd never get out of bed in the morning. Know the risks, consider the consequences for yourself, the horse, and others, and act appropriately with proper respect for safety. That is all anyone can do.

Leia

 

[RhineStone]

From what my local ADS officials have told me that rule is intended to indicate that they don't want the driver standing beside the cart watching a class with nobody on the box seat, not that the driver may never dismount.

Actually, it's not a hard and fast rule either, just a strong suggestion for the same reasons that Leia mentioned. It is too hard to determine (by the rules) when you should be on the box or not. Quite a few years ago even before it was a strong suggestion in the rule book, we were at a show and I wanted to watch my sister's cones go. So I asked my husband to head the horse (a big one). The TD came over (Craig Kellogg) and suggested that someone be on the box. We were so used to 4-H rules where nobody but the driver dare "work with" the horse, that it didn't occur to me to have Chad get in the cart. It made sense after Craig explained it to us. If only I would have asked myself, "What could happen if....".

When you know better, you do better.

Myrna

 

[shorthorsemom]

To all the experienced drivers out there... I have a question.

I have been following this thread, (I read everything on driving I see posted) ... Do all of you have a groom assistant hold your horse for mounting and dismounting the cart every time you go out? Currently I am doing this because I am a newbie at driving. My assistant is at the horses head when I start and is there when I get back for the dismount and finish. I am not always going to be fortunate to have assistance available at all times that I want to drive. So, is it considered a driving "no-no" to tack, mount and go driving by yourself and come back and dismount and untack by yourself? In other words, if I cannot enlist help for my start and finish, should I skip the drive? For now I am only driving with somebody there to assist the mount and dismount because I am a green rookie, but I am thinking farther down the road when I get more miles under my belt.

 

[drivin*me*buggy]

Driving is dangerous- it is what it is- and like anything in life you make a risk assessment. You accept responsibility for the risks you take and develop good judgment and skills. Educate yourself. I am always learning- and forever will be a student of this sport and life. That being said...

I do not have anyone head my horse. I mainly end up working alone. Let me start again. I have done all the training on my horses (and before that mini donkeys). So I have taken HOURS with them ground driving, then intro to cart, then hitched. When I hitch for the first few times, I will have someone there in case I need some one. But then we are flying solo. For example- I got Buck when he was 9 month old. We hung out, "played", instilled manners and exposed him to everything I could find. I'd lead him while pulling a metal radio flyer wagon around, over grass and our stone driveway...I have him come w/ me when I bring the garbage cans down from the road...I play the radio- he is nearby when my husband has shot his gun. I got him used to having things all over him so harness was no big deal.

At 18 months we started ground driving and ground drove til he was 3, when I hitched him. He took it all in stride.

The most important thing your horse needs to know is to stand- When I say Whoa- stand- it means don't move your feet- and they know that.

It is AWESOME that you have a trainer to help you now. But I think eventually you will be fine to do it by yourself. I have my horses tied to the post outside their paddock when I harness and hitch. I use a buckle nose halter and once they are hitched I unbuckle. have them step over from the post and whoa/stand...get in the cart and go.

When I am done driving, we whoa/stand. I dismount, take the cart off-the beauty of minis is I can undo both sides and take the cart off from the same side. then we wlk to the post and finish unharnessing.

It is what works for me and has for 10 yrs. I am very cautious and aware of my horse and what is going on. I know some people who have crossties set up in their area. I hope others chime in and share what they do.

On another note, and to keep this also pertinent to my original topic of the Hyperbike. I have found getting in and out of the Hyperbike no more dangerous than getting in or out of a road cart or meadowbrook , or even my wooden easy entry cart with the big wooden wheels. The most important this is your horse needs to stand. Once in- be prepared to smile- because it is comfy and FUN! Buck LOVES it.

If you haven't tried one- you really can't say

I am going to try and find the time to put together a video of me and Buck from assembling it to getting in and driving. Even my hubby-who isn't a cart guy- thinks it is so cool and so well made.

Angie

 

[RhineStone]

I don't always have a header, and actually even when I am working with a green horse, I only have that person there, not holding my horse. The horse needs to learn to stand without someone holding them. However, I have been driving for about 20 years and competitively for 10. I wouldn't recommend someone green not having someone else there. And I really don't like driving when there is not someone else on the property. I might lay there an awful long time if I were to get hurt. If my husband isn't home, our son suits the bill. They don't have to stand there, just be somewhere within shouting distance.

