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I did register BUT it was against my own better judgement. I think this is about the stupidest so-called law they have ever tried to impliment. I can see for cows, or pigs which go to market..but for horses..I'm sorry but I just dont agree with it at all. Also, if they are SOOO concerned about all our horses ..why when we filled out our forms and registered didnt they even ask us for HOW MANY animals we have??? I found that to be very odd. This is one law I wold like to see go right down the tubes before it even begins! Corinne
 
runamuk said:
shminifancier said:
Horses do not get foot and mouth,  And You do not Eat horses anyway. And the heck with the people in Europe who eat horse meat, there is sooo many drugs that are given to horses anyway that say NOT for animals intended for food, Bute, and ALL the other drugs given to horses don't stop the People over there from eating horses so WHY should they care anyway if there is an ID system....And that is why is should not be required for Non Food Animals... and the bird flu IMO is WAY over blown then it should be..
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interesting

but NAIS is something to blow out of proportion.......

cloven footed animals get foot and mouth...how about brucellosis.....etc....it isn't just human health it has to do with tracking potentially devastating diseases to other animals and food sources.......ok so for horses how about VS and strangles sure would be nice to get a heads up on where it came from and has been to attempt to stop the spread.........

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Rori,

Having raised and bred Sheep for a lot of years. There are already programs in place,, good programs for Sheep and goats. To ship lambs the paper work was unreal. Each lamb being shipped had to have many blood tests done, along with all the paper work and pass ports.

Talking with the Federal Vet about this.. when the final phase in 2008/9 comes along it will make it just shy of impossible to move any animals around. Us small Farmers are not going to be able to afford it.

He also doesn't believe this program will work.

If Avain flu comes (The type that people can get) it will be by Person to person. Not Chicken by chicken. Only way to get it chicken by chicken here is if someone imported infected Chickens Via Asia on purpose.

I don't want the Government in my life any more than it already is.

I want the freedom and right to have my animals. Animals that are well taken care of.

I don't want my animals to become part of the "Nation herd" with the Government having more rights to my animals than I do.

I don't want the Government to dictate how many animals I can have, what I can have, wither I can eat my own eggs.. or what ever.

I want to be able to ride my horse out my gate without having to pay lots of money for paperwork.

On and on it goes...
 
A few times every year a proposed Government bill goes through our St. Bernard mailing list regarding having mandatory spay/neuter of all dogs (no matter if show or breeding stock), banning breeding or making very expensive to do so

Not to hijack the thread, but on a somewhat related note I read that the Oregon DMV is strongly considering making it mandatory to have GPS on all registered vehicles and then charging people by how much they drive and where they drive.

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Scary stuff...at some point, "We The People" are going to have to join together and say no to this crap. Or all move to hills or something.

Daryl
 
Excellent

"We The People" are going to have to join together and say no to this crap."

The more we sit back and say nothing, go along with this crap, the more they will keep going.

We must stand up and say no more.

This will eventually cost everyone with livestock. It may be free to you now but they will have to fund this some how.

The man power alone to enforce this would be tremendous. Another one of those nice government jobs.

Most of us are not rich and can truly not handle more fees for mandatory government interference.

We choose to DNA, register our animals. WE CHOOSE, we don't have too.

Traci
 
Here is a letter concerning this ID and how to fight it.. I have permission to re post this in other forums~! Also you permission to copy this and send it your representatives~!



My letter to my Representatives regarding NAIS...critiques, please?

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I've pieced together a letter that I am going to send to my representatives based on several letters found on the Stop Animal ID website, as well as my own personal thoughts and because I have an awful time proof-reading something until I've moved away from the subject and come back at a later time, I thought I'd ask for help proof-reading this letter for content, repetitious statements, poor spelling/grammar, etc. Anyone want to help me out?

Here it is:

Dear Madam & Sirs:

As a taxpayer in the State of Kansas I am writing to say that I strongly oppose the implementation of the National Animal Identification System. Agribusiness, specifically The National Institute for Animal Agriculture (NIAA), lobbied the USDA (after 9/11 and subsequent BSE scares) to create the National Animal Identification System (NAIS) supposedly to protect U.S. citizens and their animals from diseases. The NIAA is composed primarily to two groups – (1) large corporate producers and (2) the makers and producers of animal ID equipment. In April 2002 a task force composed of the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) and over 30 livestock organizations provided leadership in creating the animal identification system. Small-scale farmers involved in animal husbandry, homesteaders, and animal hobbyists were not represented. Language quoted from the Draft Strategic Plan proves this, “APHIS then established the National Identification Development Team (NIDT), a joint, State, Federal, and industry group to further advance this effort. Throughout 2003, the NIDT, consisting of approximately 100 animal and livestock industry professionals representing more than 70 associations, organizations, and government agencies, expanded upon the work plan to produce the initial draft of the U.S. Animal Identification Plan (USAIP).†(Plan, p. 4) While associations, organizations, etc. may be backing the NAIS, they did not inform their members of this proposed legislation. Chances are the members still have no idea that their freedoms are being given away.

