Neck sweating...Isnt this cheating????

[slaneyrose]

Ok....I know I`m gonna get it in the neck for this one but........

This neck sweating business....It entails tightly binding something around a horses neck or throat so it must feel a bit like its being choked, the results are temporary and do change the neck a lot from examples I`ve see.....so dont you think this is tantamount to cheating as much as body dying etc???? When it comes to confirmation its being radically changed so you may chose to use/buy a horse after seeing it in the show ring but its genetically gonna produce something completely different....bit like cosmetic surgery????

I was looking at a site that sells neck and throat sweats and it warned blistering may occur if left on too long!!! Surely this proves its over the top??

Does anyone else feel this way???

Ok, you can start the stone throwing now!!

 

[user 488]

..It entails tightly binding something around a horses neck or throat so it must feel a bit like its being choked, the results are temporary and do change the neck a lot from examples I`ve see.....so dont you think this is tantamount to cheating as much as body dying etc???? When it comes to confirmation its being radically changed so you may chose to use/buy a horse after seeing it in the show ring but its genetically gonna produce something completely different....bit like cosmetic surgery????

I was looking at a site that sells neck and throat sweats and it warned blistering may occur if left on too long!!! Surely this proves its over the top??

First of all sweating should not make a horse feel choked. If a horse feels choked then the person does not know what they are doing. If a horse was choked he would eventually pass out. No doubt people need to learn how to do things properly as anything can hurt an animal if done without proper knowledge.

Second...neck sweating is not a permanent confOrmational change. It does NOT alter confOrmation. It only sweats out the extra fluid in the neck or whatever you are sweating. If not done constantly the neck will go back exactly the way it was. It cannot even be remotely classified as "surgical alteration"!

And yes there are some products that will blister but there are some people that don't have good sense......just like products for humans.......thus the warnings. Some people don't know the difference between neoprene and fleece. One kind is made to work in the other is made to wear all the time.

If you know what you are doing you will not hurt the horse. Unfortunately there is a lot of "monkey see, monkey do"................

Added to say......when a person does not understand something they can get the wrong ideas or come to wrong conclusions about what is really happening. (perfect example..your remarks....a process you are obviously not familiarwith) There are many things that people find abusive or wrong only because it is a unknown to them and they really don't understand the principle behind it.

 

[Jill]

If you feel like it's cheating, what about clipping, dying sunbleached manes, hoof black, heck, making them exercise more than they would "naturally" on their own?

 

[CLC Stables]

Neoprene left on blisters...............most of us use LINED sweats that don't blister and wick the sweat away.

 

[nootka]

I don't feel it's cheating. I pretty much assume that it is done w/most horses and I look past it.

You can't sweat the "ugly" out of a neck (i.e., one that is set in badly or shaped badly) so it is not a conformational change, rather a slight improvement on what's already nice.

I do it to a limited degree and I have not made a horse choke or pass out and my hands can always slide in alongside the sweat. I also don't start sweating til before a show, and sometimes not much more than a few days in advance.

I DID however burn a horse last year b/c he'd torn away the inner protective fleece lining and combined with high temps at the show (100 degrees+), so I did not check on him in the hours before his class and I made a mistake. I have learned from that mistake and luckily it was not super bad or blistering or anything, it just made him peel and act itchy. I feel awful about it, though.

Use your common sense, knowledge and ability to read and research something and then choose to either do or don't do it. There are winners on every level that do all of the "temporary modifcations" such as sweating, clipping, balding, hoof polish, etc., and then there are winners that do some of them, and even some that do none of them, so it's your choice for your situation, that's the beauty of a free country and freedom of choice.

There will be those that agree with you about the extremity, but I'm not alarmed a bit by it. I do however think it's too bad that there are horses that pretty much live in full sweats, but I rarely see that and the ones that do have sweats on for show purposes don't seem to mind a lot.

Liz M.

 

[Minimor]

It's kind of a temporary enhancement & IMO not a whole lot different than the careful conditioning & dieting that show horses go through. Sure, it trims the neck/throat, but it's nothing like actual cosmetic surgery where some part of the horse is permanently altered, possibly to an extreme. Like Liz said, sweating doesn't change the basic conformation of the neck.

If you're "fooled" by a sweated neck, then you'll also be "fooled" by good conditioning & a horse that is slimmed down by diet--if you buy that wonderful looking horse & then take him home & turn him out to stand in the shade while he eats his face off....he's very soon going to look nothing like the horse you bought, it won't just be the sweated neck that is different!! :lol:

edited to add: If the neoprene sweats come with a warning about blistering if left on too long, that's a good thing as hopefully it will prevent a first time user--who doesn't know neoprene isn't to be left on 24/7--from hurting their horse.