Myrna

 

[shorthorsemom]

Thank you for the input, helps alot. I can see why my trainer is having me set up a specific way right now while I am learning, makes sense to read the post and put what I am being taught to do in perspective. My trainer had me put down a rubber mat in between the gate posts of my training pen with two cross ties attached to the gate posts. (Kind of like target training a dog.) We then tack and put the cart on there. I use a header, she has taught my daughter to head for me, but she is only there for support, we insist on a perfect stand from my boy. When ready I detach the cross ties, enter the cart from the rear, pick up my whip and ask him to stand a couple of seconds more, and then we go forward into my training pen where I warm up, then we circle and leave the pen and go out to work on trails. When finished trails we do some cone work, and then I stop on the same mat, my header watches until I exit and then we take off the cart and harness while cross tied. I have one of those buckle halters too which works well. We insist on no movement at all from my boy, the header is just there to be safe in case my newbie status affects anything. It is working well. Somebody is always here on the farm so I wouldn't really be alone.

Hey Angie, I put money down on a hyperbike on Bob's layaway plan.

Someday I will be posting that "my hyperbike is here", until then training in my meadowbrook with lots of supervision with emphasis on safety. Thanks Myrna and Angie for posting!

 

[Carriage]

Thank you for the input, helps alot. I can see why my trainer is having me set up a specific way right now while I am learning, makes sense to read the post and put what I am being taught to do in perspective.

Sounds like your trainer has great value to you and is starting with first things first.

As a trainer wearing various hats over the years, I too have insured that the core knowledge of a subject is taught first and foremost and if possible, the hard way. For instance, using a GPS to navigate exclusively is great. However without a core understanding of land-nav with a compass FIRST, you find that your reliance on a piece of hardware and knowledge of how to use same is absolutely worthless when it says bye bye to you. Then whatya do?... Quite simply, you will be lost. Once one has acquired AND retained said core knowledge, they can start playing with the bells whistles and toys. Until then they are just a poser and a potential casualty.

This method of teaching and learning is referred to as crawl, walk, run. You don't proceed to running without having completed the pre-requisites of 1)crawl, 2) walk. To do so, is to set yourself and your horse up for failure and the resulting situational fall-out. The responsibilities on both sides of the coin are your trainers ability to impart her knowledge to you in an ENCOURAGING and assimilable (to you) way and your willingness to be a eager sponge with a handy dandy "applicator", eh?

Also the willingness to accept the reality/fact that you are always and forever training, to me, is key not just to this topic but through-out life. Just as you will never achieve perfection this side of Heaven, (sorry if you did not receive the memo..) neither will you have ever "learned it all". Always be ready to learn, no mater your station on a specific topic. Guess what, ifn yer keeping your eyes peeled for the opportunity, you will learn more by teaching, many times, than by merely being a student. This, rather than ego, should be your motivation for teaching and why one should aspire to same.

However sometimes, 'instructors', like critics, lack even a core knowledge of the topic they would choose to teach to others. That being said, there have been repeated and baseless charges of a certain carts safety shortcomings. As I am in a position to know and am at a loss in attempting to confirm these charges, I would politely ask the poster to enumerate these safety issues. Failure to do so would then move me to politely ask the poster to please stop doing so.

Keep going Mom. Wings must be earned and you're doing just that.

Bb

 

[hobbyhorse23]

To all the experienced drivers out there... I have a question.I have been following this thread, (I read everything on driving I see posted) ... Do all of you have a groom assistant hold your horse for mounting and dismounting the cart every time you go out? Currently I am doing this because I am a newbie at driving. My assistant is at the horses head when I start and is there when I get back for the dismount and finish. I am not always going to be fortunate to have assistance available at all times that I want to drive. So, is it considered a driving "no-no" to tack, mount and go driving by yourself and come back and dismount and untack by yourself? In other words, if I cannot enlist help for my start and finish, should I skip the drive?

