Nothing truly important, but this really bugs me...

[Ashley]

I have been showing for 11 years, it took me years before I was comfortable walking in the ring for these very reasons. Now I dont give a crap. I dont even bother takeing out any of my peirceings, not even for showmanship.

I figure if somebody wants to judge me well, the heck with them. The same as for showmanship. HOwever its hasnt ever hurt me as I am still able to do well, and win at times.

I think if they are comfortable with it then have at it.

 

[Lauralee]

Thank you kaykay for your very timely words.

I am not saying that I never make fun of people....I am a people watcher....my husband and I will observe every nuance of a person, and privately giggle to ourselves what we might think. This is all of course in good humor but would certainly hurt the feelings of the people we are observing. That does not give me the right to post in writing, my opinions and thoughts on a public forum, when the words are undoubtedly going to hurt someone's feelings.

This is a very catty thread, and I despise cattiness in women, and men too for that matter.

I say it again, Just because you have the right to possess an opinion does not give you the right to express it.

I have thoughts and opinions on many subjects that would hurt LOTS of feelings. But I keep them to myself. I think that is the most humane thing to do.

I fully support all the less than perfect exhibitors here in whatever show attire gives them confidence. That is what this is all about. Acceptance of others and encouragement. Even though I may not completely embrace certain modes of attire and presentation, the LEAST I can do is shut up and offer encouragement.

You go Ashley! If wearing your piercings in the show ring gives you energy, and brings personality to your presentation, then more power to you!

 

[OhHorsePee]

Hey, I figure if they are comfortable with how they look then so be it. As long as the areolas aren't showing I don't care what they wear. Diversity is a lovely thing.

Fran

 

[Margo_C-T]

Susanne, I'm totally in agreement.

It is, indeed, a matter of taste. Although I personally consider ANY sleeveless, bare-shouldered evening gown basically inappropriate as attire for driving, even at a "SHOW, SHOW"!(and yes, I understand perfectly about evening hours and formal wear, etc., etc.), I can concede that such a look can be workable for slender teenagers/young women whose musculature is firm and who don't have a sizable 'shelf' up front. All of the photos of the young women presented fit those parameters of GOOD TASTE-as in,no strapless, basic, uncomplicated dress lines, and tasteful fronts(not showing cleavage!), no 'cigarette skirts'with deep side slits, no ruffles, etc.-I'm sure you get my drift. Glitz for evening--shiny/metallic fabrics, beads and/or sequins, etc.?-- yes, of course, but within the bounds of good taste-remembering that there is a time and a place for everything...! As for Country Pleasure, and/or a look suitable to ADS--again, with good taste, there is absolutely NO need to look 'frumpy'!( In her photos, Dontworrybeappy showed a very tasteful and appropriate look for breed ring country pleasure, BTW. ) Have I seen, in person and in photos, 'frumpy' and/or inappropriate 'costuming' in both ADS and breed ring presentation? You bet; again, it is a matter of taste! Howver, BIG hats are never really correct, as a floppy brim is both undesirable and can even be dangerous. I believe it is probably more of a challenge, fashion and stylewise, to put together a correct AND appealing Country Pleasure/ADS-type of turnout than it is to come up with something truly appropriate AND with a proper 'look' for a breed evening show ring.

It seems to be a (not-so-appealing, IMO)aspect of human nature to take ANY idea and carry it to the extreme; I believe this is what may have happened in the 'dressing up' aspect of horse showing. Not a thing wrong with shopping at the thrift store, nor with wearing your shorts or jeans and sensible shoes under that dress or skirt, but just using common sense and good taste in your choice of how you present yourself is the best aid you can have in competition. The driver is there to present and to complement the horse, not to overwhelm with their own 'look'!

Interesting comment from wildoak about AQHA(and other stock horse)showing...and she is oh, so right! The AQHA Rulebook used to say "neat, clean, and WORKMANLIKE(caps mine)"-but boy, has THAT gone by the wayside! (For some reason, I occasionally receive a Hobby Horse catalog--my, my!) Reference back to my comment above about taking EVERYTHING to the extreme; same with the way horses have, in the past 20 or so years, been presented in WP; BOY, have I looked forward to the time when the pendulum swings back toward center and some degree of good sense, and I am hoping, for the horses' sake, that that is FINALLY starting to happen....Sorry for the slightly OT, but it IS the same ballpark.

