New rules

[Erica]

Also, I have a two year old stallion that bred several mares in 2005.. He is due to go perm April 25/06 - just about the same time his first foal is due... I will get his perm registration in with AMHR early.. just after the 1st of the year so I do not get caught up in red tape..

But Mary-Lou they will just send the registration papers back to you.......I have done it before, but them in the Mail say even May 1st and the horse turns three on May 10th...........nope you "sent' them in and signed them before the horse "actually" turned three.

Yep this rule seems a little

to me right now. I have a two year old colt that I have two mares linned out to bred next year - he turns actually two in May, yet one of the mares I would like to bred to him in March time frame.

So another question, just my above example for instance, if you bred a two year old stallion who turns 3 in May 07, you bred him to a mare in March 06, foal comes March 07 - you have to wait till May 07 to send in for permanent papers and for foal registration...........you can still hold the foals birthdate as March 06 and they will register the foal - even if born before permanent papers on the stallion???

So really are we stopping early breeding here? (if that was the reason implimented?) I mean all we have to do is wait to register them..... I guess if the reason was to make sure horses got their permanent papers then that might help a little, but still not sure about everything that deals with this rule as it seems awful vauge to me in places as well.

 

[HGFarm]

Well, I agree that sufficient notice should be given to people. That is changing the rules in the middle of the game if you ask me.

However, I must also look on the other side of the coin here. Since most folks dont use a stallion to breed until it is at least 2, perhaps this rule was to make folks keep up on their paperwork?? I have looked at many mares whose paperwork was never brought permanent... I wont even bother. If they are still in the name of someone two owners ago, have had a foal since, is bred again, and now maybe that stallion is in the right owners name, but has not been brought permanent?? Oh what a paperwork NIGHTMARE for someone trying to straighten it all out.

Perhaps this rule was just to get folks to keep paperwork current and have the horses go permanent when they are supposed to, and had to get a bit more serious (thus foals cant be registered) until it is done.

If this rule does not make sense, then write letters to those that make the rules, and ask them to be more specific and put in black and white what will happen if said stallion dies, etc... in the meantime.

This sounds too open and vague....

 

[Erica]

Forgot in my above post -

when I first heard of this new rule a while back I thought it was going to be run on the basis of what AMHA does. While AMHA does STOP registration of foals on a stallion that is not permanent, they do not STOP the registration of those foals WHILE he is still temporary.

I mean if a stallions birthday is May 1st, in AMHA you can register as many foals as you have up until May 1st and then after that until you send in his paperwork all the foals you want to register can't be, yet those while he was under the "actual" five years old were fine to register as his paperwork was IN ORDER of what the registery calls for at that time frame in his life.

So I really took this rule as being you can register foals with AMHR until May 1st (using same stallions as I did in amha scenario), so if he breed any mares as a two year old you could register them up until May 1st and at that time when he is an "actual" three you have to send in his papers to update them before you could register any more offspring out of that stallion

 

[Amy]

Referring to the stallion dies before old enough to be brought permanent-- we had this happen with the AMHA-- Our Rowdy grandson died in November-- turned 5 in february -- foal born in March -- (after his 5th birthday). AMHA was not going to register the folas as I should have brought the stud permanent-- you can not do this before their actual 5th birthday -- so by then he had died-- mare was on the stallion reprt -- so I had to write a letter to the AMHA requesting(begging in my eyes) for a foal to be registered off stock we had paid a qood price for & done everything in our control correctly.

They DID finally register the filly but I can tell you it left a real bad taste in my mouth for AMHA after another problem we had with them. We now show only AMHR

 

[jlh]

the way I understood this, from email conversations with one of our directors BEFORE the convention is the following two issues:

1. we should be used to having to bring a mare to perm before a foal can be registered. the same applies to the stallion, the paperwork on a foal (frex) born in March would not be processed until the mare who turns three in (frex) May has her work done on or after she hits 36 months old. if daddy (frex) hits his 36 month mark in June, the foal's papers would be held til all the paperwork is done.