To be completely candid, yes, it is generally considered a no-no. So many things can go wrong, especially with a full-sized horse, and an accident with no one there to help you extricate the horse or notice that you haven't come back could be a terrible tragedy. Those who say that are absolutely correct. At the same time, I think Angie really nailed it on the head with this statement:

Driving is dangerous- it is what it is- and like anything in life you make a risk assessment. You accept responsibility for the risks you take and develop good judgment and skills. Educate yourself. I am always learning- and forever will be a student of this sport and life.

Risk assessment and taking responsibility for the results are a big part of it. If I am not comfortable with my horse's behavior on a given day, if he is scaring me or I feel uncomfortable for any reason, I will not drive no matter what my plans were. I listen to my gut! If my green horse is wired and IMO not ready to hitch that day, I will ground-drive until he either is or we're both tired and done. Heck, if I even have an unspecified bad feeling on a given day, I listen to it. Maybe there's a bear I don't know about out on that trail. Maybe a drunk guy in the bushes. Whatever. If my guardian angel wants to tap my shoulder, I'm going to listen.

But like you, I have taken the time to educate myself and consider all the "what-if's." I know my horse and have done my groundwork with him. I do my best to prevent, through good training, good equipment and good practices, any sort of foreseeable problem. And then I take responsibility for the results, hitch up and go. If something goes wrong it is my fault, not the horse's. If I get hurt, I have no one to blame but myself. I am more concerned about accidentally injuring an innocent bystander or my horse and weigh any risk to them much more heavily than one to myself.

I'll be honest with you- I would never drive a full-sized horse by myself. Ever. I will drive a mini alone. Not because they are any less dangerous, but because my personal threshold is defined by whether I think I could get that horse out of trouble by myself. If a big horse goes down and gets tangled in harness it's going to take at least two people, preferably a swarm, to get him out safely. Someone must hold his head down, someone undo harness straps on each side, someone else help roll that heavy cart back, etc. One person cannot possibly do that safely. Especially not someone my size! Even hitching is risky as you must go around that large vehicle even to check a simple buckle and if that horse goes over top of you you're dead. With minis you can usually hold the horse's head and still reach the breeching buckle, nevermind the rest of the harness, at one time.

I can lift any of my carts by myself and flip them upright with one hand while still holding the horse. Even at my featherlight 106lbs, I can hold the horse down by myself (given the correct leverage) and undo harness straps. And at least when driving my own horse I not only know them, but they know - and more importantly, trust - me. I will not drive my mini alone if I can help it and not at all until they have proven to me that they'll listen and respond to me even when startled or afraid. I will not drive a mini I do not have that bond with alone. Those are my personal boundaries and may not necessarily be correct for someone else.

I've had accidents (anyone who's been driving for long enough eventually will) and have found the above comments to be correct for me and my individual horses. They may still bolt, spook, back into a fence or whatever, but once the accident is over and we're dealing with the aftermath my horses know to trust me to get them out and will lie there or stand steady while I get them untangled. And it is still better to have someone with you!

I had one very bad accident with a friend's horse at the Kentucky Horse Park where I was SO GLAD I had two other people with me...and we'd have still been in trouble if they were both driving their own horses! Thankfully one was riding her Connemara and was able to dismount and tie him to a tree long enough to dive into the bushes in which my mare was stuck and help me get her free. She was panicked and lunging so someone absolutely had to stand at her head, and given that I'd injured my wrist and opposite shoulder in being dislodged from the cart it would have been nice to have a third person to help with getting the harness off. I thank God that the adrenaline was flowing strongly enough for me to wrench on those harp-taut harness buckles because otherwise we might never have gotten her out. (By an hour later I couldn't even open a car door without literally screaming.) If we'd only been out with single-passenger mini rigs, I think someone would have had to go for help while I stood at the mare's head because we would not have been able to safely get her out by ourselves. Lesson learned- especially if you are only going out with other drivers, each person should carry a halter so they can unhitch and tie their horses and come help someone in trouble! And thank God the other driver with me had a bench seat and a big mini so I was able to get a ride home leading the mare.

Another safety note that accident reminds me of- I was very glad I was carrying a knife and a cell phone, both zipped into their pockets so I couldn't lose them, and wearing a helmet and driving gloves. Both saved me serious injury. If you do go out by yourself, put your cell phone number somewhere on the horse's harness and make sure you've got a local emergency contact saved in your phone! I realized too late that while I had the mare's owner's phone number programmed in, I didn't have a contact number for any of my friends back at the barn that could have come and found me. Oops!