 

[slaneyrose]

Do all you flame throwers

feel you can tell a sweated neck from a non sweated one??? And I disagree that its the same as hoof polishing or clipping because its more like colour dying the body, Everybody clips so you can see the body underneath clearly and if they dont, you can see it, this neck sweating is changing the confirmation by a form of temporary liposuction, which is what I meant by cosmetic surgery (I obviously meant in a temp way).......I guess it is a bit like the extreme show diet thing (although a little silly to make out that if someone is not doing the show diet regime they are allowing the horse to "eat its head off") but where do we draw the line so you can see what that stallion or mare is going to pass on genetically if you have one of its offspring.....thats my point!

I have a mare which recently came to Ireland from U.S and she is beautiful.....BUT she has a VERY thick, fat crest and she is most certainly not overweight, but her crest wobbles when she trots and I wonder if this has been caused by human interference to make her look good in the show ring as i have never seen anything quite like it! If anyone can shed light on why this might be or have seen it before I`d love to hear from them. I didnt mean to offend anyone by the way......it just seems extreme to "resculpture" a horse to the extent of this temporary liposuction technique. JMO

 

[user 488]

Do all you flame throwers

feel you can tell a sweated neck from a non sweated one??? , this neck sweating is changing the confirmation by a form of temporary liposuction, which is what I meant by cosmetic surgery (I obviously meant in a temp way

Good grief......I don't see anyone here flaming you at all. You are entitled to your opinion, but I must say that it's not a very educated one as liposuction is an invasive thing and sweating is not. You don't like it? Don't do it. But remember when a horse goes to a SHOW.......it's exactly that........a HORSE SHOW! You go looking your best. No different than an athlete or no different than a beauty pageant. An athlete would look pretty silly if he wasn't fit for his event and person would look pretty silly in a beauty pageant if they were not fit and groomed with great hair and proper make-up.

I have a mare which recently came to Ireland from U.S and she is beautiful.....BUT she has a VERY thick, fat crest and she is most certainly not overweight, but her crest wobbles when she trots and I wonder if this has been caused by human interference to make her look good in the show ring as i have never seen anything quite like it! If anyone can shed light on why this might be or have seen it before I`d love to hear from them. I didnt mean to offend anyone by the way......it just seems extreme to "resculpture" a horse to the extent of this temporary liposuction technique. JMO

What you are talking about here (without actually seeing it) is a "broken crest". It has nothing to do with sweating.

And again, you cannot change change a bad neck to a good neck. I don't understand where you get the idea that you can make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Not going to happen. You are just getting your horse in the best possible condition in order to compete. And again, if you don't like it..........don't do it. But I certainly would not waste my time showing an animal that wasn't fit and groomed properly for the showring. But I guess it all depends on what your goals are..

And BTW........I don't think you have offended anyone either.

 

[disneyhorse]

My horses aren't sweated, and I figure if they can place in the show ring against sweated horses, then more power to them!

Sometimes a horse's neck will get thicker with age... generally after 3-4 years for some reason they get a fatter neck (not really the geldings though) I think due to breeding and hormones.

That said, your mare may have a thyroid problem, it can affect neck thickness. Only your vet can determine for sure.

I don't think neck sweating does a HUGE amount to the neck, it's more for that "little extra edge" in the show ring... a short fat neck will always be a short, fat neck no matter HOW much you sweat it.

Andrea

 

[Becky]

I don't have a problem with neck wraps that temporarily remove water (sweat) from a horses' neck. What I do have a problem with is invasive procedures such as electric accupuncture to reduce fat in necks as well as liposuction to remove fat. The pencil thin necks you see in the show ring here are likely the results of those procedures.

If you can't breed a horse with a good neck, surgically altering it is not going to genetically change the breed.

Your mare with the fat deposits in her neck could very likely be suffering from insulin resistance or Cushings. It likely has nothing to do with neck sweating.

 

[Sue_C.]

she has a VERY thick, fat crest and she is most certainly not overweight, but her crest wobbles when she trots and I wonder if this has been caused by human interference to make her look good in the show ring

Actually, what you discribe sounds like she had been too fat, and was later fitted-up. Had the neck been sweated...this would likely NOT have happened. I don't think that sweating changes the shape of the neck, per se, but it can prevent a huge crest from developing.