(Lastly, I have to say--I see NO ONE being 'attacked', or 'flamed',in this thread; I am often amazed at how 'thin-skinned' some people seem to be; how ready to presume that THEY are being somehow 'picked on'--or how ready to presume that they somehow need to defend nameless others? If you are secure in who you are and what you do, why would it make one IOTA of difference what someone who does not know you thinks; as has so OFTEN been pointed out here, everyone has an opinion-if you value their experience and thoughts, listen and consider; otherwise, just move on...)

Margo

 

[Ashley]

Its not a matter of haveing energy. The fact is if you were to meet me on the street this is how I would be. If I have to totally change me and how I look to do something I love doing then it isnt worth doing.

Like I said so far they havent ever hurt me in showmanship where you are judged on you so it cant be all that bad. (for the record I have two eyebrow peirceings and a labret).

As for the driveing. You just would never get me in a dress. I am to much of a tomboy. I do ware jackets when I drive mainly.

Plus you would never see me drive at nationals, at least not with what I have now. I am to fat to make my little dude pull me around that much and that long.

I did see a few at nationals that made me kind of wonder. But for the most part I looked at alot of them and said, heck if I had the body like that and could get away with it you bet I would be wareing it!

I also like to see the heavier ones dress up. It shows that they have so much confidence in there self which in my opinon just adds to there preformance and presence. Not everybody in life can be skinny and perfect. I find that most that have a issue with others are haveing a issue with themself of some sort.

 

[Minimor]

interestingly, AMHR rules state that in pleasure driving, drivers should dress appropriately--to complement the look of the unit, not detract from it. The rule ends with the statement that horses are being judged, not the driver.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I can concede that such a look can be workable for slender teenagers/young women whose musculature is firm and who don't have a sizable 'shelf' up front. Margo

this is just ONE of the things that has been said here that ONCE AGAIN is telling our girls... be perfect or hide yourself...

I am not sure where or why I have been to formal events unlike the ones many here have been to but

-GASP- older women and women of all sizes DO wear evening gowns and DO look Darn good doing so. IN the driving ring, in a ball room, at a party or in a grocery store doesnt matter where you are they still LOOK GOOD!

And quite frankly why is it up us women to judge how another one looks if her arms are to flabby her ****s to small or to big, her rear to large, her thighs to big, her dress the wrong color?

We think that girls have eating disorders and self esteem problems due to media..

Well HELLO this thread is a PERFECT example of what we as women do to ourselves and to our daughters period!

When was the last time you heard a man at a formal function saying OH MY look at that guy in the tails doesnt he know his belly is to big for that or doesnt he see those tails make his butt look huge?

Yes I agree this is somewhat off topic as in I am not now going back to who or what looks good in the driving ring however I will say once more those that cant see what or how they are part of this problem please look back and read what has been written.

I am NOT perfectI have committed some of the above crimes and IMO they truly are CRIMES against ourselves as women and if you dont think they are.... look at the power those words have the next time you are talking with a woman or child who is bulimic, or anorexic or one who doesnt have one lick of self esteem, think back to the people who were the cruelest to you with words and 9 times out of ten it will have been another girl/women.

and yes this IS related to this thread IMO and yes it is something we almost ALL have been guilty of and surely is something we ALL need to be aware of so we can really think about what we are saying and the effect it truly has on EVERYONE reading it.

So to those who dress so beautifully in those driving classes KEEP ON DOING IT you look wonderful and to those who dont think so.. well remember you dont have to look in there mirror!

 

[Yaddax3]

A few things ...

* Susanne should post a picture of herself in evening wear so everybody knows just what to look like.

* Trashy doesn't have to be a negative thing. If you want to attract more men to shows, the show manager should be advertising that women will be dressed trashy. (OK, maybe you'd only attract lecherous men, but at least attendance would be up.)

* And ...

A friend was videotaping a Nationals Liberty class for us and also taped some driving classes. Hubby was doing the taping. One lady driver was very well endowed and very barely dressed. As the camera was panning over the exhibitors it suddenly got stuck on this one exhibitor! For the WHOLE class the camera was almost entirely on this exhibitor! I'm sure hubby didn't realize what he was doing, but he was 'watching' through the camera.

Hubby knew exactly what he was doing. He also was living in the moment. What he wasn't doing was thinking that the missus would be watching later.

 

[Feather1414]

Personally, I think I am missing the point.

