~*NEED HELP AND ADVICE URGENTLY*~ UPDATE

[christina_ski]

As much as I hate to say it, and I Really Do hate to say it, I think you need to invest in some poison and put it out. I once had a pet die of poisoning in my arms and always thought it was a horrible thing but with your circumstances you really need to do something. Since you can't shoot them I'd try something quieter, less conspicuous and it would be really difficult to prove that you were responsible. Of course you'd have to keep your outside animals up where they couldn't get to it.
Another idea, depending on how big an area would have to be done, is to put a row of 2" welded wire up along your cattle panels. I did that around my yard to keep my dogs from slipping through the fence.

Whatever you do I definitely wish you luck!

ETA If you have to call the authorities again I'd be sure and ask for the first officer who came out. Hopefully you remember his name and can ask for him specifically.

Going to let the law take care of the problem. And I am going to talk to my uncle on monday, he is the fire chief in the next town over. And he knows quite a few offivers. And I am sure he would know the ones we have been talking to. I want him to talk to them. Maybe having a man, instead of 2 girls, talk to theses officers is what needs to be done.

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

Can you put hot wire up on the outside of your pasture at the level of the dogs? Or at the bottom of the fence if they are going under the fence to get it? Maybe a few volts of juice would change their minds about chasing the horses.

 

[Minimor]

Buy the stuff now--preferably not too close to home--for use later...and be sure to dispose of the wrapping/packaging somewhere that it cannot be traced to you. If the dog owner files a complaint you do not want any evidence found in your possession--and you will be the first suspect since you've now made complaints and are so close. I would even suggest having this thread deleted!

These are no longer innocent dogs--because of their owner's stupidity they have become problem dogs and something must be done about them.

What a crock of BS you got from the 2nd officer. I am so disappointed that it's gone this way.

Here if you filed a complaint and presented the video as evidence I'm quite certain the court would issue a destruction order for each and every dog shown running horses on the video. It is the law that any dog caught harassing livestock can be killed--shot on the spot by the livestock owner, or euthanized as per a destruction order issued by the court if the livestock owner does not have a gun or if the property is in a populated area where shooting is not safe or legal. I wouldn't be surprised if such is the case there too, and this last officer is just not sympathetic to horse owners--he's quite possibly just giving you his interpretation of the law. I would most definitely check that out further so that you know what your rights are in regard to shooting these dogs.

I love the first excuse, that this guy's dogs aren't the only ones that are chasing your horses...as if that makes it okay for his dogs to be chasing the horses. That would go right along with a neighbor saying well, you ride/drive your horses therefore it must be okay if I want to come over and ride/drive your horses too. Some people are so incredibly DUMB

 

[bevann]

Please don't use poison. You are putting your own animals at risk since you can't control what those dogs will do with the poisonand where they might drag it and some horses will eat anything.My horses love dog and cat food. I don't have a solution, but I hope you can get it resolved soon.I am sorry for your problem.

 

[Marty]

I don't want to see anyone be killing any animals period, dogs or horses and I am also concerned that one day these dogs can come after you.

In our county we have someone called a Magistrate and that is someone who works as a mediator between two parties who have all sorts of problems. They try to help settle things out of the courts in peace. It is through the court house and sherrif department. Please see if that is available to you. Then maybe they can go over to the neighbors and try to negotiate this situation and ask them to do some serious fencing for their dogs, talk to them about fencing options and hot wire. And also, I think they should pay you for any extra fencing you may need for back up such as hot wire also. I always hope for a peaceful solution if at all possible.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

OMG Christina,

This is terrible news all the way around!

You, your horses and those dogs are all innocent in this and those idiots that you live next to are the ones who need punishing. Make sure your loser neighbors realize that they WILL be liable for anything that happens to your horses. Money talks. And even stupid people understand it! Remember what happened to Dixi from here on the forum? What she had was horrible with so many deaths and aborted foals, but in the end her loser neighbor was made by the court to pay Dixi. And pay he did!!!

 

[susanne]

You said earlier that these neighbors were seeking homes for the pups and have asked you and your visitors if you/they wanted one. So get one of these friends to go to your neighbor and say that they changed their minds -- after a burglary, they want a couple of dogs...do they still have the ones they offered? Then your friend (or you) can take them to a shelter or ask a rescue group to place them.

Three dogs gone with your neighbors none the wiser.

PLEASE DON'T POISON THEM. Yes, you have to protect your own, but not by torturing the dogs -- and yes, it is torture. It is too horrible of a death for any animal lover to inflict. As sad as SSS may be, it is a quick, if not instant, death.