This method of teaching and learning is referred to as crawl, walk, run. You don't proceed to running without having completed the pre-requisites of 1)crawl, 2) walk. To do so, is to set yourself and your horse up for failure and the resulting situational fall-out. ...Also the willingness to accept the reality/fact that you are always and forever training, to me, is key not just to this topic but through-out life.

So true. I wish more people would remember this applies to our horses as well! So often the horse seems to be accepting things so the person plows ahead without checking to see that the animal really "has its balance" and is ready to proceed.

Oh, and to keep this Hyperbike-related: yes, the KHP accident above occurred while driving a 'Bike. It survived amazingly well and was back in service the next day! The vehicle had nothing to do with the cause of the incident.

Leia

 

[MiLo Minis]

However sometimes, 'instructors', like critics, lack even a core knowledge of the topic they would choose to teach to others. That being said, there have been repeated and baseless charges of a certain carts safety shortcomings. As I am in a position to know and am at a loss in attempting to confirm these charges, I would politely ask the poster to enumerate these safety issues. Failure to do so would then move me to politely ask the poster to please stop doing so.

Bb

At first I was going to just ignore this because I wasn't sure if you were referring to me or not but, then, I realized that it doesn't really matter who you were referring to. I have nothing personal against you Bob, I don't know you at all but you seem like a nice enough fella. Do I think the Hyperbike is a more dangerous than necessary vehicle? Yes I do. Would I recommend it to one of my clients/students? No I wouldn't. Neither would I recommend a meadowbrook, whose method of entry is by raising the seat and entering from behind, or a 4 wheel vehicle that is not a cutunder, to a beginner driver or anyone else for that matter. Both of those types of vehicles have been proven to be more dangerous than necessary - there are other vehicles that have a better design.

When I first saw a Hyperbike I was intrigued. You are closer to the horse and it is a bit closer to riding than your average vehicle. Looked pretty neat! Someone in Ontario (forum member) had one for sale and I inquired. I was sent photos, some good closeups of all the features. When I got looking at it I thought: How the heck do you get in the seat? I asked and was told that you got in the shafts between the horse and the seat and then hop up on the seat. Do I think this is an unnecessarily dangerous way to mount? Yes I do. Have I ever owned or driven a Hyperbike? No I haven't and I won't because I don't feel they are worth the risk because it only takes once. You get almost the same sensation driving my sulky bike whose seat I can sit down on, swing my legs over and enter much more safely. THE most dangerous instant in driving is entering or exiting your vehicle - more accidents happen then.

After having driven for almost 30 years and having seen or experienced personally a lot of the bad things that can happen when driving a horse I am very cautious as I don't personally want to die or become disabled - I have a little girl I love and who needs a mother. There are so many good vehicles out there that I don't feel it is necessary to put myself at any more risk than is necessary (and driving, as all things do, comes with inherent risks already that I have accepted because I enjoy it so much)by trying out a vehicle that I feel is more dangerous than necessary. Do I feel that people have a right to know the drawbacks to something as well as the good points? Yes I do.

Someone was asking about the safety of driving alone. I drive alone all the time because training horses is my full time job. I drive very green beginner horses constantly and 99% of the time I am on my own. I work very carefully and cautiously because I don't want myself or the horse injured. I carry a knife on my person at all times when working with horses, as well as a small set of pliers because I have found them handy to have in the event of an accident. I don't take unnecessary risks because even with my cautious behaviour sometimes things still go wrong.

I haven't heard of a lot of accidents regarding the Hyperbike but then, it hasn't been around for long nor are there a lot of them in use yet. This doesn't make me think that they are safe, just that I haven't heard about the accidents involved or that they haven't happened YET. You can do something 100 times and nothing goes wrong but that 101st time...... I doubt that if it was available in horse size you would get a lot of people using them.

This is North America where we practice free speech and I feel I have a right to my opinion as does everyone else. I have never once come on here and said "Are you crazy? DON'T buy a Hyperbike!" and I never will but if someone asks for an opinion I will not tell them that I feel the Hyperbike is as safe as any other vehicle. Sorry Bob.

