OMG !! This makes me sick

[minimom1]

I am sorry ... I did not mean to start a slaughter debate.

I was simply just upset thinking about the poor weanlings

I thought of my little 7 week old colt and pictured him being in that situation and it just broke my heart.

I am not opposed to slaughter as in todays world with all the breeders it seems to be a necasary evil, I AM however opposed to people breeding year after year and dumping their babies at the auction to go lord know's where. I see MANY QH breeders out here breed 10 to 100 babies a year and try to sell them for top dollar when they have not even been halter broke and the dam and sire have never been broke ... GUESS where most of them end up ... but they continue to breed year after year.

I was in no way insinuating the meat man / kill buyer was the bad guy in all of this .... just thought the whole situation was sad and wanted to say something about it.

 

[JWC sr.]

GypsyMoon,

All I can say is that you proved up some of the very points I was making. And on this issue should it ever come to a vote you and I would obviously be offsetting each others vote. That to me is fine, but many of your facts are not as complete as you have portrayed them. Such as that even with the best efforts of all of the best rescues ( and they do an awesome job in most cases) in the country there is no way for them to re-home the numerous horses produced every year and the situation is getting worse down here in Texas where I have at least somewhat of a handle on the goings on of many of the rescues locally and make regular donations to them. Something must be done with those 100,000+/- horses per year other than sending them to a rescue.

While I do believe that you and I could agree that the over breeding of horses in general is the main culprit in this equation, that is not going to stop in the real world and therefore we must in my opinion find a way to either place these unwanted horses in new life jobs or see them put down to prevent the rampant abuse and neglect that is becoming so rampant here in our country.

While it is indeed unfortunate that some really all time great horses have ended up at killing plants, what would you have people do with horses that have blown out legs are infertile etc etc. Facts is the horses in my opinion deserve to be given a till death retirement home, but that is just me. I personally want to see them either re-homed or put down with as much dignity and respect as we can muster for them. In many folks minds & opinion in the equine industry's, they will not feed or care for a non-productive animal period. For those animals, we must give them a way out of a neglected or abused future that many of them would end up in.

We have here on our farm a retired cutting horse age 27 and a retired barrel horse age 47. They worked for Cindy and our kids for many years and will be here till they die of old age with all the support we can muster for them as far as vets etc. But we have the financial ability and space to make that kind of choice for our retired horses. Some folks just do not have that as an option for any number of reasons.

It would have been much more effective to put into place regulations on the care, transportation, holding, processing and uses of unwanted horses, here in this country, I think that approach would have alleviated a lot of problems that are still happening today under worse conditions than ever before.

But then again that is my opinion and not one others may support. Bottom line all I can personally do is breed only those horses I feel comfortable will have life homes that will make them cherished members of peoples homes and family's. And continue to geld all of the colts we produce except for the very few we consider to be stallion material.

Minimom, sorry your thread has gotten highjacked like it has and I promise not to make any further comments along these lines.

 

[GypsyMoonMinis]

a pneumatic gun IS a captive bolt... but there are two types, pneumatic and cartridge. the pneumatic uses air charges and the cartridge uses blanks to fire the bolt into the brain, preferrably through the thinnest part of the animals skull. There is one place to shoot. A horse, whos anatomy is entirely differant than that of a sheep, pig or cow will be throwing thier head around in search of a way to escape the confines of the chute. The stunner has to be very good at his job to hit a moving target quickly and cleanly. Not only that, but the bolt guns, whether they are pnuematic or cartridge based, require a lot of maintenance, such as seal replacement at regular intervals.

JWC, I totally agree that rescues are being over run. And I do also agree that they should be put down if a responible home can't be found for them. However, I do not think slaughter is the answer. I think they should be euthanized. Some argue that it costs too much, in that case professionals need to make that option available for people of lessor means. Its everyone's responsibility, not just one industry or group over another. We see the same thing with dogs and cats. Thank the gods that horses can't reproduce like cats can!

In a perfect world, we wouldn't be having this conversation and I'd have to go find something else to champion

(im the woman, who as a child would rescue bees out of the water and give a grand funeral if he passed on..)...