I also vote for the hotwire. Check out the barrier fence that Shari put up around her night pasture. Another thought would be, since you have cattle panels up for the horses, back it with inexpensive 2x4 welded wire. The cattle panels will provide the strength that the welded wire alone lacks; the welded wire closes in the too large spaces in the cattle panels..

Next, hire a lawyer to write a letter stating your intent to sue them for threat to livelihood, threatening livestock, whatever the law is in your county/state. Set the terms you require to avoid court -- Putting up their own fence/kennel, getting rid of dogs permanently, etc.

 

[REO]

I am horrified and angry for what you're going through. All that stress isn't good for you or your horses. Ulcers. Ugh!

Do they run out too fast for you to take photos of them inside your pens, with a date stamp on the pics? I mean, as well as the videos?

They are hungry dogs. Wish you could get LARGE LIVE animal traps inside your pen. Train the camera on it. Then you would not only film the dogs inside your pen, but catch them too! Catch them at it! And have your sweet old neighbor or the law to come get them, as well as view the video of the dog.

We have cattle panels too. We stretched chicken wire over it and tacked it on. You can't really see it but it keeps critters and dogs out.

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

 

[Wee Mite Miniatures]

Get some large Have A Heart Traps. You maybe be able to borrow some. Trap the dogs and take them away.

 

[shorthorsemom]

Ditto on the PLEASE DO NOT USE POISON. I once worked for a vet and I can tell you it can be a horrible extended painful death and even "bad" dogs do not deserve to die that way because they have a stupid owner. Also, what if one of the puppies took the bait into your field and your horses ate it. The poison doesn't work right away and it can end up poisoning something of yours. Things like that have a way of back firing on you. You have alot of securing options, you could try some electric tape or wire on the outside of the fence. That might be the cheapest and easiest option. You can add mesh to your gates perhaps if they are getting in there? Most dogs avoid remarkably well when shocked, especially sensitive puppies. I once had a dobie that accidently touched a electric wire for a cattle fence and he never went near it again, his yelp was unbelievable so I know he was impressed. You might need several strands at different heights. I would suggest trapping the puppies first if you go the trapping option. Take them away to animal control or the SPCA, if you don't take them to the closest SPCA the owner might not be able to find them. I would be surprised if you could trap the mother, but getting rid of the puppies first might really help slow things down. These are a herding breed and probably won't ever stop on their own, it is way too much fun for them and is what they are bred to do. The owner of your problem dogs is getting no money damages, no reasonable correction at all, so why should he stop or do anything preventative, he is getting away with playing dumb and sadly we get that around here way too much. Try to get the name of your first responding officer, also, get the law in writing and read it carefully to know your rights. Put up no tresspassing signs too, if your land is posted sometimes that can give you extra clout if you ever get it to court. Seems like alot of time effort and money but compared to only one vet bill it can be reduced to nothing at the price of having emergency treatment these days. I'd be going nuts if I were you, things like that are soooo stressful, but I can bet you are way more determined than those stupid dogs and are already thinking of every option to beat this to protect your babies. Best wishes and keep us posted, your experience and solutions can help us all.

 

[Margaret]

I hope something breaks for you soon Cristina...

It does not seem as though your neighbors are able to contain their dogs.

I hope you find a peaceful answer with your neighbors before any animals get hurt.

Where is animal control when you need them?!

 

[HGFarm]

Ditto on not using poison. That is a horrible way to die, and you are risking your own pets and other animals as well. I am sure he would figure out where it came from as well!

I thought he was going to take the dogs to the pound? And there MUST be some type of leash law or laws in your county. Continue to call, or if that does not work- call your local media!! I am sure they would love to see the footage you have over and over of these dogs doing damage!!! And the poor condition that they are in. And yes, I would consider if that guy has had the pup 'for months' that it is now his!! Good grief!!!

Sorry to hear this is not going well, but keep after them- somebody has to do something and I am sure it is not legal for his dogs to continue to harass, etc..

Just a thought.. if they are telling you you live out too far and dont come under any 'city' or 'town' laws, then I assume it is ok to shoot the dogs then? Hmmmm, you went out to shoo them away and they turned on you???!! It's your story, and your sticking to it? If your neighbors can't see into your barn, they have no idea of the dogs turned on you or not while they were in there tearing up stuff!

I dont like the poison idea, and if they need done away with, make it quick and painless.