I am writing in opposition of the National Animal Identification System because:

(1) Should the NAIS become law, we will be forced to pay fees to register our farms and animals. “Even with public funding, there will be costs to producers.†(Plan, p. 11)

(2) We will be forced to report to the national animal records repository within a short-term specified time frame the birth, death, loss of identification device, sale, or movement of any animal in our possession.

(3) We will be required to report to the national animal records repository when an animal we own attends a livestock show, participates in a trail ride, is transported to another farm for stud service, or takes part in a community parade, etc.

(4) Our personal information collected through NAIS could be disclosed – “…the USDA cannot assure the confidentiality of all the information at the present time.†(Plan, p. 15) Financial institutions were not able to keep this information confidential, so it is no surprise that USDA cannot guarantee confidentiality.

(5) The NAIS will violate the religious beliefs of minority faith communities by requiring them to become part of this computerized, technology-dependent system or abandon the livestock ownership necessary for their way of life. (Many adherents raise their own food animals and use animals in farming and for transportation. Some, by scriptural teaching, would refuse to take the “mark†of such a numbering system.)

(6) Our livestock would become part of the “national herd.†(Plan, p. 8)

Not only would small farm operators be negatively affected by the NAIS, but this legislation will do serious damage to feed store owners, farm supply houses, hatcheries that sell and ship day-old poultry, and other businesses frequented by farmers.

The most common types of meat contamination in the U.S. are the occurrences of pathogens such as listeria or E.coli in processed meat. When meat becomes contaminated at a large packing plant, millions of consumers in all 50 states are exposed to the dangerous product. Government should enact a law to closer scrutinize the large commercial food sources such as the giant broiler operations, the feed yards that produce beef, the large commercial turkey operations, and laying houses, etc. Because of over-crowded conditions and the general biological by-products of animal production, these are the places most likely to contribute in the spreading of infectious disease, not on the premises of small producers. If our government is indeed concerned with BSE, why does it not test every slaughtered animal?

Because small-scale farmers were not informed of this proposed legislation, it appears that they are willing to enter a ‘voluntary’ program as a justification of making the NAIS mandatory. We are not. Please protect the rights of those who have had no representation and, ironically, the very ones that have the most to lose – our very way of life.

Implementing the NAIS is a move that I would associate with a Communist type of government, one where the citizens have no rights but are commanded by the Government in every facet of life. This program would create millions of criminals out of honest people in the small family farms and those who refuse to surrender their rights without a fight.

The projected estimate for implementation of this plan is 33 billion dollars. Let that sink in for a second. $33,000,000,000.00 to simply implement the plan. That doesn’t include the costs to maintain it once it’s begun. That is $115.78 for every single man, woman and child in the US. It does not include the costs for farmers to microchip their animals either, so those who raise the food get to pay even more for this plan.

This plan cannot and will not do anything to make our food supply safer at all. It’s purportedly necessary to protect us from potential bio-terrorism. How? It’s impossible to protect anything through registration. The only thing that can be done is to trace it’s movements from point A to B to C, on and on ad infinitum, and destroy the small holder’s ability to provide for themselves. This plan will create a veritable monopoly by corporate agriculture and thereby seriously endanger our national economy and our food supply by creating a society that is 100 percent dependent on the government for their food needs. We saw what happens when people rely solely on the government when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans. How many thousands of individuals were incapable of making their way to safer ground? How many thousands REFUSED to make their way to safer ground because they felt 'entitled' to be rescued by the government? I live in southwest Kansas in a small, rural community and yet I heard of the possible devastation that hurricane Katrina was likely to produce long before the storm reached shore, why is it then that those in the path of the storm did not take the necessary steps to ensure their safety? The answer to that question is because already we have millions of American citizens completely dependent on the government for their every need. Those of us who value self-sufficiency and personal responsibility reject this mindset wholeheartedly!

If the real purpose of NAIS is to track the food supply for instances like mad cow disease then:

1) NAIS is not necessary for horses, donkeys, guardian animals or other non-food animals - these animals are not going to enter the human food chain in our country and should NOT be tracked by the government. There are already safeguards in place for preventing the spread of disease in horses. Regulations that would require implantation of a chip to track movement and registration of premises keyed to Global Positioning System coordinates is an invasion of privacy and makes no sense for a hobby farmer who raises alpacas or a family with a pet pony.

