Not sure if this has been disgussed

[Reble]

Talking about these stallions that have been shown and have done very well in the show ring.

I have noticed and heard over and over their stallion, bites, kicks, rears, hard to handle.

Keep your horse away from behind this one.

Than they go home an breed with this bloodline

Other animals with these attitudes out in public, would not be acceptable for breeding.

Do we not believe temperment should also go hand and hand with breeding?

Just asking what others believe?

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

I guess to me this really depends on whether or not I know how the horse was raised. Yes some just plain have attitude problems that may or may not pass on to their offspring. Others it is due to how they were raised and trained. I have known ornery stallions that had loving calm foals that had the greatest dispositions. So it could go either way but if a certain cross produced a mean natured foal I probably just wouldnt do that same cross again.

 

[Sunny]

I agree that temperament is of utmost importance, right up there with good conformation. I'm sure with some of the stallions that are out there displaying the bad behaviour you described, that it's more a matter of lack of training and manners than a bad temperament.

 

[kaykay]

This is why I think its so important that even if you dont show you go and watch some of the bigger shows. There are a lot on here that are always saying temperment/disposition is not a big deal and all minis are nice

They obviously havent seen what others have seen at shows

Disposition is a huge deal to me weather it be a stallion or a mare. But I think its even more important on a stallion since he is 50 percent of all the foals.

Now some of this can be handling issues but a lot are not. I also think people let them get away with way too much because of their smaller size which is a huge mistake

Kay

 

[Jill]

Actually, I think more often people overlook some serious faults in a stallion "because" he has a really good personality. As if that is not the norm when it come to miniatures... MOST of them do have great dispositions.

Personally, I wouldn't breed a bad tempered horse be it a stallion or a mare. All of our breeding horses, and our geldings, are as wonderful on the inside as on the outside. That said, they can be firecrackers when it's called for, but give me that over a "dead head" any day! I wouldn't confuse a "hotter" horse as one with a bad or mean temperment. Two totally different things...

Also, don't rely toooo terribly much on what you hear from others about this or that stallion's dispostion. I think sometimes when you can't fault the obvious (as in what we can all see with our eyes), some try and fault in other ways (ie sour grapes?).

 

[sdmini]

Truthfully it goes with the territory. You won't find them here but there are plenty of nasty disposition studs that it's over looked because everything else is "good". One of the most dominant bloodlines in barrels are not known for their loving dispositions in fact one of the best stallions of this line only has one eye as he attacked the person cleaning his stall and it was knocked out when he used the stall fork to defend himself. Yet his foal command huge prices ($10,000 starting).

 

[midnight star stables]

Actually, I think more often people overlook some serious faults in a stallion "because" he has a really good personality. As if that is not the norm when it come to miniatures... MOST of them do have great dispositions.
...

I agree. Great personality and loud colours are often found in poor breeding stock.

I would never want a terrible mannered stallion... But I wouldn't mind high spirited, or alert stallion... But IMHO think a lot has to do with how stallions are raised. A lot of "Hot" stallions can easily become ill tempered when not handled right.

Behavior issues should not be tolerated in any horse(stallion or not), and one should try to train them stop, or seek help from someone who can help.

But I guess it comes down to each their own

Personally, I place my importance in conformation, then movement, then colour, then temperament... BUT it's a package deal. I want all these qualities and they are All important in their own way. Personally, I don't want a "push button" pony, but I don't want a dangerous one either. There is a fine line.

 

[~Lisa~]

I can honestly say in over 13 years in minis I can only think of a small handfull of nasty or mean minis.

I have seen some horses that are ill mannered- do not respect your space, mouthy- a bit goosey (Ok yes some of those have been my own the not respecting your space thing)

Many if not all of these things could be fixed and really is not what I consider the disposition of the horse but more the manners of the horse. JMO

 

[disneyhorse]

It is so hard to judge a stallion's behavior as to how it is acting at a show... stallions can be very difficult to handle, and sometimes they are asked to be breeding and showing simultaneously which is very frustrating and demanding for a stallion.

