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... Have you ever seen an unsedated horse put down? I have, and trust me it can be ugly. No pretty music and sad memories there, let me tell you. I will never allow any horse of mine to be put down without sedation. ...
Yes unfortunately I did last Friday. The mare was allowed to colic almost to death and it was a blessed relief to have it done swiftly. The vet we had out did not sedate prior to euthanasia because the she was already down. Some of the reasons they do so with a standing animal is for handling safety for those in attendance, to minimize the outward death signs which most people find very disconcerting and to minimize stress on the animal. I am sorry you had to experience that and your vet did not sedate. Sounds like a pretty callous error on his or her part for you and your horse not to do so. :no:

...

I had to euthanize my 31 year old standardbred last year and the few companies around here (Iowa) that will take a horse body charged well over $300 to take it. I would have liked to have just buried the horse on my father's farm, but any other animal that might have eventually eaten the carcass would have died as well (and not to mention that it's probably illegal).

Some may not think $300 is a lot of money but I do - all of my animals are companion animals and get the best care that I can provide. I don't breed, and all of my animals are rescues, so it's not a business for me where I have profits and losses.

Still, I would do it again. No horse of mine will ever end up in a slaughterhouse.
I think it's the last act of love and loyalty you can give to a beloved animal. Sadly, too many people make it everyone else's problem and just ship them off to the lot to suffer in filth and disease, to be shipped in horrid conditions then onto what is considered "humane" slaughter. I find little humanity involved in the whole process.
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It's not cheap here either. I recall it was mentioned the bill was $260 for removal--which was about double the vet's bill for the euthanasia.
 
While it is unpleasant to think of horses coming to an end like this, particularly ones that have served their humans for years, I have to agree that there is no viable alternative for the thousands of horses that are no longer wanted for whatever reason. I would only hope that the transport and handling is humane, and the end swift, and it certainly does sound like this will not be the case if and when this bill passes.
 
OK,...I'm back.

I breed and I am PRO slaughter.

I am NOT a hypocrite.

Any horse I have had put down has been shot, without sedation, without panic or fear, in fact when I had my two full sisters put down a few weeks ago I let one sniff the body of the other so she would NOT be frightened- I know Precious waited for her, I know they went on together.

They were taken for $60.00 each because they had not anaesthesia in their systems.

This is all this man does, he goes round all day every day slaughtering horses and, very occasionally, cows and sheep.

His son and son-in -law both work for him full time, and his daughter part time.

They have their "trade" down to a te- as there is no slaughter house everything is out in the open BUT were he to open a slaughterhouse and I had no option, that is the slaughterhouse to which I would take my horses- he NEVER forgets they are live creatures and he treats them, and me, with dignity.

Again I state, we need to clean up the transport and slaughter laws, NOT try to stop it.

Once we are down to responsible owners breeding marketable amounts of good, sound animals, there will be no need for commercial horse slaughter.

And, on that day, pigs everywhere across the world will fly up out of their pens!!!!
 
OK,...I'm back.

I breed and I am PRO slaughter.

I am NOT a hypocrite.

Any horse I have had put down has been shot, without sedation, without panic or fear, in fact when I had my two full sisters put down a few weeks ago I let one sniff the body of the other so she would NOT be frightened- I know Precious waited for her, I know they went on together.

They were taken for $60.00 each because they had not anaesthesia in their systems.

This is all this man does, he goes round all day every day slaughtering horses and, very occasionally, cows and sheep.

His son and son-in -law both work for him full time, and his daughter part time.

They have their "trade" down to a te- as there is no slaughter house everything is out in the open BUT were he to open a slaughterhouse and I had no option, that is the slaughterhouse to which I would take my horses- he NEVER forgets they are live creatures and he treats them, and me, with dignity.

Again I state, we need to clean up the transport and slaughter laws, NOT try to stop it.

Once we are down to responsible owners breeding marketable amounts of good, sound animals, there will be no need for commercial horse slaughter.