The dresses Pam posted of Patty driving look LOVELY and that is exactly what I like to wear in the ring.

I think that if the dress is so puffy that is puffing up out of the cart perhaps something should be done. However, I wear a dress like Patty's and I like elbow length gloves and and a hat. Then underneath I normally have sneakers. True, if the driving class if before 5, I wear thense flowy driving pants I have plus a black slinky and this very nice beaded top over the top. It looks very classy if I do say so myself.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I for one have NO problem with large or small, wide or narrow showing and doing so proudly!!

It is just very foreign to me (understandably!!) to see a ballgown in a carriage.

Still, each to their own, I suppose.

I cannot remember anyone being catty or mean, I think this thread has stayed pretty civilised, actually.

 

[Yaddax3]

I cannot remember anyone being catty or mean, I think this thread has stayed pretty civilised, actually.

Rabbitsfizz,

As Frasier Crane once said to Cliff Claven, what color is the sky in your world?

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Rabbitsfizz,

As Frasier Crane once said to Cliff Claven, what color is the sky in your world?

Now how can I not LOVE someone who can quote things from Cheers!

 

[Ashley]

Lisa~

:aktion033: :aktion033:

: :aktion033: :aktion033:

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The sky at the moment is grey.

That is both rude and catty, by the way.

I have been back through the whole thread and have found nothing particularly rude or offensive in here at all, just people stating their opinions and stating over and over that it is just their opinion!!

Seems to me some people are just too thin skinned.

But, of course, that is JUST my opinion!!

OK I'm done with this thread as it would seem that a handful of people are determined to make of that which I know was never intended.

 

[kaykay]

These stupid shiny, strapless, trashy dresses really undermine and detract from the beautiful horses.

...and then to see middle-aged women doing this is downright laughable!

Some of the outfits look like cheap hookers trying to drum up business

Not offensive?

Is 42 middle aged?? LOL. Just trying to lighten the mood :bgrin

 

[nootka]

I guess I know susanne in person, so I have an advantage, but I understood what she meant.

She wasn't poking fun at people doing their best, she was poking fun at a "trend."

I know it's hard not to feel self-conscious, lord knows I do, and I would never wear some of the things out there, but again I don't show at that level nor do I have a pleasure horse, etc.

There are some beautiful and tasteful outfits here, and all of them posted have been heartily appropriate and flattering. I would never comment on someone's looks that way as far as size, etc.

I just think there are some better choices in some case, for the overall look, but then I will admit myself I am fashion challenged. Anyone who got offended perhaps has feelings that they are inadequate or whatever, but I know susanne never would intend that. I guess I should not speak for her, just going by what I know about her.

It's alarming to see SOME of what's worn (referring to the CLOTHES not the person), but I would say most people really do wear nice outfits and look great and it's great to see them out there. I am in AWE of you who drive and show at a National/World level as well as locally.

Liz M.

 

[susanne]

Thank you, Margo...you have said it all much better than I.

(...and Liz and Jane...I saw your posts after I wrote this one)

This was not intended to put down women of a certain age or body type -- I'm 48 and dumpy. I have not been skinny since I was 9. To this day, I'm more fashion victim than fashion police.

My point from the beginning was the TYPE of dress, and how silly I think they look. Period. That's all. I'm sorry that many have taken this personally, but that was not how it was intended.

Yaddox, if I had a camera I'd be happy to post a photo of me in what I would wear.

As a jazz and classical musician, I must dress for a variety of occasions, from formal concerts to wild nightclubs. I'm onstage front and center, and I am judged constantly. I have to look the part, but if I tried to look like an 18-year-old, I'd be laughed offstage. I tend to go for beautiful fabrics and colors, with long, slimming lines -- not that it helps, haha. But it is absolutely possible to be both "showy" and dignified.

And yet...here's a story to give you a laugh at my expense...

At one club we were playing, I was wearing my usual "artsy" long jacket, no exposed skin, nothing provocative whatsoever. We were on fire that night; I was very pleased with how I'd been playing and the audience was duly appreciative. On break, a strange man came up to me. "I love your playing...It's the ****s that do it."

 

[Sanny]

No offense, but who in the world came up with this dorky idea?
I know that breed show driving has very little to do with carriage driving, but nonetheless, a lot could be learned from fine carriage turnout. These stupid shiny, strapless, trashy dresses really undermine and detract from the beautiful horses.