My apologies as well minimom. I just hope people realize that just because they are small and cute doesn't mean they are safe from the atrocities of real life.

 

[Minimor]

(Please note, while it is illegal to slaughter a horse under the age of 6 months, many PMU and Nurse mare foals are either clubbed at birth or skinned for leather products)

I'm sorry, but I stopped reading your post when I got to that sentence! With those words, you proved that you really don't know so much about what you are talking about!
Of all the PMU producers I know--and over the years I have met many of them, because this area was PMU central for many years--not a one of them ever clubbed his foals at birth, nor did any of them skin those foals for leather products. It's true that over the years many PMU foals have ended up in feed lots and eventually the slaughter house. Maybe someone, somewhere did club his foals at birth--with all the sick people in the world it's entirely possible there is someone who would do that--but it sure isn't the norm, and never was.

 

[GypsyMoonMinis]

Im very sorry Minimor. I most certainly wouldn't make something like that up. I am thankful that you have met a many good, humane PMU producers. I hope that is the norm. As I stated in my original post, I would be more than happy to pass on my sources of information. I would never expect anyone to take what I , or anyone else, says without first doing thier own research and then coming to thier own conclusion, as we all tend to see and experience things differently than the person next to us. I only recently found out about the Nurse Mare programs... Im still dumb founded!

Now back to Minimom's original topic

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I thought it was a mistake to close the slaughterhouses, now I do not.

It is a simple thing (trust me, we have done it already) to make it illegal to take an animal across a border alive for the purposes of slaughter.

The mistake was not in closing the plants, the mistake was in rushing the bill through and not getting all the dots on the "i's" and crosses on the "t's" first.

I just LOVE it when a kill buyer puts the cute little Mini in a pen and then pumps up the price in order to stop the poor thing going to slaughter!

IT IS A SALES PLOY, and every time you give in to it, you encourage him to do it again, and you encourage people to dump their babies, not just Minis, at auction. Hard though it is, I would call his bluff and tell him "good luck with that, I have rung AC in every county form here to the border and got onto Canada too, so I hope you have a separate stall all padded out for them"

Enforce the laws you have, don't waste any more time (and animals lives) trying to get new ones passed.

The only new law needed at the moment is the "crossing the border" thing, and that will need to be financed.

The fact is, there are not home available for a lot of really good, quality, foals, this year.

So, what are you going to do?

Buy them all?

Cos me, I would, I am afraid, rather go and buy a well priced, top quality foal than a train wreck a BYB has bred and then dumped at an auction for a kill buyer to blackmail someone into spending money on.

Yes, it is hard, life is not easy, and some people are already finding it hard to feed their children.

 

[tagalong]

I'm sorry, but I stopped reading your post when I got to that sentence! With those words, you proved that you really don't know so much about what you are talking about!

Maybe someone, somewhere did club his foals at birth--with all the sick people in the world it's entirely possible there is someone who would do that--but it sure isn't the norm, and never was.

Minimor - that is my issue with al lot of what Gypsy Moon is saying. GM, you are wrong about a lot of your slaughterhouse facts, wrong about PMU foals being clubbed (but it paints such a pretty picture)... and so much more. I understand that the norm is not sensationalist enough - but why spread untruths? That is what PETA often does. They also specialize in sweeping generalizations about things. The more sensationalist the better.

a pneumatic gun IS a captive bolt... but there are two types, pneumatic and cartridge. the pneumatic uses air charges and the cartridge uses blanks to fire the bolt into the brain, preferrably through the thinnest part of the animals skull. There is one place to shoot. A horse, whos anatomy is entirely differant than that of a sheep, pig or cow will be throwing thier head around in search of a way to escape the confines of the chute.

Once again - you know exactly what goes on - having never seen it.

I never said the pneumatic gun was not a captive bolt - please read again before rushing to correct me. I said it was not the regular old style one. Have you seen any of this in person? No. Your research seems to be a bit sketchy in some areas.