And, on that day, pigs everywhere across the world will fly up out of their pens!!!!
:aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

Sadly here in the US we no longer have that option due to the closing of all the slaughter houses and now having them picked up for rendering is becoming costly and near impossible as many of the rendering plants have been shut down. What shall we do when it becomes illegal to bury/burn and there are no rendering plants left?
 
Sadly here in the US we no longer have that option due to the closing of all the slaughter houses and now having them picked up for rendering is becoming costly and near impossible as many of the rendering plants have been shut down. What shall we do when it becomes illegal to bury/burn and there are no rendering plants left?

In several of my horse magazines (such as "The Horse" and "Equus") there have been articles about studies done to COMPOST the bodies of horses. :eek: They say that, properly done, there is very little to no odor, and in about a year's time, even the bones will be reduced to nothing.

It just gives me a chill-- compost one of my beloved horses when their time is up? If sent to a place where it were professionally done, fine, "ashes to ashes" and all that, but if I had to do it myself at home.... yikes.
 
ok because of my experience with Wilbur i'm going to bite the bullet and say i am shocked by some of the things i have read here. i am against slaughter for human consumption... i'm not a biblical scholar so i can't give you chapter and verse but i do know that somewhere in the Bible it says that God made the cloven-hooved animals for human consumption and NOT the single hooved animals (horses). i do agree that laws need to be enacted regarding the transport etc., horses are treated horribly by these people to whom they are a commodity and not a living creature. i have personal experience of this as we have taken three into our rescue that were headed to slaughter. the first, a mule, had hooves so long and twisted he could barely walk, he was brought to an auction and not bid on, so the auctioneer asked the guy who buys to resell for slaughter if he would just take him for free... this guy planned to hog tie him and take a hacksaw to his feet without anesthetic or anything so he could get him on the truck to texas... and he would never have made it, he would have fallen and been trampled by the others in the truck. we paid the guy $40 to let us take the mule. well it did take hacksaws to work on his feet but he was carefully put to sleep by a vet who stayed in attendance and an entire farrier class came out and worked on all four legs at once so that it would be as fast as possible so he wouldn't have to stay under an unsafe amount of time. we got him too late, despite trying there was no way to help him, but he received love and care for the last few months of his life and was put to rest without terror. we did try to follow up on prosecution of the prior owner by tracing the brand but it led back to the reservation where US governmental authorities have no jurisdiction. it has been three years and i still cry every time i think of him. Wilbur was awesome, despite his horrible life he was a kind and gentle soul and the people who abused and neglected him should be dropped off at the slaughter house themselves. because of him alone i will always speak up against the current slaughter and related hauling and auction practices...

and in case any of you think they don't slaughter minis, think again. if they can get them cheap enough to make a profit off of them by weight, THEY DON'T CARE that they are little and cute. the second and third we got were a mini and a REGISTERED shetland pony mare. when we got the call they had been living IN A TRAILER for 4 days because the resell guy only had a couple of big pens, and the big horses in the pen were kicking the snot out of them. not sure what else the guy did to them, we got in the trailer and haltered them fine, but when he opened the door and stuck his head in to see if we needed help them both went ballistic, the mare even reared up and tried to get out through the openings in the side of the trailer to get away from him. the mare had a nasty cut over her eye that should have been stitched but of course since he was sending her to slaughter he didn't care about that either.

i know that there are too many horses and not enough people to care for them, but slaughter and all that is connected with it is NOT THE ANSWER as the situation stands now. we as horse owners and horse lovers need to contact our politicians and bug them until they do something about putting decent practices into law and enforcing them - and this goes not only for transport and auctions etc. connected with slaughter, but also the people who abuse and neglect the horses they own. a couple of years ago not far from here someone tied a mare to a tree in the middle of summer (110+ degrees!) with NO WATER and left her to die of heat stroke. unfortunately the person who found her was not in time, she was already dead. turning them loose is not the answer either but it isn't THAT hard to find someone who will take a "free" horse... or put them down humanely if it needs to be done.

stricter laws and EDUCATION for the public are what we need.

well that's my two cents worth, and for those who care, the two minis have great homes now and we were very fortunate that while we did not get the mare in time to get her cut stitched, with constant and careful care it did heal up to the point where you can't see it all with her winter coat, and barely when she is shed out. :aktion033:
 
I honestly don't think education will ever accomplish the doing away of horse slaughter, or the end of owners who do not see their animals as anything more than money on the hoof. There are simply many thousands of horses which are cast offs every year. Think of racing, both thoroughbred and standardbred, I can't imagine that such a wealthy industry as that will ever see it's end. Add to this number the unwanted and old riding and work horses that many people do not want, the mares and foals which are by products of the pmu industry (which I pray we WILL see an end to some day) and there could never possibly be enough loving homes, or enough money to euthanize and dispose of them another way.

