My poor thin rescue Wauk A Way

[Shadows Fire]

Sounds like your doing what you can. Poor girl. Sometimes there is too much damage and you can't bring them back.

Hopefully this is just a glitch on her way to full health.

I always wonder WHY people starve them... Grrrr...

I know I helped my friend rescue 9 horses this winter. Some of them were in the 1's. They are all in good homes now. Boy it was expensive.

 

[Little Bits]

I will be the one to agree for the most part as to what has already been posted.

However where I disagree is in what type of hay your feeding. I would (IMO) feed last years timothy if you can get any. The drier the hay the better. New hay is fairly rich and they do get diarrhea from it. I have one horse that looks at anything grassy gets diarrhea from it. She maybe on rich hay overload. Alfalfa is extremely rich and while I realize what you are trying to do I would keep it simple and feed just a good plain timothy. Timothy has higher calories in it than Alfalfa. It adds calories with out stressing the system.

Also if your grain has a lot of sugar in it, it maybe bothering her stomach. A long time ago I had a mare that had severe ulcers they vet told me to take her off anything rich, hay and especially sweet feed grains, and to keep them on oats and pelleted feed and timothy. That mare did get better, but it took a long time to get her to a good place. That was before Gastro Gaurd, which is by far the best in treatment of ulcers.

Best of luck it sounds as though your really trying to do right by her. Good Luck

 

[kaykay]

I always wonder WHY people starve them... Grrrr..

Can I just step in for a second and say that Wauk A Way never starved horses. I was there many many times. Yes their horses are mostly out on pasture but they are also supplemented with hay and young horses and stallions are grained. Feature was actually too fat when I got him from too much grain. While they may not have used the same herd management others do they did breed and raise outstanding ponies and I hate to see people take away from what they did. I know tword the end there were some conflicts after Doc went to a nursing home but again I never saw them starve horses. This mare obviously has/had an underlying issue that led to this condition that was probably made worse with the stress of being trailered etc.

 

[Sue_C.]

This mare obviously has/had an underlying issue that led to this condition that was probably made worse with the stress of being trailered etc.

I would say though, that if this mare is only a "2" on the scale, she was one that definately had more going on than a stressful trailer ride. She obviously fell through the cracks along the way, and must of been there for awhile.

 

[MOJO]

I feel Marty is right on with the KISS...Severely emaciated horses need to come back slow, hay being the biggest part of their diet, and just plain old grass.Something to consider is that most vets treat the little guys same as full sized horses. Big problem here is,their intestines cannot handle tough course hay like the full sized horses can, alfalfa is very rich and can be very course. There is something else which comes out of left field, it happened to a mare of mine, only reason I will mention it.

This mare went to be bred, stayed a month, came home thinner and with screaming squirts, equine vet I worked for came out ran normal tests along with fecal, no answers. 3 weeks later my boss was out of town, had a fever on another horse had to call out another vet...did farm calls emergency only he was primarily small animal doc. Treated the geldings fever so what the heck asked him to look at the mare. He did another fecal no other tests, his tech called a couple hrs later, telling me to get to the office immediately to pick up antibiotics. They found coccidia when they ran the fecal. This is very unusual to see in a horse, my boss said she never even looked for that. Ran the antibiotics and she cleared up. Bad part about coccidiosis? (not sure if thats the correct name) is stress can cause the diarrhea to return. Just another thing to consider.If you opt to run a fecal, you would need to discuss this with them since it is rarely seen and not looked for or considered.

 

[Leeana]

I acquired a couple wauk a way ponies from Ellen recently that were recently shipped up here from the farm dispersal and seen the mare that Ellen is having trouble with....all of those Wauk A Way ponies at Ellens (except for this one in question) are fat, sleek and pretty much healthy besides small things you would expect of ponies coming from a large farm out of a broodmare pasture. She is really the only one that sticks out as being poor, almost sort of like a "milk cow" when I seen her a couple weeks back. Poor thing....thank god she is at Ellens as Ellen will do anything for what is in the ponies best interest..

 

[Ellen]

Thank you for coming on and helping Leanna. I will say Leanna and Kay are right, the Wauk A Ways are in great shape, but this mare is ill. All the others are in good shape, or fat just needing a little this or that like Leeanna says. And Leeana's analogy of her looking like an old milk cow is dead on. The big rush for the dispersal was because they were losing the farm help and KC was going back to work. But they had stopped the graining on all and they were all in the pasture.

