Obese gelding

[Aidansmama]

I was recently given a very obese miniature horse and I would like to get him to a healthy weight. Unfortunately his feet were also very long so we are working at bringing those a healthy shape/length. How much should he be eating? I still have a nice amount of grass in the pasture and my two full sized horses are out for 8 hours a day. How long should he be out to graze? Also once the we start feeding hay how much should he be getting? I weigh out my full sized horses and feed and spread it out over three feedings. Prior to coming to my home he was out on pasture 24-7 so I don't want to shock his system but he needs to drop a lot of weight. Once his feet are fixed up I will start him in the round pen but he is pretty tender right now.

 

[chandab]

How tall is he? How old is he? With this we can guestimate a good weight for him to be close to.

Right now while he's so chunky, he probably shouldn't be on any pasture, and should have his whole diet measured out for him. You don't want to diet him too quickly or that could cause problems, obese minis are prone to hyperlipidemia if they lose weight too fast. for now, a good grass hay and a good vit/min supplement along with salt and water is probably all he needs. How much to be determined when we find out his size.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have to tell you that, alongside some of my furry hippos, he does not even look fat so- what are your aims for him? Do you intend to drive him? Do you intend to work him in performance? If the answer is no you have to ask yourself why you are dieting him. He is a little overweight, true, but then, at this time of year, is that such a bad thing? Is he is in danger of foundering or is he happy and healthy and able to run around? All these things are relevant as, although taking an animals physical health into account is important we do need to remember their psychological well being as well. Taking him off grass when he has been used to just grazing all day is going to be an awful shock not only to his system but to his happiness too.

 

[AnnaC]

LOL!! Jane - your lot and my lot would obviously get on well (I would call mine obese hippos!!) But at this time of year I wouldn't have them looking any other way with all the elements this coming winter will be throwing at them, plus you should see them racing and chasing each other round the fields on a regular basis!

I agree with Jane in that it could be very detrimental to both his system and mental health to make much of a change to what he has been used to. I suggest you concentrate on getting his feet sorted for now as this will help him to move around more comfortably and therefore to take more exercise. Once they are sorted you can start with some daily walks and later a few minutes in a round pen on a daily basis, building up slowly. But with the winter months coming on, it is never a good idea to be reducing too much weight (if the weather changes suddenly to a very cold spell, they can 'fall away' very quickly), better to wait until early spring to set up a new 'programme' depending upon his then condition and what you want to do with him.

The goodness in the grass is fading now so it is mostly just providing bulk - make sure he has a salt and mineral block available. He will obviously need hay ad lib if you have snow, but otherwise it will just depend upon the amount of grass available, perhaps offering some every now and then to see if he wants it or if he wanders away to continue eating the grass. My 'feral' herd only get hay when there is snow on the ground, but as hay will help warm a horse up, we do put out an offering if we have had more than a couple of days of continuous cold rain.

Good luck with your new boy, he looks a real sweety.

 

[MyMiniGal]

Rabbitfizz, I love your "furry hippo" comment. My husband and I have taken over the feeding of Halo, where she is boarded, and she started getting her winter woolies, so I thought she was getting fat, but anytime we tried to cut back her food, boy, was she cranky! On top of, where she is boarded, there are a bunch of Arabians. Beautiful ones. So to them, she does look chunky, but they don't get the winter woolies like mini's do. Anyway, I would rather have Halo happy, and being able to keep warm, than cut back, right now, on her. I know, since this is my first winter with her, and my first time being the one to totally control her food intake, we are learning. I feel for ribs here and there, which is getting harder and harder, due to her fuzzy coat. Anyway, I agree with cutting back on this guy may be detrimental to his happiness. Like I said, boy, did Halo get cranky. LOL And if you have a hungry, cranky mini, doing anything with them, isn't as pleasant as having a content, happy one.

 

[amysue]

I would not try to reduce weight with winter coming, but gradually improve his health/stamina with a bit of exercise. I would not take away pasture, as the stress may induce colic, but buy a mini grazing muzzle to limit his intake. Jeffers sells mini sized ones that work great. What type of feed is he on? you could feed a low starch feed or even hay pellet so he gets to eat a ration, but it does not pack on the pounds. I like the purina mini feed for my easy keepers and I just give them a half of a flake of hay morning and night (but my husband bales hay at like the speed of light, so my bales only have like 9 flakes when they should have 14) so one flake of a correctly baled bale should be sufficient. I would lunge him for a few minutes each day, at least an hour after feeding, ideally more and only for a few minutes every day until you work him up to a full work out. Average, ten minute workouts daily after the introductory period to keep him in shape.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I'm going to have agree with rabbit, I don't think he looks all that obese. That winter coat can be very deceiving. Have you felt a thick crest on his neck? fat pads on his rump? What other than visual cues has you believing he is terribly obese? I think you could offer him pasture for part of the day and a hay/ration balancer pellet for the evening and wait to see where he is at come spring when he sheds out. In general a horse (of any size) needs between 1.5 - 2% of their ideal body weight in feed to maintain the proper weight. Individually they may need more. If you are convinced he is obese by what you can feel as well as see I would not reduce below 2% and considering the time of year and what he is accustomed to I would be very cautious about reducing his intake, do it a little at a time rather than all at once.