Any horse of ours that must be put down is euthanized here at our farm, and buried here. We do not breed the large horses and ponies, nor have we ever sold any of them, with the exception of one that was for several reasons not a good fit with our farm and family, and six years later I still know exactly where and how he is. Lord willing all my large horses and ponies will see old age and spend their last days here. We have in the last year taken in a full size paint mare who is almost totally blind, to ensure that the old girl did not go for meat. We have several unwanted ponies from other people that are here for life for the same reason. There are many people who like us, do as much as they can, but it will just never be enough to save every horse. How I wish it could!

I know that minis could be subject to the same fate, which is why we do not sell to just anyone, and why we do not send any not sold to auction just for whatever we can get. I would drop a price for a horse that was going to an excellent home, but I will not reduce prices just to get rid of them. I do my best and I pray with all my heart that the homes our minis do go to are loving and permanent.

I know many others here feel the same, but I believe that we are still a minority. There will always be far more horse people, large and small, who want the $$$ they can get out of an unwanted or used up animal, and for the sake of those animals, I would rather see efforts and legislation go towards making the shipping, handling and end as humane calm and painless as possible, than see them shipped further, stressed longer, and killed in places where our laws do not reach to afford them any kind of protection whatsoever at the hands of people who do not care.
 
"i'm not a biblical scholar so i can't give you chapter and verse but i do know that somewhere in the Bible it says that God made the cloven-hooved animals for human consumption and NOT the single hooved animals (horses). "

I'm also not a biblical scholar, and actually agree with much of what you are saying, but a lot of Americans also eat pork, and according to the Bible that is also unclean for us. . .so probably using that as an argument isn't going to work very well in our current society.

Not trying to be argumentative, just pointing that out in case you are apt to discuss this somewhere else and someone bites your head off for it:) I'm all for people trying to make change in the current slaughter system.

Renee in Iowa - a pork producing states (but yes, I feel sorry for what the hogs have to endure, too)
 
Whilst there are horses being sold at public auction there will need to be slaughterhouses.

Whilst there are horses being bred without restriction there will need to be slaughter houses.

Whilst there are horses being allowed to breed without restriction on public domains there will need to be slaughterhouses.

It is no good taking the moral highground over what you eat, I have NO problem with eating horsemeat and just where do you think the "meat" in dog food comes from- happy cows??

If we actually started thinking of horses as food they might get a better deal in the slaughterhouses as some abattoirs are actually starting to think about the animals welfare- unhappy cows loose weight and that is bad news.

You should be looking to open more abattoirs, not closing the ones you have, I once had two within walking distance of my house, now I am lucky enough to still have two knackers and one Hunt within easy distance.

The shorter the distance the animal has to travel to slaughter the better it is for the animal and the cheaper for the knacker.

The cheaper it is for the knacker the more he has to spend on the animals welfare- they do this as a job, jobs traditionally have to make a profit.

Sentimentality has NO place in this, you need to channel raw ANGER in to the situation.

It is the transport and dispatching laws that are totally at fault and need changing.

Stopping the slaughter of these horses will NEVER solve the problem it will condemn them to a living heck instead of releasing them from it.

It will NOT stop the racing industry from breeding, nothing ever has.

It is great that a couple of mules were rescued- a drop in the HUGE ocean, but applaudable none the less.

It is, regrettably,though exactly the same as trying to stop puppy mills by finding homes for the puppies.

The mule you saved's place would have been taken by another who could well have been in far worse a state- what do you do then, you cannot save them all??