Horses came into the chute, the door closed behind them and they did not have a chance to:"throw their heads around and search for a way out". They had mere seconds to wonder what was going on. The guy with the gun was above them (so had a clear target), was a professional and knew what he was doing. As I said earlier, if he thought for a nanosecond that the first shot did not work, he IMMEDIATELY gave that horse another shot. And you also imply that the pneumatic guns are not properly maintained - trust me, a large plant takes good care of its equipment - and yet you implied otherwise.

Just a quick PMU perspective - as I fear that your research there will be a bit off as well... the barns were spotless. The mares did not have harness marks/burns. They could visit with their neighbours and great care was taken to make sure everyone had compatible neighbours, They could lay down in deep bedding and sleep comfortably. They were turned oit regularly and would bang on the gate to come back in after an hour or so. Poor dumb mares did not realize they were being abused, I guess. Water was NOT rationed. The vet I helped would drop in unannounced at PMU ranches in the area to check them out and we often noted that horses in the neighbouring fields were thin and miserable, sheltering from the snow behind the round straw bales that they had for feed. They had it far worse than the PMU horses. They were well cared for. Now, I am sure that in the past, some places were not up to the standard of the ten or so barns we visited - but the senationalist stuff is what is presented at the norm. Like the vision of sweet cuddly newborn foals being clubbed over the head for leather products. It makes for great outrage and PR - even if it is not true...

I was simply just upset thinking about the poor weanlings I thought of my little 7 week old colt and pictured him being in that situation and it just broke my heart.

minimom

- I guarantee those weanlings did not go up the chute into the plant... no worries there. They likely were resold and I hope they found an actual home - where someone will not just toss them aside without caring about what would happen to them... like their original owners did.

Unfortunately, any thread about this topic is going to turn into a debate....

 

[HGFarm]

Thank you for the truthful info tagalong! A lot of the stuff being told IS sensationalism, and stuff that PETA would glob onto to make the rest of the world think this is really what is going on on a regular basis. And folks get sucked in to the stuff that gets spread as 'all the time', 'normal' and 'everyday'. Some pics that are used for animal abuse ads (and I am NOT saying it doesnt happen here because we sure know it does) are not even taken in the U.S.

Slaughter house workers are not horrible monsters either and I am sure do not take joy in killing animals, but it's a job and puts meat on the table, etc.... And yes, it would be extremely dangerous, and time consuming to deal with thrashing animals. They have a quota to make daily and are not going to deal with all that.

For the mini mules that were 'purchased for bbq', is there proof that that is what really happened to them or was someone joking about it to 'yank someone's chain'??? And I would say that most everyday people do not go to the sale looking for bbq meat in the form of a miniature horse, LOL. I am not saying that there may be a time when something that is sick, old or something may go for slaughter, but on the whole, we dont see it here often either in the Miniature world.

 

[GypsyMoonMinis]

Well, you got me Tagalong. Im a liar and a sensationalist. I have No idea what im talking about. I obviously don't have your extensive knowledge, nor have I personally witnessed the hundreds of actual slaughters that you must have to deem them humane. Sadly, I don't frequent PMU farms either to see the fair and just treatment of the mares there. I mean heck, they can lay down! They stand at the door begging to come back in the barn! Obviously they must be in great condition. Im sure that mentally they are at peace as well, since all horses do every day is stand around anyways, right? I have mistakenly considered equine to be something more than a business commodity. How silly of me! Forgive me, I must be mistaken that the meat is safe to eat, that no one would dream of harming a foal or weaning it too early and god forbid should they ever use a PMU or Nurse mare foal by-product for a delicacy or expensive shoe or belt (shell cordovan ring a bell?) I bow to your superior knowledge, your vast amount of personal experience. I think Ill go find some bees to save or maybe Ill make me a sign for global warming...Ignorance is bliss they say.

This is just a partial list...

