My mini has little or no frog and hollow hooves in the front!!!!!

[Tremor]

I don't know if he is licenced or not. He now does a good job on our big horses after we told him what we wanted. He was cutting the heel off so it didn't crack, but we had him leave more heel. This is the best we could do for now because we hit the bloodline all of the way around the hoof. I will post pictures of the underneath of her hooves soon!

I find this infuriating. Your farrier (or any farrier for that matter) should not just do a good job when the customer asks him/her to do so. He/She ought to be doing that animal justice with EACH and EVERY trim.

Some people ought not to work with helpless, living creatures for a living. (Farriers, not you.)

NOTE: For those of you who believe that I am being harsh; I find any mention of this worthless farrier insulting to individual who aspires to become a farrier (like a myself) or any decent farrier who has worked their butt off to become a competent horseman/woman. I can and will voice that opinion. I am entitled to it. If you don't like then don't read my posts. I look through my local craigslist and see TOO many miniatures with no hoof care to the point where their hooves are curling or they're walking on their hoof bulbs; and I have been working too hard with my own herd to not become frustrated with people like that. By brain explodes and my heart aches for each and every horse.

 

[chandab]

Since you say he's a family friend, I'm sure it is difficult to replace him, but I don't think he's been doing you any favours.

i find this part interesting, because... A month or so ago, I was talking with my farrier about a friend of mine who is behind on farrier work due to her farrier being injured and there not being many to choose from around here (mine isn't taking on new clients). I commented about maybe helping her out, as I trim some of my own, so could probably trim some of hers to help her out. My farrier asked me "Do you want to be her friend or be her farrier?" He commented that doing both often isn't feasible.

 

[chandab]

I find this infuriating. Your farrier (or any farrier for that matter) should not just do a good job when the customer asks him/her to do so. He/She ought to be doing that animal justice with EACH and EVERY trim.

Some people ought not to work with helpless, living creatures for a living. (Farriers, not you.)

NOTE: For those of you who believe that I am being harsh; I find any mention of this worthless farrier insulting to individual who aspires to become a farrier (like a myself) or any decent farrier who has worked their butt off to become a competent horseman/woman. I can and will voice that opinion. I am entitled to it. If you don't like then don't read my posts. I look through my local craigslist and see TOO many miniatures with no hoof care to the point where their hooves are curling or they're walking on their hoof bulbs; and I have been working too hard with my own herd to not become frustrated with people like that. By brain explodes and my heart aches for each and every horse.

My former vet (he's now retired) once told me; there are horseshoers, and then, there are farriers. [Most of the meaning of the phrase is in the tone. He was implying, by tone... Horseshoers are just there to pick-up a pay check. Farriers are there for the best interests of the horse.]

I've been through many horseshoers in my time of horse ownership, but only had a few farriers. Have one of the best now, and hope he doesn't retire any time soon. [i do trim a few of my own, just the normal ones; he trims the special needs horses and also the saddle horses (I can't get the nippers through their hooves).]

 

[Tremor]

My former vet (he's now retired) once told me; there are horseshoers, and then, there are farriers. [Most of the meaning of the phrase is in the tone. He was implying, by tone... Horseshoers are just there to pick-up a pay check. Farriers are there for the best interests of the horse.]

I've been through many horseshoers in my time of horse ownership, but only had a few farriers. Have one of the best now, and hope he doesn't retire any time soon. [i do trim a few of my own, just the normal ones; he trims the special needs horses and also the saddle horses (I can't get the nippers through their hooves).]

I think we can add trimmers to that list as well. I would classify this "farrier" as a trimmer.

 

[ohmt]

There is a way to teach and a way to scold. Some seem much better at the latter....or maybe confuse the two.

Sweetie, you do really need a new farrier. I understand as well as anyone the need to reduce cost, but in this case you need to think about how much you will need to spend to have him keep coming out to fix his own mistakes and most likely for vet care when he keeps doing what he's doing. In the long run, spending a little more on a good farrier will save you. Don't get too frustrated with some of the comments. They are just trying to help, I promise.

I got your pm and will respond in the morning

 

[Tremor]

There is a way to teach and a way to scold. Some seem much better at the latter....or maybe confuse the two.

Maybe I must explain myself for my manner of communicating? I firmly believe that people don't learn by being coddled. I don't learn that way. I need the information bluntly and in my face. I learned that way and I am a very critical person that way with my own herd. Being critical is necessary.