Thank you for coming on here and admitting that removing the wheel while the horse was hitched and the driver seated was not a great idea and really shouldn't be done. It is wise to remember when posting that there are a lot of people reading that are complete novices and wouldn't necessarily realize what could have happened. When an expert such as yourself says it can be done there are many who would try it.

"Carriage driving shows have a rule that you can't have a horse hitched and NOT be in the cart."

"At some point there has to come a time when the driver steps out of the cart. Even if I have a groom to help, I'm not going to sit in that cart while he harnesses my horse and continue to sit there while he unhitches at the end!"

Yes and this was what made the rule a bit of a joke when it first came about. Their intention was good - their wording was not! I had an occasion when I finished hitching and got in my cart, realized I had forgotten my gloves and had my groom hold the horse while I dashed into the trailer to grab my gloves. The TD came over and told me that I couldn't have my groom hold the horse and if it happened again I would be asked to leave. I also couldn't have him IN the cart holding the reins because he wasn't old enough and what I should have done was unhitch the horse just so I could run and grab my gloves! Believe me, I am VERY careful now to be sure I have EVERYTHING BEFORE I get in my cart. My groom IS old enough to head my horse while I mount after hitching!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

When I got looking at it I thought: How the heck do you get in the seat? I asked and was told that you got in the shafts between the horse and the seat and then hop up on the seat. Do I think this is an unnecessarily dangerous way to mount? Yes I do. Have I ever owned or driven a Hyperbike? No I haven't and I won't because I don't feel they are worth the risk because it only takes once. You get almost the same sensation driving my sulky bike whose seat I can sit down on, swing my legs over and enter much more safely. THE most dangerous instant in driving is entering or exiting your vehicle - more accidents happen then.

I so agree about entering the vehicle being the most dangerous moment! I have never been able to get in my Graber roadster cart except by stepping over the shafts and then sitting down so I have never felt mounting that vehicle to be any different from mounting my Hyperbike except in having a little more room before the seat takes your legs out from under you if the horse jumps forward. If you can get in in a safer manner, more power to you. Wish I could!

The older style of Hyperbike has a small scoop seat which you could have sat down on that way and spun. I prefer the model with a seat back though as I think it is much more secure over rough terrain than any cart without a seat back.

I also personally like having adjustable stirrups with some grip on them, something my Graber roadster cart does not offer. I've darn near done a faceplant on the singletree more than once when my foot suddenly slipped free of the stirrup because it was too far away and we went over a bump!

Whatever cart you drive, I think it's important that things be adjusted correctly for the driver to be secure. As you said, there are many carts that are worrisome in various ways and that I would not drive because I felt them unsafe. For me, personally, the Hyperbike is far safer than my regular carts once I'm in it and only as dangerous as my others to mount. That may not be the case for someone else!

I haven't heard of a lot of accidents regarding the Hyperbike but then, it hasn't been around for long nor are there a lot of them in use yet.

Not to argue over minutia, but the Hyperbike is hardly a new vehicle.

I think they've been out there for over a decade and I believe there's quite a few around. Muffy Seaton has one I think!

I doubt that if it was available in horse size you would get a lot of people using them.

Absolutely not. How on earth would you mount it? Normal racing sulkies for full-sized horses serve the same purpose, weight-wise, as the Hyperbike does for the minis.

Thank you, by the way, for sharing your well-reasoned opinion. It is always good to hear another side of things!

Leia

 

[MiLo Minis]

I so agree about entering the vehicle being the most dangerous moment! I have never been able to get in my Graber roadster cart except by stepping over the shafts and then sitting down so I have never felt mounting that vehicle to be any different from mounting my Hyperbike except in having a little more room before the seat takes your legs out from under you if the horse jumps forward. If you can get in in a safer manner, more power to you. Wish I could!

The older style of Hyperbike has a small scoop seat which you could have sat down on that way and spun. I prefer the model with a seat back though as I think it is much more secure over rough terrain than any cart without a seat back.

I sit on the seat from behind the cart of any Mini cart that isn't easy entry and swing my legs over to get in - very quick and easy and if the horse steps away or I slip and miss I end up on my butt in the dirt basically unscathed except for my dignity.