I would like to see how the stallion acts at home, in a relaxed environment, before I would judge if it is truly bad-tempered.

Training and consistent handling are also factors.

Andrea

 

[Genie]

Midnight Star Stables said.................

I agree. Great personality and loud colours are often found in poor breeding stock.

I am not sure I understand what you mean by "loud colours" being often found in poor breeding stock?

 

[Genie]

We recently purchased Kegleys Tommiehawk and he has a wonderful sweet disposition.

I spoke to a previous owner who told me he passed this quality on to his babies.

I believe the dispositon is a trait that can be inherited, both good and bad.

However, I have had foals with less than pleasant dispositions who came from lovely laid back parents. I guess handling and training can fix things up for many of these little ones who don't have the best dispositions in the world.

I would not buy a nasty stallion though, and take a chance on that sort of disposition in his offspring. There are too many nice stallions around.

 

[Riverdance]

Midnight Star Stables said.................I agree. Great personality and loud colours are often found in poor breeding stock.

I am not sure I understand what you mean by "loud colours" being often found in poor breeding stock?

I think what she is saying is, that many people tend to breed for color, be it an Appaloosa, Overo, Frame Overo, loud Tobiano or for that matter, buckskin or palomino.

Many people can not see beyond the color of a horse and breed for the color, not seeing that it perhaps, has poor conformation.

How many times do you see a horse posted that people will go crazy about because it has wonderful color or markings, but are unable to see that it has a thick neck, or straight shoulder, or is too coarse, has a low tail set, poor topline, etc.

This is the same in the dog world too. Take the white Greman Shepard. A color that, until recently was an absolute no, no in the show ring. But people got all excited about it and started breeding for that color. Regardless of the conformation. The result was a really poor quality white German Shepard. It could not compete with the true German Shepard, so they decided to have white German Shepard shows.

I have seen it in the Morgan World. People breeding for the dilute gene and now for pinto. All colors that are not true to the Morgan. The resulting horses are really sub par. But people still are breeding them, for their color, and asking big bucks for a junky horse, just because it has the color. Same for the Friesian and the draft horses. People are breeding them for pintos now and if they get one, it is $10,000 just because it is a pinto. It has nothing to do with any conformation.

People are quick to say one should not breed for poor temperment (as they are right, you should not, since it is passed on to its get) But will forgive poor conformation because the color is right. Poor conformation is poor conformation, regardless of color.

 

[ruffian]

"Actually, I think more often people overlook some serious faults in a stallion "because" he has a really good personality. As if that is not the norm when it come to miniatures... MOST of them do have great dispositions."

I've seen ads where the stallions "best" quality was his "long, flowing, mane and tail."

I demand manner from every stallion on my place. I've never had one with a inherent mean streak. The only mini I've ever had that I told my husband to shoot (he didn't by the way) was a MARE that had been mistreated before we got her.

 

[Genie]

Midnight Star Stables said.................I agree. Great personality and loud colours are often found in poor breeding stock.

I am not sure I understand what you mean by "loud colours" being often found in poor breeding stock?

I think what she is saying is, that many people tend to breed for color, be it an Appaloosa, Overo, Frame Overo, loud Tobiano or for that matter, buckskin or palomino.

Many people can not see beyond the color of a horse and breed for the color, not seeing that it perhaps, has poor conformation.

How many times do you see a horse posted that people will go crazy about because it has wonderful color or markings, but are unable to see that it has a thick neck, or straight shoulder, or is too coarse, has a low tail set, poor topline, etc.

This is the same in the dog world too. Take the white Greman Shepard. A color that, until recently was an absolute no, no in the show ring. But people got all excited about it and started breeding for that color. Regardless of the conformation. The result was a really poor quality white German Shepard. It could not compete with the true German Shepard, so they decided to have white German Shepard shows.