CHANGE THE LAWS- NO END TO HORSE SLAUGHTER- CHANGE THE LAWS GOVERNING ALL SLAUGHTER.
 
Well said Beccy & Jane--we should be trying to change the conditions for slaughter-bound horses, rather than trying to shut down slaughter houses. Unfortunately, with the general public so gung-ho about stopping slaughter, conditions are not being dealt with. Horses continue to be transported in overcrowded double decker trailers; they continue to be poorly treated while in holding pens at the slaughterhouses.

Actually the bible says that animals that are cloven hoofed & chew of the cud are meant for people to eat--this does forbid the eating of pork--pigs are expressly deemed to be dirty in the bible and not to be consumed by people. Many Christians disregard this; for that matter, many Christians don't even know that is in the bible! You must also remember that there are many people in the world that are not Christian and don't follow the bible. Some cultures that don't eat beef will eat pork....and there is definitely a market for horse meat. Trying to use the bible to stop horse slaughter for human consumption just isn't going to work.

To whomever it was that said it's not that difficult to find a home for a free horse....no, it's not. But finding a home for a free horse doesn't mean that horse is in a better place. Quite frankly, I won't give away a horse. There might be one or two people I know that I would give a horse to in certain circumstances, but I've seen too many people that figure if they didn't pay anything for the horse, they don't owe it much in the way of care. Others that will take free horses do so only so that they can turn around & sell the horse for slaughter. If you think people wouldn't do that--think again! It happens all too often. I could name you people that go looking for the giveaway horses, spin a story about the great home the horse will have at their place, then the horse is immediately flipped on to the kill buyer.

I'm like Beccy; horses get euthanized here & buried. If it happened to be the dead of winter then we'd have to get the rendering truck in to pick the horse up. We have in the past had a local dog food processor come & shoot the horse & haul it away; shooting is still my favorite method, but there's no longer anyone around that I trust to do it well.
 
Beccy & Jane & minimor...... my thoughts exactlly. Thank you.

But I do want to add about composting. Contrary to what you may of heard,, composting of a large animal is not easy and is not done to the letter, or if you live in a area with a lot of rain or lots of cold,, the animal will not compost. Here it would be impossible for me because I have such a high predator base....they would just dig it up out of the compost pile. I also have no way to bury an animal that large... deep enough so ...again the predators don't dig it up.

While I hope to have many, many more years with my horses one never knows.

For the anti slaugher people,, you reap what you sow. You will have caused more harm than good, to the slaughter bound horses and much more suffering. The problems will be worse and the animals will suffer more. :no:

So what would be next for you? To take away all peoples rights to own animals so there will not be any animals in human hands... oh..no wait.... people pushing NAIS are already trying to do that.

Only people you will be punishing are the good people and good animals owners. Bad breeders and owners are always ....sadly...going to be there.

My horses are my heart and very much loved and needed. But I do not like zealots telling me I am evil for breeding once in awhile, or for even owning animals...

I have never sent a horse to slaughter and all my animals have found good homes. But some of you lump us all together.

Going to stop now...getting angry again.
 
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But I do want to add about composting. Contrary to what you may of heard,, composting of a large animal is not easy and is not done to the letter, or if you live in a area with a lot of rain or lots of cold,, the animal will not compost. Here it would be impossible for me because I have such a high predator base....they would just dig it up out of the compost pile. I also have no way to bury an animal that large... deep enough so ...again the predators don't dig it up.
Absolutely! Composting for an owner who has loses a horse occasionally may be an option, but not for the thousands that must be disposed of every year. Think of when the hoof and mouth crisis hit Britain a few years ago. They had to burn or bury absolutely thousands of animals. It must have cost a staggering amount. If this had to be done with horses who on earth would pay for it on a regular basis, and where would they put them when we run out of room? One does have to be realistic about this.

My horses are my heart and very much loved and needed. But I do not like zealots telling me I am evil for breeding once in awhile, or for even owning animals...