 

If your horse steps away with you before you get your butt in the seat of your cart, or you slip, you get pitched forward onto his rump which could easily cause him to bolt or buck or kick and you are not in a great position if he does any of those things caught between him, the seat and the shafts. As the cart moves forward you are thrown down under his heels and quite possibly caught up in the cart to be dragged. It is important that your horse be taught to stand well when you are mounting or dismounting but it is extremely important that your horse is well trained to stand without moving when you are using a Hyperbike and then you can't depend on those bees not to sting him at the wrong moment can you?

 

And yes, I can understand wanting a seat back because otherwise you wouldn't be able to stick in the seat easily! I prefer a seat back for rough terrain on any vehcile.

I also personally like having adjustable stirrups with some grip on them, something my Graber roadster cart does not offer. I've darn near done a faceplant on the singletree more than once when my foot suddenly slipped free of the stirrup because it was too far away and we went over a bump!

Try wrapping the stirrup in rubber which I have done - my legs are as short as yours I am sure.

Whatever cart you drive, I think it's important that things be adjusted correctly for the driver to be secure. As you said, there are many carts that are worrisome in various ways and that I would not drive because I felt them unsafe. For me, personally, the Hyperbike is far safer than my regular carts once I'm in it and only as dangerous as my others to mount. That may not be the case for someone else!

Not to argue over minutia, but the Hyperbike is hardly a new vehicle.

I think they've been out there for over a decade and I believe there's quite a few around. Muffy Seaton has one I think!

10 years is a mere blink in the history of carriages and driving. There are models of carriages that have been around for centuries. Is the Hyperbike a new vehicle? YUP Has there been another horse vehicle similiarly built over the centuries? Not to my knowledge.

Absolutely not. How on earth would you mount it? Normal racing sulkies for full-sized horses serve the same purpose, weight-wise, as the Hyperbike does for the minis.

Maybe you should try my Miniature sulky - works just as well as the full size versions!

Thank you, by the way, for sharing your well-reasoned opinion. It is always good to hear another side of things!

No problem!

Leia

There are inherent risks in driving, as I said before, and there are aspects to every vehicle that may or may not suit you personally knowing your own risk level. I do feel it is important to have both the pros and cons before choosing one. I may not like anything but an easy entry as I get older and it gets harder to swing my legs around

but even as a younger driver I would not choose a Hyperbike.

 

[shorthorsemom]

I have a meadowbrook and I want a hyperbike. I am not young or limber and I have little kids.

There is so much to think about. I had all of my previous driving experience 31 years ago. I exercised standardbred race horses when I was young and I drove a pair and several single ponies all over the road and in fields and a sleigh. I never thought about it much back then, just got in and drove. Now I am getting back into it, and taking lessons and taking it real slow. There is so much more to it than I remember back then. I hopped into a sulky or jog cart and just went out onto the track along with all the other grooms out there in the morning. The pair of ponies I drove at fairs and birthday parties, one time I remember beiing set up at a fair right next to the ferris wheel and never even thought about it being a danger or scary for our ponies.

I navigated a couple of times at beginner level shows about 15 years ago, but basically just sat and leaned when the driver told me to and I also got to do the stop watch part. Somebody must have been watching over me back then in my ignorance and naive self.

I hope to be smarter this time and get plenty of instruction to balance and compensate for my older, less limber more chubby self. My meadowbrook is easy to enter from the rear and I haven't had any issues with it except that it is heavy for my boy to pull with me in it when he is still so out of shape. What I was hoping for was to use both the meadowbrook and the hyperbike to do cross conditioning on my mini boy. Thanks for all the diverse comments and postings, Still much to think about. I have a lesson today, it is horribly windy out and really cold.

I never thought to bring a knife and pliers... thanks for that advice. Maybe one of those multi tool thingys for Christmas would be good to carry. I do carry my cell on my person, I remember a riding friend of mine watching her horse run away with her cell phone in the saddlebag. Not much good there. thanks for all the posting!

 

[studiowvw]

All the posts are so interesting - thanks to all for their efforts.

I'm kinda with the Carriage guy on this one - there's a lot of linking the word "dangerous" with the cart in mention.

Would it not be more accurate to say "I feel vulnerable in this position"? Then go about minimizing the vulnerability. (Or don't use the cart.)