 

[christina_ski]

I am going to be calling the county on monday and ask to get the first officer back. I am also not going to be poisining the dogs as there are too many other animals (cats/horses/other small animals) that could get hurt. I am going to instead get live traps, that way I have prove right there that its there dogs getting over here. As in come get your dog or its going to the shelter now. I am also, as I said in another post, going to talk to my uncle as he would know more about the laws in the state then I would as he is the firecheif/first responder in the next town over. I am also getting a guard llama, and i thought about hot wire, but the way out fencing is, with woods on 2 sides of the pen, there is no way to have it there and have a good conection.

Also I just thought of this, the guy told the first officer he was going to give them to a shelter, And he said nothing like that to the second officer. So I am afriad they have no plans to get rid of them anytime soon.

Also someone mentioned about if I could go over and ask for one of the pups. That was way back in summer and I am sure the offer no longer stands. I just want the law to do what Its needs (and is suppost) to do.

 

[HGFarm]

I would not invest in a guard llama or donkey.... a pack of dogs can easily take those down too and then you have an even bigger mess. I would just find a way to get rid of the dogs....

 

[Mona]

Gee, sounds like a real mess you have there! I can;t believe that even with video they are not willing to do anything! I would go above the officers and directly to their superior...whoever is in charge of them. I am not sure of the "rank" order, but I am sure those in the US will know and can tell you. Explain to them what has transpired, and what(NOTHING!) has been done, and that you insist something BE DONE before you have to take it to the news media!

As for how to take care of the dogs...personally I would not poison them or shoot with BBs. Both, in my opinion are cruel, both causing the dog to suffer because of the owners sheer stupidity! I hate to see an animal suffer. That said though, if you are wanting to kill or shoot them, then fine, shoot to kill, not to maime, harm or cause suffering, but to kill immediately so they do not suffer.

Good Luck Christina.

 

[Bunnylady]

I don't like the poison idea either. Even without the risk of unintended victims, it's a horrible way to die. The dogs are just dumb brutes, acting without conscience, you aren't.

I'm very much in favor of the hot wire idea, though. I have both welded wire and an electric fence around my pasture (it takes both to keep my stupid goats in

) and we put a hotwire at the top of the fence and around the outside to keep preditors out. Your neighbor has made a point, his dogs may not be the only ones chasing your horses. That doesn't for a moment justify his not keeping his dogs out of your pasture, but it does raise the possibility that, should his dogs be put out of the picture, your horses might still not be safe. My hotwire does not discriminate; dog, fox, or bobcat, they all learn to respect it! If you attach the insulators to the existing fence/posts, it only requires a few inches. I do have to check frequently during the growing seasons to see that the wire remains free from plant growth that could short it out, but I consider it worth the time to not have my chickens and ducks disappearing during the night.

 

[Mona]

Another thing to consider Christina, IF you do decide to go the route of having to buy things to secure your fence against your neighbors, I would conider taking them to small claims court for the cost since it is due to their dogs!

 

[sedeh]

Where the cops not out here this morning when he said the same thing! He basically made me feel like i'm the bad guy who just wants their dogs gone because i'm an evil horse owner   Also this officer also said since according to him I live out in the country (My town is not big enough to be called a town I guess) that there is no law against having your dogs out loose. And that I would be the one to get in trouble if I shoot the dogs. And I am only allowed to shoot the dogs if they hurt/kill a horse. And I have to prove that there dog was the one who hurt the horse. WHAT!!! I have never heard such b.s. in my life.

That's a bunch of whooey!! I agree with not poisoning. I've had problems with dogs here and in Calif. In Calif a pitbull kept climbing over the 5 ft fence and running my big horses. I caught the dog and had animal control pick it up......owners kept bailing him out but after sending him to the pound 4 times (bailing out gets expensive) they finally took care of the situation. Here I had a neighbor's dog that kept getting into the pasture(took me a while to figure out how!!) but after talking to him a couple of times without resolution I finally had to tell him the next time the dog chased my horses would be his last! He found a new home for the dog(his wife was really ticked off that he refused to put a fence up to contain the dog....especially since he does fencing projects for other people!).

I really think that if you can catch the dogs and send them to the animal shelter yourself......and I believe you have that right! That the "sweet old man" wouldn't bother to bail them out. If I were going to shoot at the dogs.....it wouldn't be with a BB gun! OH!

 

[Miniv]

This may get expensive........but if you trap the dogs and turn them over to the shelter, there's a 50/50 chance the owner will reclaim them..........If he does, then RE-TRAP them. Make sure the authorities know that is what you are doing........and also let the shelter know..........Eventually, someone will take ACTION, or the dogs will stay in the shelter and get adopted!

Good luck.......What a mess........

 

[susanne]

Christina, I didn't suggest that YOU go ask for the dogs, but rather one of the people to whom he previously offered them.

I have no doubt that they would br unlikely give them to you!