I have never sent a horse to slaughter and all my animals have found good homes. But some of you lump us all together.
Anti slaughter people seem to think that anyone who does not strongly oppose it does not care about animals. On the contrary, I deeply love every creature in my care, and care also for the ones I do not own and am not able to help. Just for the record, I used to be an opponent of slaughter, until I TRULY started thinking about both sides of the argument. If there was an alternative I would support it, but there just isn't one, and never will be.

Like Jane, I am not a vegetarian. I don't like that any animal has to be killed for food, but as that is what God gave us the animals for, I eat meat. It does not mean I do not have sympathy for any creature that is destined for the table, whether we raise it ourselves or not. Or that God does not intend us to be kind, compassionate and humane with these creatures that I believe He delighted in creating. I feel a pang of sadness for any truckload of cows, hogs or sheep or whatever we see heading to the stockyards, but it is because I am concerned for how they are transported, handled and killed. I don't want so much as a chicken to be treated badly while it is alive. We owe it to any animals we eat to see that they are well cared for, handled and transported humanely, and dispatched as quickly and painlessly as possible. I can't imagine ever eating horse meat, it is repugnant to me, but this is not the case for many people. I also feel sick at the thought of eating rabbit, but my mum was raised on it and loved it.

Has it occurred to anyone who watched with bated breath as they tried to rescue those hundred or so horses off the sandbar in Holland recently (and I was among those desperately hoping to see them rescued from their situation) that these horses are very possibly intended for food? Some Dutch people eat horsemeat, as do many of the neighbouring countries. Who am I to say that this is wrong just because I have a different relationship with horses than as a food animal?

To whomever it was that said it's not that difficult to find a home for a free horse....no, it's not. But finding a home for a free horse doesn't mean that horse is in a better place. Quite frankly, I won't give away a horse. There might be one or two people I know that I would give a horse to in certain circumstances, but I've seen too many people that figure if they didn't pay anything for the horse, they don't owe it much in the way of care. Others that will take free horses do so only so that they can turn around & sell the horse for slaughter. If you think people wouldn't do that--think again! It happens all too often. I could name you people that go looking for the giveaway horses, spin a story about the great home the horse will have at their place, then the horse is immediately flipped on to the kill buyer.
Exactly, finding a home for every unwanted horse will never ensure that it is not condemned to a life of misery or deprivation. I know of more than one person who has been given a free horse or pony only to turn around and sell it.

I'm like Beccy; horses get euthanized here & buried. If it happened to be the dead of winter then we'd have to get the rendering truck in to pick the horse up. We have in the past had a local dog food processor come & shoot the horse & haul it away; shooting is still my favorite method, but there's no longer anyone around that I trust to do it well.
This has not happened to us yet Holly, we know a man with a backhoe who when we have needed him, came almost as soon as we called, and buried the animal (cows in the past as well as horses) for us. When our old palomino mare had to be euthanized one January, he was able to get her in the ground JUST before we had a deep freeze, had it been even a day later we would have been faced with a problem as a horse euthanized with euthanol must not be left where any other animal can eat part of it. Not everyone has someone available to bury though, and it HAS to be deep burial if euthanol was involved.

I also agree that done by the right person, shooting is instant and painless, with no stress or fear. If we were not able to get a vet and it had to be done, my husband would be the only person I would trust to do it. I know him well enough to know that A) he knows what he is doing. B) He has a great love for these animals and does not ever want to see one suffer in any way. and C) that he would be doing it as a necessity in the situation, not a cheap way out. I would not trust anyone else.

The long and the short of it for me, is that every living creature deserves to be treated with respect while alive, and since there are not enough of us who take in old and unwanted animals (and those of us who do can only take so many) there will always have to be an alternative. Like it or not that is slaughter. I wish it wasn't, but it is, so our concern should be for how those horses are treated.
 
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...For the anti slaugher people,, you reap what you sow. You will have caused more harm than good, to the slaughter bound horses and much more suffering. The problems will be worse and the animals will suffer more. :no:

So what would be next for you? To take away all peoples rights to own animals so there will not be any animals in human hands... oh..no wait.... people pushing NAIS are already trying to do that.

Only people you will be punishing are the good people and good animals owners. Bad breeders and owners are always ....sadly...going to be there.