2. the rule that the mare must be in her third year to deliver a foal is seperate, and worded differently. before convention, I wa given to understand that did NOT apply to the stallion, as there is no issue of physical stress on the "teenage" noy compared to the stress of a pregnancy on a "teenage" filly.

I have not comment on new rules about registration deadlines being rolled back until I see them, if they are set up as reported, let the complaining run free.

 

[Belinda]

Karen S,Dec 11 2005, 08:07 AM]We had a vote in all committees...Modern/Modern Pleasure, Classic/Foundation, Miniatures that passed regarding registering animals and DNA. All foals MUST BE registered by the end of their YEARLING year.

I just want to say that the Reg. of foals by the end of their yearling year was only for the SHETLANDS ! This did not apply to the Mini's or least not the meetings I was at.. I had to bring this up at the Classic Committee meeting in which I was in charge of because it had come up in the Modern Committee. It had "NOTHING " TO DO WITH MINI'S..

It is really not a big deal.. you can breed your two year old stallions, then bring them perm.. and reg. the foals.. Actually most 2 yr old are not going to breed or at least setttle a mare the early part of their 2 yr old year.. I say MOST not ALL.. So I would just continue with what you have planned as far as breeding .

One question to the person that wanted to breed a 2 yr stallion and then sell him why ?? Why would you not want to keep him at least until you saw what he had sired , who knows he might be the best thing since sliced bread.. I would at least keep a stallion until I saw what he sired . Well anyway Most of this is just my own opinion and we know about those..

 

[sdmini]

Even though I have talked to several people about this rule the core of my information comes directly from Zona who deals with it every day.

In my case it was a yearling stallion, not a two year old and my filly is NOT eligible for registration, ever. Not when the stallion turns three, never. I volunteered to have pd'q done if that would help my case, nope.

No this rule was not in the 2005 rule book (Zona even said it was not). As what is in the rule book alludes to the fact that after the horses have went permanent the foal could be registered and that simply is not the case. I asked if I tried to reregister the filly after the sire went permanent if it would go through, the answer was no.

This does not pertain to two year old stallions as the foals can be registered after the sire has went permanent (like mares). Even if the foal is born before their "real" third birthday as long as it is in their three year old year (after Jan 1)the foal can be registered.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

No this rule was not in the 2005 rule book (Zona even said it was not). As what is in the rule book alludes to the fact that after the horses have went permanent the foal could be registered and that simply is not the case.  I asked if I tried to reregister the filly after the sire went permanent if it would go through, the answer was no.

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This rule is too in the rulebook. Here is what it says:

AMHR horses for which an application for registration has been submitted to the AMHR National Office, will be registered only if the sire and dam have been updated from temporary to permanent status.

Here is another rule.

No miniature foal may be registered out of a mare unless the dam has reached her third birthday (birthday as of January 1).

I hated this rule at first, but now I don't mind it as much, however I don't like having to pay for DNA if your stallion dies before he can be brought pernament but atleast they are thinking of ways.

 

[sdmini]

No the rule as it pertains to me is not in the rule book.

As I can not register my filly by a yearling stallion ever, not even after he is updated from temp to perm.

 

[kaykay]

zona must have been confused about what you were asking. the new rules is as typed above and is on page 235 of the 2005 rule book!

this rule doesnt affect me at all i just wish it was worded better and people had been given notice BEFORE it went into effect

kay

 

[sdmini]

This rule is too in the rulebook. Here is what it says:

AMHR horses for which an application for registration has been submitted to the AMHR National Office, will be registered only if the sire and dam have been updated from temporary to permanent status.

[SIZE=14pt]Which means you can register a foal after they have been brought from temp to permanent, I can not.[/SIZE]

Here is another rule.

No miniature foal may be registered out of a mare unless the dam has reached her third birthday (birthday as of January 1).

The rule does not say that no miniature foal may not be registered out of a stallion unless the stallion has reached his third birthday.

 


I called Zona just this past week to re-check, not only did I tell her what I needed but mailed a letter detailing the situation & a copy of the returned applicaton.


SIZE]

 

[Jean_B]

I fully understand the logic behind this rule. AMHR is FULL of people who are EXTREMELY sloppy about their paperwork (not saying this is only happening in AMHR....just saying that there are a lot of people in this org. that either do not know about the requirements or just don't give a rat's behind about doing it in a timely manner).