Some video

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ke2spBlChxA




Slaughter, PMU, Nurse Mares (This list includes Pro and Anti sentiments, as well as Unbiased documentation, including national statistics… my apologies for not being better organized)

http://www.himfr.com...Full_Brush_Set/

http://www.himfr.com/buy-pony_skin/

http://www.alibaba.c..._Corbusier.html

http://www.bridleand...ter_11895.shtml

http://www.tinyhoovesrescue.org/

http://dreamequineth...mare_foals.html

http://horween.com/index.php/leathers/

http://www.bensilver...uide_link4.html

http://www.answers.com/topic/cordovan

http://www.articleal...1580149_54.html

http://www.greenhorn.../nursemare.html

http://www.equinevoi...g/ponyskins.php

http://www.purethoug...e.com/index.php

http://www.lastchancecorral.org/home

http://www.whitebird...com/?page_id=71

http://www.thepetiti...of-nurse-mares/

http://equisearch.co...2107/index.aspx

http://www.equisearc...erissue_112107/

http://www.equisearc...scue/eqpmu1986/

http://www.nal.usda..../horses/pmu.htm

http://www.ag.ndsu.n...97/ar21197c.htm

http://www.nal.usda..../horses/web.htm

http://www.nal.usda....orses/Mills.htm

http://www.defra.gov...orses/index.htm

http://www.nal.usda....orses/Stull.htm

http://www.horsecoun...aleconomics.php

http://www.horsecoun...prop_act111.php

http://www.horsecoun...ueltyAct111.php

http://www.unwantedh...anasia_AAEP.pdf

http://www.unwantedh...0Horse_AAEP.pdf

http://www.unwantedh...nFarms_AAEP.pdf

http://www.unwantedh...msPape_AAEP.pdf

http://www.thehorse....ID=16882&src=VW

http://www.cyberfoal.com/

http://www.thehorse....e.aspx?ID=16278

http://legis.state.s...ile=SCR4ENR.htm

http://www.leg.state...FILE/139_01.pdf

http://premarin.org/#

http://www.thecoasta...hormone_therapy

http://www.projectce...ompany-profits/

http://kirk.house.go...3178&Itemid=128

http://www.canfact.ca/

http://www.awfc.ca/english/index.htm

http://www.aaep.org/...resentation.pdf

http://www.aaep.org/...mmit%202005.pdf

http://www.aaep.org/...=Current_Issues

http://www.tehachapi....com/node/10504

http://www.nal.usda....n1/10n1luba.htm

http://www.naeric.or...ut.asp?strNav=4

http://www.animallaw...s/stsphorse.htm

http://www.ryerss.com/

http://www.awionline...12919/pid/12919

http://www.awionline...11627/pid/11627

http://www.homesforhorses.org/myth.php

http://www.thehorse....le.aspx?ID=7447

http://www.horsegaze...ept/Canada.html

http://www.canyoncre...hat_is_PMU.html

http://www.premarin.org/index.html

http://vetsforequine...org/support.php

http://vetsforequine...g/usda_foia.php

http://vetsforequine...e.org/facts.php

http://vetsforequine...medications.php

http://www.inspectio...7/annexee.shtml

http://www.awionline...ntAction/i/7002

http://vetsforequine..._WhitePaper.pdf

http://www.ahdf.org/foals.htm

http://www.ahdf.org/slaughter.htm

http://www.hsus.org/...t_premarin.html

http://www.springhil...e.com/pmu.shtml

http://www.brokenear...captivebolt.htm

http://www.humanesoc...ter_011210.html

http://www.equinewel...s_2006-2009.pdf

http://unnecessaryev...ted-horses.html

http://tuesdayshorse...-mare-industry/

http://www.equestria...ding-02-09.html

http://www.producer.....aspx?aid=25441

http://www.horsesint...l.aspx?id=10142

http://www.examiner....er-consequences

http://www.equineweb...0703063728.html

http://www.thehorse....le.aspx?ID=7592

http://tuesdayshorse...orse-slaughter/

http://equineprotect...ter/collect.htm

http://www.slate.com/id/2212233/

http://www.gov.mb.ca...ngcosts2002.pdf

http://www.horsechan...reed-25593.aspx

http://www.uan.org/index.cfm?navId=75

http://www.animallaw...ter/article/541

http://www.animallaw...ter/article/541

http://www.animallaw...er/article/1432

http://www.animallaw...er/article/1162

http://hhhmhr.org/index.php/where.html

http://www.guidehors...se_adoption.htm

 

[gimp]

sigh

 

[Minimor]

gypsymoon--do you have any idea how many of those sites are the work of PETA or PETA-related organizations? Are you aware that PETA and people associated with PETA or other animal rights groups have--on multiple occasions--trespassed on private property to enter barns and make videos which DO NOT show the true conditions in those barns? Owners have entered their barns to find that mares have been tied up very short--way too short--and other things have been rigged so that they look as bad as possible--and they know that someone has been in there rigging things this way in order to make a propaganda video which is meant to show the world how awful the PMU barns are. It is amazing how many people want to believe this crap, and will not believe the truth.