2) NAIS is not necessary for sales direct to the consumer from the farm. In these cases there is already far better tracking of the food chain. I buy meat and eggs from small family farms in my area. I am more confident in the safety of food raised on small farms, and I fear I will lose the freedom to select my food in this way if NAIS is forced on individuals who may have to give up farming if they cannot afford expensive RFID readers or cannot keep up with the excessive reporting required by NAIS.

3) NAIS should not be at all involved with people who are raising livestock for their own family consumption. They know exactly where the food came from - they raised it. There is no need to have any government involved in our own kitchens and food that we raise in our own backyards. I see raising food for our families as a basic human right that should not be interfered with by government.

4) NAIS is a violation of the religious freedoms of Americans whose beliefs make it impossible for them to comply. For example, the Amish choose to farm and live without technology according to their beliefs and this system is a threat to their way of life.

NAIS is being implemented too broadly. To include the above groups suggests the government has ulterior motives and is trying to invade people's privacy. There should be exemptions for the above groups.
 
In theory perhaps the NAIS isn't a bad thing, but in actual fact I believe there are some useless aspects to it. Here in Canada we already have an ear tag thing for cattle. I know some guys that have had an animal lose its ear tag--and so all they can do is replace that tag with one of their own farm tags....which kind of defeats the purpose of the ID program as that cow's history is now gone.

Gun control--here guns are now strictly regulated; the government is supposed to know who has guns & exactly how many guns each person owns. Mmmhmmm, and the bad guys still have guns that they use to commit crimes...their guns aren't registered. Just recently on the radio was the news about a fellow who was banned from having a gun in his possession; however, he was granted special permission to use a gun during hunting season this fall. According to the news story, after hunting he apparently retained the gun and used it to kill a young police officer when she went to his door in response to some noise complaint. Yep, gun control at its finest!

Then there is NAFTA--we need more & more paperwork to transport anything (horses especially, I don't deal with cattle directly so won't go there!) across the Canada/US border...we need bar code stickers to haul a horse into the US...a friend was telling me about the hassle she had obtaining her bar codes, & I told her that she shouldn't complain because in another year or two we'll probably have to have a bar code stuck to our own butts in order to get back & forth across the border! Grin & bare it...I mean bear it, I think big brother is around to stay.

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shminifancier said:
I am not going to argue on here about freedom  we still can travel from State to State without showing Papers...But as more and more of THESE kind of programs are out into place we are NOT that far away..And we still have our Guns~!!.
Yeah, well don't get caught traveling without papers (ie. health certificates).......the laws have been in place for years about traveling with health certificates so as far as tracking interstate travel with an animal? THAT has been in place for years.
 
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I don't want the Government in my life any more than it already is.

I want the freedom and right to have my animals. Animals that are well taken care of.

I don't want my animals to become part of the "Nation herd" with the Government having more rights to my animals than I do.

I don't want the Government to dictate how many animals I can have, what I can have, wither I can eat my own eggs.. or what ever.

I want to be able to ride my horse out my gate without having to pay lots of money for paperwork.

On and on it goes...

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Shari,

You said it perfectly! This is one more way for government to get their fingers into individual's lives.

I was under the belief that WE THE PEOPLE have a say when new "TAXES" and new Rules were to be implemented by the power of the VOTE.

This smells like "Big Brother" is trying to take over.

The only good thing about all this is that it sounds like such a huge undertaking -- I cannot believe the government will be able to pull it off successfully. Unfortunately they will discover this, fall flat on their faces, all at the expense of THE PEOPLE.

What dork thought this whole idea up anyway???

MA
 
From everything that I've read about this program I can't see any long term benefit to the equine industry and most other livestock breeders. There are a number of groups (poultry, goats, etc) that have some very concerned breeders that raise unique/old breeds, organic or just small in size and realize this will increase the costs to market their end products - eggs, meat and breeding animals with all the added costs to manage paperwork, chipping, etc.

One very vehement person was discussing how large commercial farms will get around the tagging, as they'll claim their product (in this case chickens) are short term 'meat birds', so tagging would be unnecessary.

It's amazing to me how easily the USA is being lead down the path to very tightly controlled, in your business government mandating everything. The Patriot Act was scary enough, so now they're moving to other 'scare' tactics for this too. A bit off this topic, but here in California the new program is scaring people into convincing them that mandatory pre-school saves society as those that don't attend have a higher chance of ending up in jail! Scary, how they manipulate us into believing things.