I would be careful of a horse with this type of crest, as I have been told it might be more likely to founder.

All the jowl-sweating, or neck-sweating in the world is going to make a crappy neck change enough to make it look good, it is only useful as a tool to help enhance an already good neck. I find it no different than placing extra sheen on particular parts of the body; to help draw the eyes and help enhance muscle mass, etc...

 

[Lauralee]

If you don't like neck sweating, ....then don't do it! And don't buy a horse that has been sweated if it bothers you that much.

See? Problem solved.

:

 

[bfogg]

I also would get that mare checked for thyroid I know many of our minis do have that problem.

Good luck and I think it is always good to hear different peoples opinion on things!

This is a interesting thread thank you for starting it.

Bonnie

 

[user 488]

If you don't like neck sweating, ....then don't do it! And don't buy a horse that has been sweated if it bothers you that much.

See? Problem solved.

:

:lol: Great answer Lauralee! :lol:

 

[Jill]

You know what, if I really believed you and I thought neck sweating was a form of liposuction, even temporary, well tell me where to get a full body sweat for ME!

 

[randy]

If you don't like neck sweating, ....then don't do it! And don't buy a horse that has been sweated if it bothers you that much.

See? Problem solved.

:

:lol: Great answer Lauralee! :lol:

I dont like the horse sweating thing much either and I prob wouldnt buy a horse who had been sweated!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

:

 

[Cathy_H]

It's not cheating any more than exercising the horse to get in shape or cutting back on hay to get the belly down............. We don't sweat the necks & our horses have always done fine in the show ring. May have beat one or two more at times if we did but I prefer not to have our horses necks wrapped like that............. Cheating is the neck surgery that is done to make the throat latch smaller. I always look at the pictures in the magazines now to see if I can tell. Sometimes you see a very slight indentation on the front of the neck.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Neck sweating will remove excess water temporarily, and can clean up the look of a horse's throat latch/neck, but it won't correct a truly thick, cresty, short or low neck set.

Improperly using sweating agents can burn/blister a neck - why care needs to be given when using sweats. Most neck warmers or fleece lined neoprene just help tighten things up without altering the appearance greatly. There is a great difference from enhancing appearance to altering it permanently.

Halter classes are the equivelant of a beauty pageant. if Miss Connecticut came to the the Miss America contest without a bra, her legs unshaven and no makeup, well she might be gorgeous and extremely accomplished, but chances are she wouldn't win!

 

[Sun Runner Stables]

I have got to agree with Jill (!!!! :lol: !!!!) Who always makes me laugh! Neck sweating would be akin to taking those dieratics (sp?) for people. It does Not changes the fact that (me for example) I am predisposed to be large busted and have 'saddle bags' it'll just reduce the excess water, It certianly won't change My conformation!

Also I use neck sweats to help keep clothing on. Putting on the larger neck wraps on loose will prevent the horses from reaching around and turning themselves naked.

My colt Dudley who you all have seen a Million times, has a teeny pencil thin neck. (Well heck a thin everything, he's just so teeny and refined the brat) The Only times he ever wears anything is before/at a show, and to keep clothes on... he's just naturally thin necked... Here's his ragged Liz pic that's also in my avatar, in case you can't tell from the grass belly, he was whipped out of the pasture that morning, clipped and bathed.

No sweating, no nothing... however, as he matures, if he got a thicker neck would I sweat? You betcha. It's not a flame thing, just an expression of opnions, though I have to agree with the beauty pagent thought, if you don't want to play the game, it's awfully hard to play with others!

 

[slaneyrose]

If you don't like neck sweating, ....then don't do it! And don't buy a horse that has been sweated if it bothers you that much.

See? Problem solved.

Wow...wasnt expecting such aggression....didnt you see the ???? at the end of my thread title???

I dont like the horse sweating thing much either and I prob wouldnt buy a horse who had been sweated!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Thank you Randy, was feeling a bit like a piece of charcoal there for a minute

Thanks to Sue C, Bonnie and Cathy H for the helpful comments I was looking for. I`m a bit confused tho....I thought it was the underside of the neck that was sweated not the crest???? My mare has lost some weight since she came here as I wanted to loose the crest....so I will see about getting her thyroid checked. Wouldnt there be other symptoms if she had a thyroid problem tho??

And I`m appalled that some people actually DO have surgery done on their horses necks!!!! I have learnt SO MUCH since I joined here. Thanks everyone.......well, most of you!!