Years ago, yes, there were barns which were less than pleasant for the mares. But that was a long time ago. For many years now there have been inspectors who check on the mares regularly--and they do not turn a blind eye if they see any mares that are not being well treated. Producers make sure their mares do not get sores from the harness--because if an inspector finds a mare that has a sore & is on the line, that producer's contract is GONE. Just that fast--GONE.

Are you aware that the guidelines are very strict? I know someone that built a new barn. Built it to spec, including the ceiling height. Then he poured the floor. That floor caused the ceiling to be 3 inches too low. 3 inches! It was still some 9 ft high, but because it was 3" lower than it was required to be, he had to raise that ceiling those 3 inches before he could use the barn. It was totally stupid--because 3" too low didn't mean the mares had insufficient head room, not by any means. But rules are rules, and they must be followed.

Water is not restricted for the mares, and hasn't been in a long time. The mares are in good shape, pretty much all across the board. Years back, not always, but that was YEARS back. You haven't been in any PMU barns to see for yourself, and you won't believe those who have been in the barns....yet you'll believe every propaganda video you see on the internet?

Do you know how many PMU foals are registered purebreds of various breeds? Do you know how many of those foals get sold to real owners, directly off the lines...how many of them never go to a meat auction....how many of them never go to a feedlot or a slaughter house? Do you know how many of them are being shown, in all sorts of events & in all disciplines? How many of them are winning in those competitions? I don't know the exact numbers, but they're way higher than the animal rights people would have you believe. And such has been the case for many many years now.

 

[minimom1]

I happen to own and show a 5 yr old QH that came from a PMU farm in Alberta. He is registered, well bred, good confo and a wonderful horse.

 

[luvsminis]

Oh, how awful is that. I won't be able to sleep tonight for sure. I wish you could go get them. Would the sale barn have a number you could call, and they might give you the number of the guy who bought them. Those poor little babies. Why would they do that anyway? I hope you can find them in time.

 

[frostedpineminis]

HI minimom I talked to a few people and have an idea of what buyer it was, I was also told that the price was way too high for them to go to slaughter as those are usually the price that they pay for adult quarter horses, so rest assured they are going to a new home!!! Also as for the mile long story I would like to point out that it is illegal to haul horses in a double decker and as for all the death and dehydration I will say... If you know how long it takes to raise a full grown horse you wouldnt say that they leave the foals behind or leave them down in the trailer, they dont make any money off of a dead horse. Foals are left with their mother and put in the pasture with the mares and foals that they already have and I have been in a truck that hauled horses, one went down and we pulled over at the next stop to unload everyone and get her up. Also if they are long hauled they have to stop for water every so many miles or hours, truckers run logs so they could not just keep driving. Minimom I hope that I found what you are looking for and like the others I am sorry that your stream got turned into a ethics talk, It just gets me that people are alright with the slaughter of cows but not horses, I am for rescues of the horses that are good but there are alot of horses out there that are no good. I work in the profession of animal health and dont get me wrong there is nothing wrong with euthanasia, but if everybody euthanized everything that was not wanted, what would you do with all the carcasses, why not let somebody else eat it if they want, horse sellers have to sign a paper as to what the animal recieved for drugs and the animal is in the feedlot for a minimum of 6 months after arriving just like for cattle, and horses dont recieve hormones so what is more dangerous to eat... anything made in factories and plants has the potential of drugs and hormones and pesticides, even vegetation.

 

[tagalong]

Well, you got me Tagalong. Im a liar and a sensationalist.

I never said you were a liar - I did say you favoured the sensationalist angle and seemed to have bought into a lot of the common spin that is out there.