There is a joke that originated in the old Soviet Union about a man

who had to get a permit number to open a small business. He

approached a policeman and asked him,"Sir I need to get a business

number where do I go to get it?" The policeman replied, " you can

get a number in that building across the square,but you will need a

number to get into that building." To which the man replied "and

where do I get that number?" To which the policeman replied,"In that

building across the square."

Some of the recent bills in the different house of legislature have been about transporting horses, appropriate care, etc. We really need to be careful of wording that can't come back to bite us later! PETA and other groups will manipulate situations as needed and the continued growth industry - becoming a lawyer - they're all willing to sue over some of the most stupid things.

Off my soapbox.
 
shminifancier said:
I am not going to argue on here about freedom  we still can travel from State to State without showing Papers...But as more and more of THESE kind of programs are out into place we are NOT that far away..And we still have our Guns~!! But that may come to end also if more and more of THESE kind of regs are Put into place. case closed..
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Yes you can but just cause you choose to break the law and not have health papers for your horses (going by past posts from you on this one) doesnt mean animals can travel state to state without them..

I dont know for me i dont find it that big of a deal I am not doing anything wrong with my breeding, my animals are healthy, I am zoned for what I have and i dont see it as a huge issue

granteds i think there are much bigger issues our country could be spending money on but well whatever i save my outrage for things like petifiles and rapists going free and the fact a woman is beaten in her own home every 10 seconds
 
Yes most of you people really got the wrong impression when I was talking about "show your papers please" That was what is WAS like in the old USSR... We were Talking Freedom and USA not hauling animals here when I said Yes we can still go From State to State without "Showing Papers Man of man. you guys... Oh well.. Of course then I have hauled for years and years with out any papers without any coggins and crossed State lines all the time as resent as last spring~! But I was not talking about it in that way.....But when I said ""Show me your papers"" I was comparing USSR to the USA, ,And IF more and more of these inane laws do come into effect, then Not Only with we have a Bar Code on forehead..BTW that is already underway by some people I guess,,, Uff DA And of course we still have our guns, and not ONE of mine are recorded anyplace~! Cool...
 
Lisa you should care.

If this goes through like I think it will, if we can't get enough people to pay attention.

In 2008/9....final phase..

Your horses will become part of the "National Herd". That means that they belong to the Gov not you. Doesn't matter if you own them, have registry papers on them in your name.

At any time they can come in and take your horses no matter how much you paid for them. If they are in what they call the disease zone there is a good chance that all animals in that area will be put down. Without the owner having any recourse. They have done it within the Scrapie program that is all ready in place.

They will also be restricting travel and requiring more spendy paperwork. All for National Security.

Right now if things go the way NSIA want it to. I will not be able to take my horse to the mail box or ride in the 100's of acres of tree farm off the back of my place.

With out a Health certificate, coggins,, and what ever else they will need, at my cost.

I am out in the middle of no where and not likely to meet another rider out there at all.

If they put those tracking tags in.. they will not have to come to my place to see where I have been.

My horses are not part of the food chain. I doubt very much some Terroriest is going to tamper with my horses. Any fool that Tresspasses is going to have a shot gun pointed at him/her. The Government doesn't have any business sticking their nose where it doesn't belong.

If I want to egg one of my Hens really good eggs. I should be able to,, it is my choice and my hen for the time being. Trust the eggs layed here 1,000's of times more than the store bought eggs.

Again,, what the Government wants to do is wrong on many, many levels.
 
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Shari said:
Again,, what the Government wants to do is wrong on many, many levels.
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Shari you couldn't be more right. I really think that everyone should take time out to read 1984 or watch the movie. If you've already read it, most likely it was years ago. Get it out and read it again. It couldn't be more accurate, just got the decade wrong.

Bottom line is, this is just one more way to track us and one more way for the government to fatten their pocket book and continue to waste money (which seems to be about the only thing they know how to do
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). This is NOT about saving lives or animals. NOT. If our animals were such a threat to us, we'd have all been diseased and dead LONG ago. It's just another excuse for the government...well, if you haven't gotten it by now, you NEED to read that book to get a clue.
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PS, we got our guns too and they aren't getting them.
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I heard last night on the science channel that the New Volvo,,will have head lights that will turn as you turn a corner... NOT by you turning the Steering wheel Like other cars have done in the past and some today do... BUT by GPS Satellites~!!! Yup you then in that car can be tracked no mater where you go~!! Now of course they said Because of ""Of Safety concerns"" this was being done..Ya right~! and I have some ocean front property for sale in AZ.
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Yuppers Big Brother IS Alive and well~!!
 