 

[Max's Mom]

Minis do get sooo fuzzy! A well meaning person mentioned the other day that our mini looked like he was putting on weight, but in truth, he just looks that way because he's so fuzzy now, and she was used to seeing him in the summer. One thing that I find very helpful is using a weight tape on a regular basis to keep track, as looks can be deceiving when they have their fall/winter/spring coat! Weight tapes aren't all that accurate in getting the actual weight of a mini, but what they can do is give you a comparison. If he's gaining, the numbers are going to go up, even if they aren't his actual weight. If I pull the tape pretty tight, the fur doesn't influence the number much, if at all.

It is hard to tell in your photo, but I do think he looks somewhat overweight, but not dangerously so. Going into winter, this usually isn't a bad thing, unless he has a history of laminitis or metabolic disorder which could put him at risk for laminitis.

 

[Miniv]

Check his neck for how fatty it is....That may help with your decision regarding pasture time. You always want to make changes cautiously, gradually and with winter coming on, I wouldn't do a whole lot of changes. Absolutely NO Grain, just mineral block/supplements. Focus on his feet first, as someone else already suggested.

 

[Aidansmama]

He is 34 in on the nose but once we get his high heels to a proper length he might lose another quarter to a half. My weight tape is MIA but he was 51 in around at the girth, I couldn't find a conversion online for inches to weight so could someone help me with that? The main concern with his weight is that he did founder this summer and his neck is very crested. It is hard to see in the picture but it is very thick and lumpy, he also has random fat deposits along his shoulders and girth. He is very sweet and I would like to drive him this spring when his feet are fully healed up. Currently he on the same schedule as my Sr full size gelding who is also over weight. They have full access to a mineral and salt block and are out on the pasture 8 hours at a time which he seems to be okay with. When I first got him I let him out full time and have slowly taken him down to 8 hours over the past month.

 

[AnnaC]

It does sound as though you are on the right track with him, especially as he has had laminitis in the past (was it laminitis or has he actually foundered? They are 'different' and require different management to an extent). What are you feeding him when he is not at grass?

 

[Annabellarose]

I am not going to add anything useful (ha!), just wanted to say, "Squee! He's cute!" I really like his color (especially with that mane).

 

[Aidansmama]

Sorry I meant he had laminitis, there was no rotation of his coffin bone. I feed my full size horses an alfalfa/grass mix but I know that would be too much for this guy so I picked up some straight timothy grass for him. Any idea of what he should weigh? Or how many pounds of hay he should be eating a day?

 

[chandab]

How much he should weigh will depend on his build, but my best guess is maybe around 300# (or a bit lighter depending on build). You'll have to get your hands on him and feel his ribs and backbone and hips and see just how much bone you can or can't feel. [You shouldn't be able to see it, but should be able to feel the ribs and hips under the skin.]

I have a chunky 32.5" mare that weighs like 320#, and then my 35.75" stallion weighs 300#. Most of the rest of my mares are 36-38" tall and weigh 375-390#.

There is a formula and a chart in the LB info pages for guestimating weight: http://www.lilbeginnings.com/info/misc/

 

[targetsmom]

The best weight conversion I know of is right here on the Lil Beginnings Main Information pages at: http://www.lilbeginnings.com/info/misc/. Scroll down about half way and find 2 different conversion charts/formulas. A regular weight tape for a full size horse will not be very accurate. Of course, a scale would be best but few of us have access to those.

If he has a heavy crest and fat deposits, to me that changes things, as those are risk factors for founder, as is previous founder. He could well be insulin resistant, but you can just treat him as if he is. That would mean a low carb diet, which is basically what is already suggested. Our insulin resistant mare gets NO grass - she is on a dry lot with tested low starch hay and grain. The grain is because she is an all-around performance horse and needs it for energy. She is also on Remission, which is a supplement of Magnesium and Chromium to help prevent founder.

Having had a horse 50 years ago with a heavy crest that foundered repeatedly even on grass (we knew a lot less in those days), I would urge you to manage this horse's diet even if he doesn't look that obese. Once you find his weight, I would shoot for feeding grass hay (low starch if you can find it, or just soak -not wet - but SOAK - it) at about 1.5% of his body weight. And of course get his feet tended to. Good luck!