I have seen it in the Morgan World. People breeding for the dilute gene and now for pinto. All colors that are not true to the Morgan. The resulting horses as really sub par. But people still are breeding them, for their color, and asking big bucks for a junky horse, just because it has the color. Same for the Friesian and the draft horses. People are breeding them for pintos now and if they get one, it is $10,000 just because it is a pinto. It has nothing to do with any conformation.

People are quick to say one should not breed for poor temperment (as they are right, you should not, since it is passed on to its get) But will forgive poor conformation because the color is right. Poor conformation is poor conformation, regardless of color.

Oh, okay, that makes sense....thanks. The comment about loud colours in poor stock went right over my head

 

[Jill]

I agree so much with what many of you are saying. It seems like so many people breeding minis don't really look at the quality of the horse, and excuse away a lot due to a good disposition, neat color, etc. -- but then a lot of times, I think many are truly oblivious to what they've got on their hands in terms of conformational issues. I don't think you see the issue of poor quality breeding stock in "biggies" the way you do in minis, nor so many people who get their first mini (often their first horse) one year, and the next they are "breeders". It takes a toll on our breed, in my opinion, and a far greater one than the possible few "nasty" stallions out there.

You know just thinking back as a PS kind of, when I was new into minis, I remember my former trainer telling me that this and that horse should have not placed over her own in halter and model classes because her horse stood better. I'm happy I didn't let that be my final answer on the subject

 

[Minimor]

Most of the stallions I have seen misbehaving in the show ring were simply bad mannered--no reflection at all on their dispositions, just an indication of the lack of knowledge of their handlers.

I bought a 2 year old stallion one time--he hadn't had any real handling; his former owner was afraid of him so if she did try to do anything with him he walked all over her. When I brought him home he was a real little horror; he learned his manners very quickly, with little effort on my part, but handling him as a stallion was always something of an effort, just because he was so full of energy and had so much stamina. He was spirited, but not mean. Once Ice Man was old enough for breeding we gelded Sunny, and as a gelding he is much more laid back--much less effort for me to handle, but still not a horse for a novice.

Some people might have said Sunny had a poor disposition, but I didn't consider it so. He sure wasn't a horse for a novice, but that didn't mean he was mean or had a bad temperament--he was just smart and full of himself. We have two of his offspring--Dandy has as sweet a personality as anyone could want, and Secret--she's a real people horse, as precocious as they come and kind of spoiled rotten because of her start in life, but definitely doesn't have a bad disposition.

 

[Reble]

This has been interesting reading all the comments on disposition or just bad manners.

It sounds like most stallions at the show, are just have bad manners?

Never looked at it that way.

 

[Jill]

This has been interesting reading all the comments on disposition or just bad manners.It sounds like most stallions at the show, are just have bad manners?

Never looked at it that way.

If most of the shows you've been to mostly have bad mannered stallions... well now that really is something! Once in awhile, I see someone having a bit of an issue at a show but to say most show stallions act up and give reason to ponder is it bad manners or bad disposition -- I think maybe there's something else going on... Most show stallions are in fact well behaved and quite sweet.

 

[Reble]

This has been interesting reading all the comments on disposition or just bad manners.It sounds like most stallions at the show, are just have bad manners?

Never looked at it that way.

If most of the shows you've been to mostly have bad mannered stallions... well now that really is something! Once in awhile, I see someone having a bit of an issue at a show but to say most show stallions act up and give reason to ponder is it bad manners or bad disposition -- I think maybe there's something else going on... Most show stallions are in fact well behaved and quite sweet.

sorry Jill did not mean to say most stallions, that is what I was reading here, most people here where saying, that stallions might not have bad dispositon but bad manners.

 

[Jill]

sorry Jill did not mean to say most stallions, that is what I was reading here, most people here where saying, that stallions might not have bad dispositon but bad manners.

Thank you for that correction.

Also (everyone), should try to make evaluations based on what they really see themselves (and learn to see themselves), vs. what a rumor mill may turn out. While we can all see -- or should all be able to see -- a stallion's physical quality based on pictures, we can't see his heart.