I have No idea what im talking about. I obviously don't have your extensive knowledge, nor have I personally witnessed the hundreds of actual slaughters that you must have to deem them humane.

And what exactly does your condescending, scathing sarcasm help with here? I never said I saw hundreds of slaughters (but my friend who worked there did - so I guess he would know what he was talking about) - but YOU have never seen ONE. Not a video. Personally. ONE. And yet you feel free to sneer at anything I say.

Sadly, I don't frequent PMU farms either to see the fair and just treatment of the mares there. I mean heck, they can lay down! They stand at the door begging to come back in the barn! Obviously they must be in great condition. Im sure that mentally they are at peace as well, since all horses do every day is stand around anyways, right?

And you continue sneering - every word dripping with condescension. I merely addressed the usual points about PMU barns that that are always howled about. You know - the mares are suffering, stressed, can't lay down, have harness burns, never get out, are unhealthy and so on. But once again, you know better - and see fit to sneer at personal experiences and eyewitness accounts. Those mares DID bang at the gate to come back in...

How many PMU barns have you spent time at in the past? Were you assisting the vet carrying out the inspections, treating mares etc.? Did you see the conditions? Did you see the mares? Did you note that they were healthy, not stressed etc.?

Did you know that any mares that made it clear they could not handle that lifestyle wre not put on the line?

Did you know that the biggest nonsense of water beng witheld - was not true?

Did you know that a stressed, unhealthy mare will not catch in foal? Did you know that average conception rate for those farms was over 90%? Better than many Thoroughbred farms?

Did you know any of that? DId you know that in the fall there are big productions sales in Alberta for PMU foals? Registered foals? And that many are sold through those sales? We attended many of those sales over the years - did you? I only wish that all the foals sold through those sales...

DId you know that PMU mares are turned out full time to pasture from about the end of March through to September/October? Quick - how many high level show horses in many breeds enjoy that privilege?

Gypsy Moon - sometimes what you are told is the norm - simply isn't. And sneering at others will not make it so. This is why I always hesitate to mention my personal experiences - as someone who "knows better" always reacts just as you have.

I bow to your superior knowledge, your vast amount of personal experience. I think Ill go find some bees to save or maybe Ill make me a sign for global warming...Ignorance is bliss they say.

Arrogance seems to be bliss as well. Perhaps you should consider the fact that others are allowed to have different opinions than you - and that they might actually have FACTS to share that should not be discarded simply because they may not agree with the "facts" you have decided are the only ones that should ever be considered.

I have lived, breathed and worked for horses in the horse industry (and yes, it is an industry) for more than 25 years - 24/7/52... in a variety of disciplines and breeds. I have made it a point to see all sides of every contentious issue for myself. Everything I have related to you is 100% true - and yet you see fit to use YouTube videos as "evidence" that ALL slaughterhouses or PMU barns or whatever all work the same way. You "know" this. Your research seems to prefer and embrace the sensationalist aspect of everything and you seem to be suggesting that I am a liar.... and that does not help the horses in any way.

Oh well - soon you will have one less thing to worry about. Chemical replacements for Premarin are gaining ground and in time, the PMU barns will be gone...

As an aside, when I was at the agriculture college many years ago... we trimmed the feet of sleek, dappled Percheron mares as part of our farrier course. Those mares came from a PMU barn... and were well-adjusted, calm, well-mannered and easy to deal with. If only all the other horses we dealt with were like that. They happily loaded back into their trailer to go back to the PMU ranch... and no, they were not a figment of my imagination.

I have been in a truck that hauled horses, one went down and we pulled over at the next stop to unload everyone and get her up. Also if they are long hauled they have to stop for water every so many miles or hours, truckers run logs so they could not just keep driving.

frostedpineminis - I am sure that you imagined all that as well..

Sorry for the long-winded post, everyone.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Playing devils advocate, here, a few points spring to mind.

Why are nurse mare farms even legal?

They want to breed form a valuable TB mare they can do embryo transplant, if she is that valuable. If she is not, why make it easy for even more animal abuse?

On the other hand....do you not know how milk is manufactured?

On a day to day basis, cows are kept permanently pregnant and have their calves removed after they have taken the colostrum- where, pray, is the uproar?