My horses are my heart and very much loved and needed. But I do not like zealots telling me I am evil for breeding once in awhile, or for even owning animals...

I have never sent a horse to slaughter and all my animals have found good homes. But some of you lump us all together.

Going to stop now...getting angry again.
Shari not to single you out just the statement which I believe is the crux of the matter. We reached critical mass in all this many years ago and now yes, you are correct people are reaping what they've sown now through things like NAIS and the push to ban slaughter. Bad is always going to be amongst us but they have been the ones to push this along. No one said you or anyone was evil for breeding animals, the act itself is hardly a crime. The crime lies in what follows. If people refuse to acknowledge and regulate themselves, then something even worse for animals will foisted upon them. It's not the mass breeders who are the only problem they are just more visiable and easier to point a finger to. It's the millions upon millons who think that what they do in their small part of the world has absolutley no effect. It does and it has.

And Fizz I absolutley agree you are no hypocrite. Breeding and slaughter have always had a long history together. To do the former and not believe in the latter would truly be hypocritical. The act of breeding by its very nature is so uncertain that it's impossible not to end up with some that need to be culled and so the cycle continues. I absolutely have never understood those who do breed and rescue. They seem to counter each other and makes no sense. You know what kind of situation I'm dealing with where I'm at yet the person continues to breed. Good horses? Yes. But for every one on the ground there are 100 more to replace them, most well bred and nice too, that nobody wanted. I'm sure they were wanted a least once in their lives, it's not likely that the vast majority of breeders are hauling them off en mass to directly to the slaughter yards.

If there ever is a banning and in time you can be sure it will happen with the forces that are in league behind it, I do think some terrible changes will be levied on good and bad alike. But that will be the price we all will have to pay for our arrogance and stupidity.
 
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Shirley, You always put into words, my thoughts and feelings There are ways to solve problems but when they are suggested it seems they are shot down. Composting could be a way to handle part of the bodies of the horses ...it is being researched. I understand there is a need to take care of what has died and been unwanted. Why concern is the humane treatment of the horses that are old and unwanted...to send them off to auctions and then hauled to slaughter without humane treatment is uncivilized. Once an amimal is humanly put to rest, then I don't worry about it. Mary

...For the anti slaugher people,, you reap what you sow. You will have caused more harm than good, to the slaughter bound horses and much more suffering. The problems will be worse and the animals will suffer more. :no:

So what would be next for you? To take away all peoples rights to own animals so there will not be any animals in human hands... oh..no wait.... people pushing NAIS are already trying to do that.

Only people you will be punishing are the good people and good animals owners. Bad breeders and owners are always ....sadly...going to be there.

My horses are my heart and very much loved and needed. But I do not like zealots telling me I am evil for breeding once in awhile, or for even owning animals...

I have never sent a horse to slaughter and all my animals have found good homes. But some of you lump us all together.

Going to stop now...getting angry again.
Shari not to single you out just the statement which I believe is the crux of the matter. We reached critical mass in all this many years ago and now yes, you are correct people are reaping what they've sown now through things like NAIS and the push to ban slaughter. Bad is always going to be amongst us but they have been the ones to push this along. No one said you or anyone was evil for breeding animals, the act itself is hardly a crime. The crime lies in what follows. If people refuse to acknowledge and regulate themselves, then something even worse for animals will foisted upon them. It's not the mass breeders who are the only problem they are just more visiable and easier to point a finger to. It's the millions upon millons who think that what they do in their small part of the world has absolutley no effect. It does and it has.

And Fizz I absolutley agree you are no hypocrite. Breeding and slaughter have always had a long history together. To do the former and not believe in the latter would truly be hypocritical. The act of breeding by its very nature is so uncertain that it's impossible not to end up with some that need to be culled and so the cycle continues. I absolutely have never understood those who do breed and rescue. They seem to counter each other and makes no sense. You know what kind of situation I'm dealing with where I'm at yet the person continues to breed. Good horses? Yes. But for every one on the ground there are 100 more to replace them, most well bred and nice too, that nobody wanted. I'm sure they were wanted a least once in their lives, it's not likely that the vast majority of breeders are hauling them off en mass to directly to the slaughter yards.