...and then to see middle-aged women doing this is downright laughable! I can't imagine these women wearing such a get-up at the most formal occasion...partly because such a dress would be completely out of place...so why in the show ring?

Barf-o-bits!!

No offense, but who in the world came up with the dorky idea that "formals or prom dresses" are inappropriate for evening driving classes ? oh....wait......it was Susanne.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you posted this for no particular reason except you wanted to tell the world what you thought. Good for you. Just be prepared that plenty of people that disagree with you will feel entitled to post their opinion. I actually wasn't even going to waste my time posting but I'm feeling feisty today and decided it was time for me to weigh in. I think it was the "Barf-o-bits" that set me off.

I am curious though....what shows are you attending or competing at that you are supposedly seeing this look? We went to 8 or 9 shows this year and all I ever saw in driving classes were pant suits or black pants or long black skirts paired with blazers or vests over slinkies or a pretty blouse and at most a little sparkle here and there with a scattering of rhinestones or sequin trim or a rhinestone clip in the hair. Any dresses that I saw were really pretty plain and simple and nothing I would be embarrassed to wear someplace else.

Nationals is another story but most of the driving classes were in the evening and men were wearing tuxes and/or tails and top hats and women were in (gasp) beautiful gowns or other elaborate formal attire - fancy blazers or sequin jackets, etc. I love all of that so I am quite sure I am one of the "tacky women" you are talking about. If the way I chose to dress makes you barf then either look away or carry a barf bag.

99% of the time these days I am wearing jeans, t-shirts, boots and my hair is in a pony tail and usually has bits of hay or shavings in it. I've also usually got baby spit up, toddler hand prints and food stains on me too so I personally love the chance to have a little fun and dress up and do my hair and make up - even if it is for a horse show. I enjoy coming up with different dressy outfits -sequins and rhinestones included - that "match" our different horses. My daughter loves doing this too so it is something we have fun with together.

I am often amazed at how 'thin-skinned' some people seem to be; how ready to presume that THEY are being somehow 'picked on'--or how ready to presume that they somehow need to defend nameless others?

I'm not thin-skinned at all and I could care less if someone wants to make fun of me or what I choose to wear. I am, however, one of those that feels the need to defend nameless others. If I were watching a driving class and if I overheard someone nearby snickering about "the fat one out there in the ugly tacky sequin prom dress" I'd have no problem getting in their face and going after them right there on the spot.

Life is too short to sit on the sidelines and just watch the parade go by because you feel you are not perfect or are not sure how to dress. The woman of all ages, shapes and sizes that have the courage to put themselves out there in the midst of it all doing something they love while wearing something of their own choosing that makes them personally feel beautiful (whether someone else likes the style or color or not) deserve a standing ovation. There is nothing more attractive to me than someone - man or woman - being unique and individual and "different" instead of following the crowd, caving in to peer pressure and trying to conform to someone elses ideal. From what I've seen too - from the local level on up to nationals - the person that on that particular day of judging had the best horse and best drive of the class has won whether they were wearing their hair in a bun and a plain black business suit or full sequins, feather boas and floppy hats.

If anyone thinks I'm being overly sensitive or taking this topic personally - maybe I am. I know all about being "judged" for how I look - good or bad - I can handle it - and in the past I've chosen to put myself out there for judgement and opinion on how I look or how I dress. I'm far from perfect but I used to do pageants (people love 'em or hate 'em) and I'm a former Mrs. Minnesota - America and have worn both skimpy bathing suits with 4" heels and eleborate sequin evening gowns on national television (and I personally was being scored - not my horse). I was also a Minnesota Vikings Cheerleader for eight years (again, people love 'em or hate 'em) and I'm pretty sure I wasn't picked for the team because of my sparkling personality. It was all about being judged for my looks and dance ability.

I've been fat too, so I know how it feels when someone points that fact out to me (like I didn't already know - duh) or says something mean like "boy has she let herself go". I've had four kids and gained an average of 70 lbs each pregnancy and I know I'm darn lucky that in spite of the fact that I like to eat the weight comes back off and I can get back into size 6's again and no matter what my age is if I can fit into a "prom dress" that I think is pretty I'm going to wear it and I want a picture of me in it to show my grandkids.