I agreed to take a special needs case. I didn't anticipate this. But it is far beyond a stressful trailer ride. In her condition, I am amazed she made the trip up here. We did decide to begin TX with Flagyl for Salmonella, (sp)?. From what was explained to me it sounds as if it is similar to what Mojo described. Stress can bring it back on. So, as Dr. Bill explained she probably has had it for a long time. And possibly in Doc's abscence she was over looked. Probably she foaled and it brought her condition back. They way he explained it was that once they have it you keep them on the Flagyl until after the foal is weaned. Or post and prior to stress. So as of today at 5pm the regimen is, 1. Grain, SR 1C 5 times a day

2. GUT 2x's a day

3. Probios 2x's a day

4. Free choice hay

5. Flagyl 2x's a day

6. Sucralifate.

7. Bio Sponge in the evening.

As of 10pm her manure is loose, but not liquid. She is still on stall rest and hand walked several times a day by my son. Seems like a lot of supplements and I agree with keeping it simple, but she was worked up to this much. First hay, then 1 feeding a day then 2...... We started with crimped oats first, then SR at Dr's request. We did discontinue Gastro Gaurd for now. But Dr will return tomorrow on his rounds to check. All I can say is we are doing all we can.

 

[alphahorses]

I heard from my vet that they reformulated pepto and its not good for horses any more. (and THAT is a lot of pepto.)

My vet says the same. Pepto causes ulcers very quickly. She strongly advises against using it.

I agree with "keep it simple". You have to put weight on SLOWLY. If she's as bad as you say, you do not want her back in shape this month or even this summer. It might take 6 months to a year to get her back where she belongs. You'll founder or even kill her if do it too quickly.

Give her all the good-quality grass hay that she can eat (grass HAY - not grass - and certainly not alfalfa. That is about the worst thing you can feed if you're trying to get scours under control), add the grain SLOWLY ... beet pulp is okay ... and test her for worms before you dump any more wormer into her system. Probiotics is good.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Are you feeding one cup of grain on it's own, or are you providing some sort of bulk, such as soaked Beet Pulp or better still chop (chaff) with that?? One cup on it's own, I feel, you really might as well not bother. One cup mixed into a nice big feed is a different matter. Remember that horses need bulk in order to digest feed and keep the gut active,so that one cup might actually be causing the trouble.

One cup of feed mixed into "filler" will get digested, one cup of feed on it's own will pass through like a hot curry on a Friday night.....

 

[Ellen]

I appreciate the help, but I will resign to my vets advice. I don't think original posts have been read. Fecal floats have been done, blood work and then we treated.

1c grain with free choice hay, trying to get her used to it. She will not eat beetpulp. And quite frankly, I am hearing what you are saying, but are you hearing me?

This is not my first sick horse or rescue. I don't know everything. I made a mistake with the Pepto, used it twice. Now she is on Probies, grass hay, small amounts of grain, lots of water, prescribed meds and I hope it helps. GUT is an Ulcer aid with probies. Added probies don't hurt. I trust Dr. Bill's guidance.

Some of you quite frankly are hurtful. I am sorry I even asked advice. I would never speak to someone, as some of you are talking to me. Like and idiot.

 

[Shadows Fire]

If it wasn't a starvation case then obviously something else is causing the weight loss. That may make it much harder to bring her up to health. Hope you can get to the bottom of it soon. Did you check teeth? Or even an infection...course blood work would have shown that. Healing Reiki on its way.

 

[Sue_C.]

I guess it is a "time will tell" kind of thing. It is strange that nothing shows up in the bloodwork, yet it is continuing...

 

[MOJO]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a moment, I think that's what you call it...I think Ellen is drained both physically and emotionally, trying to help this gal. Now, with that said, it is hard to know how any comment is delivered when reading it. If there was audio it would be easier to know helpful from hateful. I have not read most so wouldn't dare make a judgement on any of them, heck I may be considered one of the hurtful ones. I apologize if mine was deemed hurtful, it was not my intention, and I do understand the toll this can take on you.

How 'bout we all take a deep breath, say a little prayer for the little mare and move forward. I for one would love to hear all is resolved in the weeks to come. So Ellen, please don't get angry we all handle things differently and sometimes our delivery isn't the greatest, but I think for the most part we are behind you all the way and only wish to help. Now as for the ones who aren't how about screaming at a pillow or the wall, a tree can handle it, but this lady has enough on her plate for now.

 

[~Lisa~]

Ellen I hear your frustration... I have had well still have one thin pony the other came a year prior and is just now after a year looking good. I would not put the first one at a score of 2 but the last one was pretty thin.

For me that is a problem with pasture feeding but that is a whole nother story lol

I was feeling like a mad scientist to figure it out and I didnt have to deal with the digestive issues you are so I can only imagine it makes it harder.