This rule however does have some negative consequences.

Let's say you have a stallion born in September. You use him as a 2 year old to cover a couple of mares. You cannot bring him permanent until August of the following year. And you cannot show those foals until they have papers. Which means you won't be able to show those foals at all as weanlings....even if they are born in...say...April because they can't be registered until the sire is permanent.

Also, I did use a 2 year old stallion on a couple of mares but someone offered me a LOT of money for him, so I sold him. And then the buyer did not bring him permanent in AMHR as a three year old.....didn't understand that AMHA and AMHR were different. I called him REPEATEDLY. I emailed him REPEATEDLY. I even sent the moron copies of the work order and form for bringing him permanent. The MORON didn't do it!! He only did it after the AMHR home office got into the act and hassled him.

I had sold the mares, and the mare buyer tried to get the foals registered but because the stallion buyer didn't bring the stallion permanent, they could not get them registered and a sale was lost because of this MORON. Why oh why would this guy spend THAT much money and not keep the paperwork up?????? MORON !! Can you tell I'm a little bent out of shape over this one?!?

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Jean_B my thoughts exactly

Maybe they should change their rule to where foals that are born before the stallion can actualy be brought pernament or foals you waited to register or foaled after the stallion's birthday must wait until he is brought pernament? I don't know I'm thinking outloud.

sdmini...if that rule wasn't in the rulebook (which I cant find) than IMO should not even take affect until it is, its not even a rule IMO, I would argue with them until they register your baby.

 

[Karen S]

Good Morning,

I would like to add a correction to kaykay's post referring back to mine...

This will take effect in 2007.....this will allow everyone the opportunity to take care of registering their foals....yes Belinda it was also voted on in the Miniature committee. The BOD did clarify that it would include all parts of the registry. I will say again.....watch your December Journal.

Karen Shaw

 

[Aggravation Acres]

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to answer. But with working 10 hour shifts at work and getting home about 3am. It leaves me little time to read now days.

Belinda- to answer about why I would want to breed my 2 year old then sell him. Here is the long answer.

I really liked this appy stallion who was 31 inches tall. I got a mare (32.5 inches) bred by him hopping to get a nice appy filly. Well it turned out to be a boy. (Abby)I thought oh good I will have this nice little stallion to keep for my next stud. WEll, this boy just did not stop growing. And he is more of the stocker type. He is now about 33.5 inches tall. I only have one mare that is almost 36 inches and one at 34.5 inches tall. I do not feel comfortable breeding taller stallions to shorter mares.

I also have another yearling stallion that I went to WI. to get and he is about the same height but more of the Arab style and is a Blue Boy grandson, so I do not need 2 tall stallions.

I met some people at our fair last year that own large Appy's and they were very interested in Abby but I was not ready to sell him. So I told them if they were really interested to look me up this next year. To see how tall he has gotten.

Another reason I was thinking of selling him. I got his awsome colt at the Oct auction. Misty Rose Sgt Pepper.

I have big plans for him.

Hope I did not bore you too much.

Deb

 

[stormy]

I recommend all go to the rulebook and read this rule. The lead in paragraph reads that all horses to be eligible to register must meet ONE of the criteria listed below.

The first criteria is both parents must be AMHR registered, does not say permanent registered.

I was told repeatedly by personel at the registry it didn't matter what the rule book said they were enforcing the 4th criteria parents must be permanent before the foal can be registered, basically telling me the rulebook is invalid....so why do we have a rulebook???

No exceptions

Who gets hit by this,

people buying a mare bred to a non-permanent stallion 2 yr old (so you buy at a sale and get home, think you are OK...next year surprise!!!)

stallion dies before 3 yrs old

stallion jumps fence..surprise!

Stallion sold, not made permanent

It is not going to change behavior of owners, esp. if they have not read the rulebook or who have read the rulebook and believe what it says though it is not being followed by the registry.

So what will many do? Just file a late report claiming another stallion as sire!

So who gets punished by this rule, all of us who are honest about our mistakes!