And all this so that humans can consume something for which they have absolutely NO need?????

PMU....why is this still happening?

There has been a synthetic HRT on the market for donkeys years...USE IT!!!

 

[disneyhorse]

For the mini mules that were 'purchased for bbq', is there proof that that is what really happened to them or was someone joking about it to 'yank someone's chain'??? And I would say that most everyday people do not go to the sale looking for bbq meat in the form of a miniature horse, LOL. I am not saying that there may be a time when something that is sick, old or something may go for slaughter, but on the whole, we dont see it here often either in the Miniature world.

I was sitting right next to the Hispanic family that was discussing if they should just get one to barbecue, or if they could handle two. At first I wasn't sure what I was hearing, but they had a discussion and then bid on the second one. They were discussing inviting others over to share the following weekend. I am sure there are butchers around that handle all sorts of animals, whether you buy a cow or ??? but $30 for a whole animal is probably pretty cheap meat.

Andrea

P.S. I want to add that I am a vegetarian, and I don't see any difference between eating a cow or a miniature mule. I don't see that anyone who eats meat can be anti-slaughter. What makes an equine more special than any other type of animal? Does it look and act "cuter"? Therefore, I don't see horse slaughter as the biggest issue. I think if the world went vegetarian, that would cut down on BILLIONS more animal lives being spared. Production farms of cattle and pigs and chickens and such wouldn't have such a huge output of slaughtered animals. So that's the big picture for me.

 

[Minimor]

Now that you mention it Andrea, I remember being told a long time ago by a guy that did some buying of meat horses that some people really like mules for eating, because their meat is more marbled.

I couldn't eat a mule any easier than I could eat a horse and I definitely would prefer to not hear anyone discussing which or how many mules or horses they should buy for their neighborhood BBQ next weekend. ick.

 

[tagalong]

They want to breed form a valuable TB mare they can do embryo transplant, if she is that valuable.

No, they can't. All Thoroughbreds must be live cover as per The Jockey Club. No embryo transplants allowed. So Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta will be bred and carry their own foals...

BTW - there are Nurse Mare networks during foaling season for mares who have lost their foals and might adopt an orphaned or rejected foal..

PMU....why is this still happening?There has been a synthetic HRT on the market for donkeys years...USE IT!!!

Which was why I said that the PMU barns are slowly being phased out... and in due course, will not exist. Will that make a huge dent in the amount of horses going to slaughter? No.

I never said that I am a huge fan of slaughter or the PMU industry - but I think that we need to stick to facts and not speak in sweeping generalizations.... or support organizations like PETA that are great at pointing fingers and screaming foul to make headlines - and yet often do not hold up to inspection.

Like the PETA twits who released thousands of mink from a fur farm north of here years ago... they thought that all those mink would be free, free, free! Mink who did not know how to hunt and were clueless about the world. They died by the hundreds on the highway, were torn apart by dogs, fought each other, starved etc. No one cared that those mink would suffer out in the wild - they only knew that they had done a good thing and liberated them!

Just wait until they decide that it is beyond cruel for minis to be pulling us around in carts...

 

[shorthorsemom]

Quote...."On the other hand....do you not know how milk is manufactured?

On a day to day basis, cows are kept permanently pregnant and have their calves removed after they have taken the colostrum- where, pray, is the uproar?

And all this so that humans can consume something for which they have absolutely NO need?????"

Did you know dairy farmers can buy sex selected semen? They raise their own heifers. Some allow the babies to nurse for several weeks before separating them from their mothers even if it means less milk in the tank, and then they hand feed them bottles until they can drink from a bucket. They hand raise their babies carefully as they are the next generation of milk cows. One baby a year and keep the calf. Stressed cows don't make much milk and there are farmers dedicated to making their cows very comfortable.

It has been a harsh couple of years for the american dairy farmer, please understand there are still small family farms out there that treat every animal as an individual, provide a kind existance and call each cow by name.

Well I guess this thread has just about made everybody defensive about something, please don't fry me.

As far as those mini babies go, I think it is cool how many members wanted to jump in to try to do something. very cool indeed.