The fact that the OP (no offense..) has acted nonchalantly throughout the thread, told her farrier NOT to trim the heels down, and even wants to keep the $8 "farrier" just proves my point. This behavior will not be changed through coddling; which is what happened before the trim and she still refused to trim the heels down when we told her they were too tall.

OP: For your minis and horses' sake you need to drop this "farrier" and look for a farrier worth their weight in gold. I would bet my paycheck that you could find one. You also need to educate yourself on this matter. Buy some books, buy some DVDs, take some classes, etc. Every owner should. Hooves are not to be taken lightly, nor are weight issues, or teeth maintenance.

EDUCATE, EDUCATE, EDUCATE. (This ought to be my motto...and America's. Lord knows our generations are lacking.)

 

[ohmt]

I actually did not read your post Tremor and after reading the first sentence of this new one, will continue to skip over them.

Oh, did see the educate part though. I wish you lots of luck with your teaching methods.

 

[PaintMeFancy]

I am just curious why ask for advice when you will only defend what is being done?

Your mini is suffering... and while it needs to be done gradually it NEEDS to be done by someone who knows what they are doing. If these toes were taken back to blood line my guess is she is now sore and they are too short in the toe... Are you aware that one bad trim can permanently lame a horse and cause death? Happened to a friend of mine, her gelding was trimmed by a "farrier" who trimmed the gelding wrong (short among other things) even after given directions on what to do. The horse was so sore he went off food. It wasn't long before the vet had to put him down. No favors to owners or horses are done by someone without proper hoof knowledge.

No client should have to explain to a farrier what to do with a horse's hoof - unless it was directions from a vet, but then it should be communicated between the two to ensure no miss-communications happen.This farrier I would assume knows nothing about angles and only knows the basics of taking off toe, heel, etc

Farriers do not have to go to school, I have had some excellent self taught (internships, etc) - and ones that have gone to school who don't know a thing!

If you need to save money - why not learn how to trim feet yourself. You can learn about angles, proper length, etc

 

[happy appy]

If you are telling your farrier what to do then your horse might be better off having you file her feet every few days until it gets to be a better angle. At this point you can't do a worse job then the "farrier".

 

[shorthorsemom]

Hi again... bless you for posting to the forum so we can all learn together. Don't get frustrated by some of the comments, you can read deep down into most of them someone that has probably had some issues with past farriers that haunts them... I do believe anybody in horses has had problems somewhere along the line with a farrier and a good farrier is worth their weight in gold. First off I will say, it is rare that any farrier can correct a bad problem over night, so the perfect feet may well be 6 months into the future. It took my horses quite some time to get the angles where I felt they should be on my guys with my new farrier. My new farrier uses a measuring tool for angle and he has educated me quite a bit on foot trimming. I also read everything I can. I found an article that has cartoon drawings of feet complete with angles shown and then for the life of me, I can't seem to find it now to past it here. sorry... If the forum would judge me on computer savy I would get a D minus. LOL. Anyway... hang in there.. will go back to search for that darn article. found it...hope this link works... best wishes http://www.equipodia...om/hoofangl.htm ps you can buy a hoof gauge on ebay to measure angle. after my old farrier messed up my boys.. I took lots of photos of the feet , sometimes I think you can see better from some photos because you can print the photo, take a ruler and measure the angles and look to see where you are. Beware, chopping and lowering and making drastic changes at this point when you say you are already close to the blood line may cause lameness. I had my old farrier make a change on my boys and they both went lame for several weeks. He made too drastic of a change all at once after I showed him photos and requested a change. It was a horrible experience. Feel free to Pm me off the forum, we could exchange emails and I can probably find some photos to send you if that would help you. take care.

 

[Tremor]

I actually did not read your post Tremor and after reading the first sentence of this new one, will continue to skip over them.

Oh, did see the educate part though. I wish you lots of luck with your teaching methods.

And that is why you ought to read the entire post. I was not talking about my own teaching methods then, but as a horse owner the OP (and anybody) ought to research and EDUCATE themselves.

But feel free to read what you like and take it out of context.

 

[ohmt]

Hmmm...

Not sure where all of your anger is coming from, Tremor. Have a great day.

 

[rubyviewminis]

Kay I am back. I hope you continue reading and take the good advice, it is given with a lot of care and experience.