I am sorry but I am not about to jump on a bandwagon based on paranoia especially when promoted by a person who has illegal guns and admits to illegally transporting animals.......I am not inclined to break the law and certainly am not going to take the word of someone who proudly proclaims they do
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I have read and re read and do not see where I am losing my rights by voluntarily participating in something I think may have some benefit.........

You all want to stop the neglect of horses and get bent when no one does anything.........

Everyone screams how the government should DO something about this disease and that disease...............

Everyone whines about people bilking the system.......................

BUT god forbid the government take steps to make changes that would potentially resolve some of these things......and it changes to big brother government takeover.............................

Either we want the government involved or we don't...with this country's government isn't it obvious you cannot have it both ways
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so the next time you start whining about how SOMEONE should do something I may come back and remind you about this topic
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btw the only general search that turned up anti NAIS was some absolute religious zealot....and the amish.....hmmm on horse boards I hear all about their treatment of their animals...on dog boards I hear how many puppymills they run.....naw couldn't be any of that.........

and as for the forum Shari posted there is not one NAME on there or information at all about the founders of the movement very anonymous.....wonder how many mills are participating in that......oh sorry commercial puppy kennels....
 
Rori,

I am not jumping any where. Have gotten a lot of information from very reliable sources.. including a Federal Vet that doesn't think the NSIA is going to work.

It will take away our rights to own animals in time.

I personally know of friends that did not believe me until this week and now have to give their name/Address/ and Drives licence number to buy feed for their animals..the reason they were given "National Security".

These people have no interest in hurting others and I really don't think terrorists are going to want to posion chickens, goats or what ever of the small Farm owner.

The only ones that are over reactting or going off the deep end if you would like, is the Government.

I don't want to live in a Police state,, and that is where this is all heading.

If they control the food, they control the people.

I for one and do not personally know anyone that has told the Government to get any Disease under control. We have Vets to help us when it is needed.

(Except Cancer in people.)

Nor have a said," stop all slaughter of livestock including horses". Good Clean well run slaughter houses will always be needed.

They need to regulate what is in place now.

The Government can't keep up with the programs it has now,, and is not doing a very good job of it.

I know.. I was in the Scrapie program a long time...when it first started.

Also knew of many people both in the program and others that refused. I have seen with my own eyes what had gone on.

There are many programs in place already that work but at the same time allow us to be able to live without having big brother track our animals every move.

With horses if we go to shows or big rides we already need our Health Certificate, Coggins and Brand inspections.

The NSIA is not going to get everyone in the system,, the ones that don't want to be honest now or later aren't going to do what the Government wants. Reguardless of the threats of jail or high fines.

That web site was started by a lot of Homestead/small Farm folks that don't want the Government to have more control over the animals we have than they have already.

"I" don't want them to have control over my animals.

By allowing the NSIA to run rough shod over good citizens is a crime in itself.

If they were so up front and honest,, why didn't they announce this over National Television when they first started this? What do they have to hide?

Why isn't it put to a vote to every citizen in this country?

What happened to "By the People for the People"?
 
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Shari. not to argue but just for the record there are already states where your horse has to have a coggins to travel anywhere in the state even if it is 1 mile down the road or to the house 2 down from you -

brand inspections well coming from CA a state who doesnt have them I cant tell you if they work only been using them for a few years here but I can see the reason for them do they really work I dont know .

I am not saying it is an issue that doesnt matter I am saying that to me in the list if issues I am opting to get passionate about it isnt at the top of the list at this point.

shminifancier..

I understand your side of the argument but I think you would get more to listen to you if you didnt proudly talk about how you dont care about others horses and or there health by stating how you always have and always will transport horses with no health papers and proudly own unregistered guns
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not really a personal attack although I do realize it sounds or reads like that just a observation really
 
I just think the whole thing is bull.

A lot of nothing but government bureaucracy.

And it's never going to fly anyhow.

I can just see the I D Police coming up the mountain wanting to enforce this thing. What a hoot.

It's a no win situation, because just like the coggins test, there are many ways people have gotten around it.
 
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As you know WI is already under this. Yes my horses are registured as well as probably many others.

THey are doing this for diesese control. IF it is like the other programs, if a horse or related species comes down with something deadly that can spread to others with in so much radius, I do think they will put them down.

That is going on already with other programs. My aunt due to other animals is licensed under the USDA. She has to have her deer TB tested every so many years. IF any of them ever came back with a positive result, they would all be killed along with any others with in so many miles(this includes cattle and anything else that can get TB.

I see it working just like the USDA does.
 

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