If there ever is a banning and in time you can be sure it will happen with the forces that are in league behind it, I do think some terrible changes will be levied on good and bad alike. But that will be the price we all will have to pay for our arrogance and stupidity.
 
Have you ever seen an unsedated horse put down? I have, and trust me it can be ugly. No pretty music and sad memories there, let me tell you. I will never allow any horse of mine to be put down without sedation.
are you talking about euthnizing a horse with the appropriate drug or shoting them in the head?

We euthanize horses using beuthanasia without sedation........when done properly (blocking the vein unil all of the drug has been injected so it is "dosed all at once") the horse is brain dead before it drops to the ground. the majority of "wheezing" or "gasping you're probably speaking of is due to the muscles responding to a lack of oxygen.....not because the animal is still alive. you will see this even after the heart has stopped beating (kind of lik chickens running around without heads). sedating before hand actually prolongs the death because the heart rate & respiration slows making the serum take longer to circulate & take effect. sedation only makes it "look" better....certainly doesn't make it more humane.

excuse any typing errors....typing one-handed today (hand surgery Thurs)
 
Anti slaughter people seem to think that anyone who does not strongly oppose it does not care about animals.
That is a very sore point point with me - those on their high horse - heh - who look down their noses at those of us who do not have a knee-jerk reaction and jump to sign any Ban Slaughter peitions... irk me to no end.

I care plenty.

And unlike many here - I have actually toured a well-run slaughterhouse in Canada. As I know I have detailed on this forum in the past. Why? Because I want to see things firsthand. A friend's dad worked there - so we went for a visit. Instead of relying on video - I have seen the real thing done in a professional manner. NO - horses are not hung upside down alive to be bled out. The horse is dead before he collapses in the chute - and if the operator had any concerns he used the charge gun twice - quickly. No doubt about it - but that scenario does not suit the purposes of the overwrought Animal Rights types.

Knee-jerk reactions to stopping slaughter never consider the BIG picture - or else they try to look the other way. They offer no viable solutions in the meantime. We need to fix the transportation issues... and the holding issues...

Someone I know who is vehemently anti-slaughter constantly breeds her poor quality little poodles (who look more like poodles with dachsie bodies) - and has no concern for what happens to the puppies she merrily churns out... I find that a bit of a jaw-dropping contradiction. Maybe if she had volunteered at a shelter as I have - and held cats and dogs for their final injections and saw them on their way... maybe then she would care. Nah - who am I kidding - she wouldn't.

Closing the slaughterhouses is like putting a plug in the drain... and not caring about the water that starts filling the tub. It is not the solution....
 
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Why concern is the humane treatment of the horses that are old and unwanted...to send them off to auctions and then hauled to slaughter without humane treatment is uncivilized. Once an amimal is humanly put to rest, then I don't worry about it. Mary
One of the reasons I was against horse slaughter for so long is the old ones. They bother me the most, the ones that have spent a lifetime serving and learning to trust humans, only to be betrayed by them. Which is exactly why our old horses stay here, and why when we have considered taking one (large horse or pony) in it has usually been an older one with no other option. I wish all old horses had somewhere to go to be loved and cared for.

But no matter how badly I feel about this, there will always be horses betrayed by their humans, and those same humans want their money back out of them and will not fork out the dollars to have numerous animals a year euthanized and disposed of. In operations like thoroughbred farms, every animal is an investment, and on many farms at the end of a life when there is no more use for them, the bottom line still wins out over fairness. If it didn't they wouldn't stay in business.

I am not "shooting down" the idea of composting, merely saying can you imagine the kinds of numbers we are talking about, where they would go, and who would pay for it? And what happens to an already dead animal is not my main concern, it is the live ones.

Shirley when you say people who "breed and rescue", I am not sure who you are referring to, but speaking for myself, we do not actively do rescue work, but have always had an interest in helping animals that needed somewhere to go, be it dogs, cats or horses. We have taken in several large horses and ponies over the years, but we have never bred or sold (other than the one mentioned in one of my other posts) the large ones, which are the vast bulk of what goes to slaughter.