In reality there is no "bloodline" like a dog or cat claw that would bleed and be sore if you nipped short and it bled, just like a hangnail. Your pretty little mare is so long that she has a lot of built up sole and wall that can come off still without harm. If the sole that is there now can be flaked off, (you could soak her in mud or water for an hour then dry her hooves and look, when completely dry with a hay net for distraction, plaques of extra sole would show they can be popped off) then she still has a lot to slough off. Her heels do need a Lot more off and it won't hurt her. She might be tender if her frogs are long and she isn't used to using them, or if she was trimmed more with too much off the toe from underneath. She could also get tender footed in the heel because it has been so long since she has used them properly that the inner structures are low in the hoof and weak. The toe can be backed up when the heel is taken down more. Then she will be on the way to normal, by keeping her heels every 4 to 5 weeks and her toe backed up and beveled some. When she is trimmed a little more that is when you have to stop and slowly each month do a little more and in 6 to 9 months she will look great. If she does get tender from the 3 reasons I gave, put her on sand or deep bedding in a small area, anything like that until she is not tender for a couple of weeks. Someone who knows how to trim correctly will know exactly how low she can be trimmed because certain landmarks and points on the bottom of the hoof will tell. They aren't all the same just like my fingernails are not like yours. It is very simple once you know what to look for.

He did just wack off level and left her with tin cans. If she is tender, it is because of the way she has to stand now. The tip of her coffin bone is pointing down more now than before, and it will degenerate, and is causing her tremendous pain unless someone can take her heels down and give her relief.

That happened to me with my minis around here so many times I gave up and taught myself. But I listened to advice, had knowledgeble people look at photos online, and read. If someone can show you, that would be wonderful. Even if you don't have to trim them yourself ever. Know what they are doing to your horses, its your money they are taking, and your horses depend on you.

 

[PaintMeFancy]

rubyviewminis - now there was some solid advice - well put and fairly understandable

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

In reality there is no "bloodline" like a dog or cat claw that would bleed and be sore if you nipped short and it bled, just like a hangnail.

No, but you CAN trim them too short and make them bleed because I HAVE done it. Not pretty and they were very, very sore.

 

[rubyviewminis]

Of course, everyone knows that or should. My point if it wasn't clear was that she still has a lot of extra wall, sole and frog to come off. But if one knows how to read the collateral grooves, and tell the difference between hard packed slick sole and flaky dead sole you would not file or nip far enough to hit blood. And you can see the change in wall and white line tissue to pink starting.

But yes, you made a good point. Too many times my brain goes faster than these arthritic fingers on the keyboard and I don't explain clearly enough.

I really wish I lived closer to you Kay, I would be right there and I would also kick your trimmer's arse.

 

[disneyhorse]

Good input, rubyviewminis...

I think a lot of people are just frustrated because advice was asked for, not taken, and now the poor horse has to suffer further because majority advice was ignored. We know that animals don't have a voice, and it's sad to see one in need not getting the proper help it deserves.

That said, I will reiterate that a new, knowledgeable farrier should attend to this little mare. The original farrier was clueless and has not corrected their work. We are told that "the big horses are just fine" but without evidence I'm strongly suspicious about the validity of that statement.

The health and well being of horses relies on knowledgable caregivers, from vet to farrier to owner. Any chinks in that chain can be disastrous. I feel bad for the horse(s) but a person cannot be forced to do the right thing if they're only hearing what they want to hear.

 

[kay56649]

Here's the frusterating thing that most of you don't have the issue of. He is the ONLY farrier within a 1 hour range of us that will come out and do the feet!! We called the only good farrier in town and he wont come out because he is booked (because he is the only good one) so I know most of you don't want to hear this, but we are stuck with our farrier so just good advice and pictures of correct hooves is all I can use for advice because he is the only farrier we can get right now! We have been looking and there isn't any! Maybe I can do hers myself if I can learn, but for now he is our only hope I know this is unfortunate but it's true!

 

[kay56649]

He has corrected the big horses feet and yes they are perfect! We have had a professional horseman that took 6 horses to the world show, a judge, and a pro horse trainer look at them. He just can't seem to get hers right! She is the only one we have been concerned about. I know your trying to help but it's not easy taking advice from people who are just telling me how terrible I am for making my mini suffer. Sorry but she is on the road to better feet and that's all that can be said at this point for her

 

[valshingle]

Can you expand your radius to 2 hours or more? Does your vet or local feed store have anyone they recommend. My own mini farrier is about 1.5 hours away and he often travels several hours to trim other barns. Is there a Vet clinic that has a good farrier that comes to them? Maybe you can haul your mare somewhere to meet a farrier. Does your local mini club know of anyone? Are there other mini owners in your area, or within a few hours? Are there shows nearby that you can haul her to in order to meet a farrier?

Try to think outside of the box on this.

Good luck!