Alfalfa is the feed of choice for horses in poor condition and or starved horses recovering. So I think your grass/alfalfa mix is for sure on the right track.

I can only tell you what worked for me with the first one he gets hay(orchard/alfalfa)- 15 cups of soaked beet pulp which is a little over 3 lbs-

at the time he got 6 cups of race ready and 6 cups of jr- the grain portion once a day he is now down to only 3 cups of race ready.

After trying so many things the last thing I had to try was to get his energy up and once I got him feeling good with the race ready and playing and having some oomph everything else seemed to fall into place and I cut back on the race ready and he really started to fill out. It did take like I said almost a year.

Pony number 2 this same diet is not working quite as well with him and he seems to do better with more Race Ready compared to the Jr and he is getting more beet pulp.

Ponies do take a lot more in the way of feed compared to most minis and that is with a fit conditioned pony to start with.

It does take some time for the weight to come on and then for them to get muscle. I can only imagine how hard it is to add the digestive things going on. All I can say is hang in there and keep doing what your doing if you are seeing some results even though slight then you are on the right track.

I know with me after about 8 months I was so frustrated and then it seemed to almost happen overnight he just looked better and then really good much quicker then it took for me to even notice a slight difference

 

[whitney]

I'd like to know and talk with the vets that are saying that Pepto causes Ulcers. It's used to prevent and treat ulcers in humans its active ingredient is Bismuth Subsalicylate. See link www.medicinenet.com/tetracyclinemetronidazolebismuth_subsalicylate/article.htm

I personally have used Max Strength Pepto Bismal on a mini mare to stop projectile poop. Along with Kaolin/Pectin.

Just a word of caution don't believe and do everything a vet tells you, I would have lost my mare if I had.

I'd keep the horse on free choice good grass/alfalfa hay if she will eat a lot of it. Along with the pepto and kaolin. Soaked beet pulp without molassus works well too. Is she on any antibotics? These made my horse worse.

Kaolin is the same as bio sponge its clay. No concentrates! I understand she is a rack of bones but if she has runny poop its contributing to the problem. Concentrates are the hardest thing for horses to digest. And its running right through her anyway not putting weight on her. Treat your horse like you'd treat yourself. Lots of water (I'd put Gatoraide in her water if that makes her drink more my horses like it). And feed lots of easy to digest stuff, for horses that's hay and beet pulp.

Ellen I have been in your shoes and understand your fear and frustration. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

 

[Ellen]

I did apologize in another thread for my out burst Sue, and thank everyone for advice. But as helpful as many were, just go back thru and read how some things are worded. And I understand people read thru super quick, but one thing was continually overlooked, the scours had been there since she was unloaded. Supplements were added overtime as was everything. I have the Nutritionist from the feed mill working with me and 2 vets. And alot of you were very helpful. But as MOJO said, sometimes things in print can be taken in a different tone then intended. And MOJO, I did not take what you said as hurtful. I simply became overwhelmed and snapped.

So, again....I apologize. But please re read some of those comments and see how you may get hurt when you are trying to help an animal. And think of how you may feel. I approached it with an open mind, took some of the suggestions.

Lisa, Thank you for your help. We finally got her to take in some beetpulp. I think it helps her. I wrote down your info.

Whitney she is on Flagyl. So far, so good. We are trying to stick with all the easy to digest stuff. Like you said Concentrates are tough. That is why we chose Tribute Sr, it is beetpulp based and highly digestable. But small amounts all day. We are putting pedalyte in her water. She likes cherry. What ever works, right? She is drinking 10 gallons of water a day. I keep one with the pedalyte and one with out. She drinks both.

Thank you for the Pepto link. I don't understand it either. But I stopped using it just in case.

But, I would like to thank everyone.

 

[MOJO]

Prayers are with you Ellen, I come back, mainly to see if any progress has been posted. I know it can be a very long road, hopefully it will turn around soon. Sounds like she is a very lucky gal to be with you.

 

[jegray21]

I had a mini with colitis and we used something, I will look up the name, but he did not have to eat it. It was applied rectally. It cleared up his loose stool in 24 hours. Once the diarrhea stopped slowly gained weight. after several hundreds of dollars and misdiagnosis I had to take him to a vet hospital at the university near by and feel your frustration. My local vets are great but nothing beats a university with all of their testing equipment. we are lucky to have one an hour away. he was a bag of bones and it killed me to look at him suffer. I am so sorry you have to go through this with her! there the vets said the same as you are doing lots of small meals. they did say that it was hard to founder a skinny horse. anyway just thought I would share my experience is hopes maybe to help