 

[Aidansmama]

Thanks everyone! He is on a 4 week trim schedule since we took off as much as we could without soring him up. My farrier said it shouldn't take too long before he is back to normal. At least his feet were not curling just crazy long I should have taken a picture on the first day for a before/after.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

He's lucky to have found you, I hope he goes on OK. I agree that the added info changes everything- I would have him tested for IR if it is not going to cost too much.

 

[fourluckyhorseshoes]

In addition to starting an exercise program I would put him in a stall with just a little bit of hay for overnight.

*** I just re-read the article and the safest time to graze is 6-9 AM.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here is a copy of the article written by Woodside Equine Vet in Ashland, VA

When to Graze your Carb-Conscious Horse?
As many of you fellow horse-owners know, deciding when to turn out your mild-to-moderately overweight, insulin-resistant, Cushinoid (have equine Cushing’s Disease), or other wise “at-risk” horse, is a timely and weighty decision. I hope this short article with general grazing guidelines will help you. When talking about grazing, we often throw around the term “NSC.” NSC stands for non-structural carbohydrates. NSCs are water-soluble sugars and fructans that are accumulated in plants and stored for energy. They can be found in high levels in cool-season grasses and hay made from these grasses. Cool-season grasses like timothy, orchard grass, brome, and ryegrass predominate in horse pastures and hay fields. Horses that are at risk for laminitis, overweight, Cushinoid, or have insulin resistance/equine metabolic syndrome are often considered “carb-conscious” and should minimize their consumption of NSCs. The NSC content of grass can change based on species (orchard grass, vs. timothy, vs. alfalfa, etc.), growth stage, time of day, season, and stress level of the grass. Levels of NSCs are lowest between 3am-10am. NSCs peak in the afternoon and start to decline as the sun goes down. The best time to graze the carb-conscious equine is early morning between 6-9am.
During the day, water and nutrients (such as carbon dioxide) are used by the plant to undergo photosynthesis and produce sugar (NSCs). Photosynthesis is a reaction where carbon dioxide + water + sunlight = sugar in the grass. Normally, the NSC content is higher in the evening after a day of sunlight. Overnight, the plant utilizes the sugar by producing fiber for cell walls and energy. This process is called respiration and is temperature-dependent. If temperatures drop below 40°F, respiration is decreased. So remember how I said to graze your carb-conscious horse from 6-9 am? Well, if the temperature at night was below 40°F, but it was warm and sunny the day before, the NSC content of the grass will still be high in the optimal grazing time due to lack of respiration and utilization of sugar by the plant overnight. A week of nights with freezing temperatures and sunny days can double NSC levels. Photosynthesis requires sunlight, so when it is an overcast day, there will be less photosynthesis and the grass will naturally have a lower NSC content. Plants also have a protective mechanism storing sugar/NSC during times of stress. How does this work? A plant will continue to produce sugar as long as it has water, carbon dioxide, and sunlight. If the plant is stressed by temperature or drought, for example, it will retain its sugar resources for use at a later time. It is a way for the plant to store food in preparation for possible future need. This is why we see lush green grass grow from rain after a drought. This scenario is also true for temperature stress. The sugar in the plant is not utilized when the plant is frozen or frosted. The plant continues to have high NSCs, even when it is brown, until rain or snow leaches out the sugar. Plants cannot utilize the NSC if respiration is not occurring due to cold temperatures. The only time the NSCs will get reabsorbed by the ground is from rain and snow causing moisture and reabsorption from the plant. So, just because your grass is brown (in late summer/fall), does not mean it is safe or low in NSCs.
General guidelines for carb-conscious horses:
 Limit grazing to between 6-9am
 Do not graze (even between 6-9am) after a sunny day with a cold night (temperatures below 40°F).
 It may be ok to allow grazing on an overcast day; the grass will have lower NSCs.
 Avoid grazing grass that is stressed or covered in frost.
 Do not allow grazing after a drought or when lush grass is growing.

 

[Miniv]

I DITTO Chandab ...who posted above. Aim for the 300 lb mark. Also, keep checking fat on his ribs and backbone every week. I also agree with Luckyfourhorseshoes regarding keeping him off any pasture in the morning. Weaning him off ALL pasture is a good idea and then feeding an all grass hay diet.

We just recently caught a welsh pony mare early with laminitis who was on pasture. Put her on a soft ground dry lot with only grass hay and a salt/mineral block.... We gave her banimine for a couple of days and weaned her off that using "BL Pellets". It's been almost two weeks, but she's no longer walking on egg shells....moving normally. We're THRILLED to have her come up to the gate in a fast walk at feeding time! But realize she's never going to be able to go out to pasture again.....which is sad. She has her buddies out there....(Yesterday we brought in one of them to keep her company for a day or two.)

 

[Helicopter]

Fourluckyhorseshoes, you and I are obviously reading different books. My understanding is that grass is safest between 3am and 10am. What's a girl to do??