As a jazz and classical musician, I must dress for a variety of occasions, from formal concerts to wild nightclubs. I'm onstage front and center, and I am judged constantly. I have to look the part, but if I tried to look like an 18-year-old, I'd be laughed offstage. I tend to go for beautiful fabrics and colors, with long, slimming lines -- not that it helps, haha. But it is absolutely possible to be both "showy" and dignified.

Woman who are working hard and training their horses and showing are doing so because they want to be judged for their ability and efforts in that area - the horse and the handling of the horse is being judged not what the handler is choosing to wear so why not just back off and let them wear what THEY want - not what YOU think they should wear. I bet it would hurt your feelings if someone came a club to watch you play and said nothing about your music - just talked about the "ugly fabrics and colors" you chose that you personally thought were "beautiful and slimming". There are also plenty of women in the entertainment industry your age that do "dress like 18 year olds" and I think they look fantastic.

The only times I've seen someone or heard of someone's placing being affected by what they were wearing was when a judge looked inside someones cart and lifted the hem of her dress and saw that they had on scruffy tennis shoes and said something like I guess you don't take this seriously or something like that and said something about marking her down for inappropriate attire. (That is a judge that is known for her own dramatic and unique outfits and hats) The other was someone in a COLOR class that had on jeans was told they didn't place them because of it and someone else was DQ'd in the same COLOR class because of inappropriate footwear and wearing a shirt that didn't have a collar.

I'm done with my little rant so anyone that wants to flame my opinion - go for it.

WAIT....one more thing.....

This was not intended to put down women of a certain age or body type

yes it was.....in your own words......

and then to see middle-aged women doing this is downright laughable

 

[Manyspots]

This has been a fun thread to read. Of course it is personal preference, but it is interesting to watch what ladies do wear as well as the gentlemen. I have witnessed some beautiful, simple elegant garments worn by the ladies as well as some that you wonder what on earth were they thinking. Being a middle aged grandma I still like to wear some bling-bling at times and at other times more simple, quiet outfits. As for the sleeveless garments not for me, that is for the younger gals. If an older lady can wear something like that though, more power to her.

I think it is fun to wear things often purchased from places like Hobby Horse. My family is amazed though to see me ever in a dress or skirt, as jeans and slacks are my norm. The only time I wear dresses or skirts is for driving classes. My only problem now though is heaven help me if there is a funeral or anything I need to go to, as most of my "good stuff" has glitter, sequins and bling bling for showing.

I do remember when an attractive lady (from Canada) came to Iowa to show, drove a white mini and wore what looked like a short white wedding dress, with a white hat what a beautiful sight to see. This was quite a few years ago and many of us that were at that show still remember how pretty it was.

Prom dresses and prissy not for me, but to each their own. Makes a fun horse show! Lavonne

 

[Tabitha]

When was the last time you heard a man at a formal function saying OH MY look at that guy in the tails doesnt he know his belly is to big for that or doesnt he see those tails make his butt look huge?

You'd be surprised how often I have heard men make statements to that effect, about other men as well as about women.
I'd hope the message "we" send out to women and girls is that everyone should learn to dress in a manner which flatters each of our body types. An evening gown which I--an old lady of medium build--would choose for myself to wear would be quite different from what a slim little 16 year old would wear. Why does formal wear have to mean strapless/sleeveless/low neck line and made of puffy, shiny satin? Of course overweight ladies can and should wear formal gowns if they choose to, but I'd hope they (and everyone, be she young, old, heavy, thin...) would chose something that suits her particular build. I have a friend who is extremely large--not fat, but just big built--and she is a real clothes horse; has dozens of outfits & looks great in all of them. She says herself she shops carefully to avoid getting anything which will make her look like a tent. My daughter has a big butt and small ****s, and she dresses carefully to disguise the former & enhance the latter. She always laughs when people comment on how they wish they were slim and small butted like she is! You can bet she would not be seen in public wearing an outfit that makes her butt look bigger and her ****s look smaller. Women can look every bit as elegant in a high necked, long sleeved dress as they can in a spaghetti strapped, low cut gown--in many many cases they look much more elegant in the high necked long sleeved dress. There are some gaudy outfits out there that actually detract from the horse's performance.

I didn't see this thread as being anything to do with weight, it was simply saying that there are some inappropriate outfits out there--in the opinion of some--it's not even about age (and remember this is from someone that is far from being either young or svelte!!) other than the opinion of the OP & some others is that some older women don't look good when they try to dress like 16 or 18 year olds.