Hopefully (and obviously) those experienced drivers have put a lot of time into preparation and training and ongoing work. So the odds are, if you take the time to read the situation, you are not in any particular danger. (No more than any other cart.)

Hopefully, one would ask one's self:

"Am I limber enough to get into this or any cart quickly?"

"What could go wrong and how can I minimize those possibilities?"

If things are looking good (with yourself, your training of your horse, your reading of the day's situation), then:

one could say, "Looks like I can!" and go ahead. Smile, pray if you have to and put positive thoughts in your head.

Why do children and young people just go ahead with horses and do things as listed in the previous post by "Shorthorsemom"?

Partly because they have no fear. The fear is not in their head and not in their body. The horse does not read "fear" off his/her handler and has confidence.

Ray Hunt (one of the fathers of natural horsemanship) says to "visualize" what you want the horse to do first. I would say let's spend more time visualizing in a positive way (without stupidity, of course.) If you are visualizing disaster, I think you are setting up your mind and body and horse to experience it.

A friend who is an experienced CDE driver who has taken lessons with a number of talented and experienced drivers, told me she was taught to THINK what you want the horse to do, then FEEL it, then SAY the voice command, then use the REIN if you have to. However it gets to the horse from THINK and FEEL, it sets up the right response from SAYING and REINING.

Now I understand there are many basic beginners who get on here and it is necessary to give sensible advice (as in: all horse handling is dangerous, driving can be dangerous, get lessons, get knowledge, etc.) and you all are quite amazing at being patient with us

How about a disclaimer at the bottom of everyone's posts mentioning the dangers? (It could always be pointed out if necessary.)

People get killed riding bicycles, riding motorcycles, falling down stairs, etc. and even sitting at your computer is dangerous (did you know sitting for more than 4 hours at a time kickstarts dangerous signals through your body that can lead to ill health and death - and I'm not joking.)

I know I will almost always be driving alone, so knowing this, I am hopefully setting this up for success by acknowledging it and planning for it. I appreciate the many comments on ways to lessen risk.

However, I think the insistence on "dangerous" "dangerous" "dangerous" is actually somewhat dangerous in its own.

Wilma

a relative newcomer to this forum, so slap me if I have overstepped

 

[RhineStone]

I think that every vehicle has it's inherent risks, especially in the mounting or dismounting. Most people know that I am NOT a fan of those crappy little pipe "Easy Entry" carts that most mini people want. I think those are some of the poorest designed, cheap vehicles out there, but look how many people have them! And yes, I have drove in one, and shown small shows in one, and after having a "real" cart, I hate them. Compared to a well-designed and constructed vehicle (which you pay for), the ride is terrible, the paint job doesn't last, the leg space tends to be too shallow for a taller person, and the seat is too shallow as well; they are noisy and hard to "turn out" (what do you wear in the ring and look like you "fit"?), the pnuematic wheels aren't good for much more than simple flat work arena driving or smooth trails at best, and the vinyl seat, while wonderful to clean, is extremely slippery and contributes to the "easy exit". Yes, they are very easy to get into (which is about their ONLY accolade besides the price), but they are also VERY easy to get out of, and not always on your own accord. But EVERYBODY wants one.

However, with the exception of truly homemade - with no knowledge of driving safety - vehicles ("Let's make a little red wagon into a mini cart...."), every vehicle has it's place. We have step over the shaft vehicles, sit on the seat and spin your leg vehicles, step over the double-bend shaft vehicles, a rear entry Meadowbrook, vehicles with steps, a step over and into the box - not cut-under Runabout, and a Marathon vehicle that you have to pull your leg up onto a pad on the front axle. Every one of those vehicles has it's own "pain to get into" aspect. The common denominator about all those vehicles is the horse you have in the front. While you can't guarantee 100% that your horse is never going to move, you can work this into your training plans, which I'm sure that the good trainers here do. What I find absolutely silly is the people that have to have a header to "hold back" their horse until the driver is barely settled into the cart, and then the header "lets go" and the horse shoots forward! How stupid is that!

Now that beind said, there are some of the above vehicles we own and build that would not necessarily be vehicles for certain people. For example, I would not advocate a beginner driver (less than at least 3-4 years experience) driving our Runabout. It is too easy to jackknife, but there are divisions around here just for Country (not cut under) vehicles. It is a part of our heritage. If you have limited mobility, you probably don't want a step over the shaft vehicle. We watched a number of elderly drivers getting ready for the Old Guard class at Walnut Hill. One guy practically took more time to get in and out of the vehicle than the class lasted! We have a friend that has diabetes with foot problems and she really likes her rear-entry Mini Meadowbrook.