Breeding the minis is something that we love doing, and we do not take it lightly. Nor do we see it as a money making thing, HA, we would have a long wait for that! But I do perhaps feel a bit more of an obligation to give back when I can, and if that means taking in one occasionally that needs somewhere to go, so be it.

It is no different than people who breed dogs (which I could never do btw). The ones I know who are dedicated to their chosen breeds, and passionate about them, are the ones who screen buyers, have return policies, and are involved with breed rescues when the need arises. The ones who are in it because the dogs are "cute" or to make money, are not the ones who are going to go out and take in the unwanted ones, or buy back one that a new owner has changed their mind on. If there is an older or previously sold dog in need of a home, these people don't want to know about it. I have more respect for the ones who are doing their best to breed good dogs, not churn out vast numbers to make a profit, and who will do their part when a dog who is no longer wanted needs placing. If THEY stop breeding, you are left with only the ones who are money driven and that would be a sad day.

I take my hat off to the mini breeders who also actively do rescue work, they are doing something which the money hungry breeders won't dirty their hands with.
 
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Shirley when you say people who "breed and rescue", I am not sure who you are referring to, but speaking for myself, we do not actively do rescue work, but have always had an interest in helping animals that needed somewhere to go, be it dogs, cats or horses. We have taken in several large horses and ponies over the years, but we have never bred or sold (other than the one mentioned in one of my other posts) the large ones, which are the vast bulk of what goes to slaughter.

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Not referring to anyone here but I am involved in a situation where the person does both and not just as an aside. If anyone should be in tune to the ramifications of what happens to horses long after the breeder releases them it's this person yet still does not make the connection and like so many others does as she pleases regardless of the big picture. It's the height of hypocrisy to say "do as I say but not as I do" which unfortunately, she does. Although she does contracts for both the ones she's bred and the rescues but they are pretty much meaningless. I've yet to hear of any being truly protected from harm although it entitles her to reclaim but as time goes on the contract is null and void with future owners if they eventually sell don't return them.

The solution has always been slaughter but if that goes away, then people will be forced to create new ones or stop doing what they do. I guess the time to choose is coming. I've spoken with folks who have property around the Texas plants and they are hardly animal rights activists. They have complained about the stench, filth and noise for years and seen their property values plummet. I'm glad that Canada has clean, well-run plants but I don't see them welcoming the burden of our inability to control our desires to over produce any time in the near future as a solution either.
 
This situation is never going to be resolved sensibly but, please, no-one on this Forum is pointing a finger at anyone else- maybe because we all care so deeply, maybe because most, if not all of us, has held a beloved old friend, or even new friend, whilst they take their last journey, we feel a bit too much, but no-one should take remarks personally, that much I do know.

Tag, I agree wholeheartedly about horses slaughtered correctly- all mine have been shot and they are dead where they stand, I can assure you.

My knacker is a perfectionist- he risks his life on a regular basis, when most men his age are retired, to make sure the odd "rogue" horse is dispatched immediately and humanely.

We should be fighting to have more facilities opened- over here we have asked for "seasonal" abattoirs for the "waste" colts off the hills and moorlands (I hate the term but what else would you call them?? No-one wants them, they are worthless commercially) Breeders could take their pathetic little flotsam there and leave them safe in the knowledge that they would never be passed from market to market in the hope of a few dollars profit.

The breeders would get nothing for them, true, but they would still rather see this happen to them and so would I.

So far we have got no response- can you imagine how "joe public" would react when it got out??

Unless you bring in all the native ponies, unless you trap all the Mustangs the Brumbies and all the other Feral horses all over the world, the problem will never end.

Unless you stop the racing industry from breeding, this problem will not go away.

Unless you stop people breeding from animals because they have a colt and a mare and hey- a foal would make money, right?? the problem will not go away.

What on EARTH does the government think is going to happen to the horses if they close the abattoirs??

Hey- was that ME who used the words "government" and "think" in the same sentence??

Sorry, silly me
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