I would not consider the Hyperbike to be an "only" vehicle, but it definitely has it's place. I would love to see if I could shave time off my hazards with a Hyperbike. However, I wouldn't show up at a ADS pleasure show with one. It wouldn't "fit", but that is not what it was designed for, either. And I would not consider it a green driver/green horse vehicle. But considering the disadvantages of a crappy metal pipe cart, I don't think that is a good for a green driver/green horse vehicle.

Myrna

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Awesome post Wilma, in all ways!!

:yeah

:yeah (You too, Myrna.)

I think you and I would really get along. Where do you live?

Leia

 

[susanne]

As one with somewhat limited mobility, I take extreme caution entering and existing any cart. Looking at full-size carts, I get rather queazy considering the mechanics of climbing in via a tiny step positioned directly in front of a very large wheel. I would do it, but I would want a header.

My personal experience to date is limited to my CTM easy entry, several HyperBikes, an ancient wooden show cart and a distinctly NON easy entry pony cart. Of these, I've felt safest getting in and out of the HyperBike. I simultaneously put one leg over the shaft and sit down, then lift the other leg onto the stirrup.

I felt terribly uneasy climbing over the shaft into the pony cart, and even with the easy entry, I have a brief moment of extreme vulnerability stepping in -- with the height of the cart with the lift kit (which puts it at the right height for38 inch Mingus), I have to step up and then sit down. I have this down to a brief couple of seconds, but if he took off at this moment, I'd be in deep doodoo (mine, no doubt).

Of all of these carts, the moment of vulnerability is briefest in the HyperBike. And, as Leia noted, the seat is positioned so that it would catch me behind my knees and seat me (albeit rather abruptly) in the cart.

Once in the cart, the full height seat back and stirrups allows for bracing myself, so I feel extremely secure, even when Mingus changed his mind about descending a steep bank into a creek and turned to the side, putting me at a rakish 45 degree angle. Any other cart would have left me swimming with the fishies.

I have to agree, Lori, that this is not the cart for a green horse, especially if you are working alone; however, I trained Mingus with the pony cart that required climbing over the shaft onto a bench seat with no back, so how safe is that? My stomach flip-flops just remembering.

As others have stated, there is danger in all carts and carriages, and we all have to carefully assess the risks as they apply to our individual situations. It is wise to look at this with a critical eye and consider all possibilities, and new whips in particular need to learn all they can before driving, whatever the cart.

 

[shorthorsemom]

Thanks for all the postings! awesome information!

I am green but my mini has miles and experience and I am working hand in hand with a very experienced trainer. I am so glad for that. I was working previously driving training two of my mini boys, but green on green was so difficult I never progressed to actually driving, just line driving. My new boy has been there and done that and competed in CDE. Oh what a difference to learn on an experienced horse. I am so glad I am able to learn on an experienced horse, it is making such a difference!

I just got in from my lesson and it felt great. My trainer had me doing 4 sets of off set cones at a trot. When I was finished she says to me, this is not just for showing, now you know how wide your cart is and can avoid trees and fence posts and you can accurately judge the width of your cart. We also did a canter up a hill and a trail drive and some ring work and I learned different ways to hold the reins (one handed vs two handed). Can't beat working with a trainer. Confidence building and working up trust in my boy. After all these weeks of working I can feel his trust is there with me too. We are becoming a team. Today was by far the best lesson yet. The wind was whipping and I was freezing and tarps over the equipment in the shed looked like they were going to take off and fly. He never missed a beat. I needed that.

 

[drivin*me*buggy]

I think this has been a great thread

Shorthorsemom- sounds like you had a great time today!! Bravo! We are going to need some pix you know

And to keep this Hyperbike related:

Buck and I drove 30 minutes this afternoon towards our 100 hour challenge. All in all I got to spend about an hour and 15 min with my little man in total.

It was freezing, wind blowing, snowing at times. Buckers was a good boy- even when we were stalked by a stray cat! LOL

Angie