Opinions Wanted Pros/Cons Breeding my oldest mare

[StarRidgeAcres]

I have no doubt this is touchy for many. I'm not saying someone else should or shouldn't, I'm just wanting opinions from others on whether or not I should.

Here's my situation:

I have a very special mare. Her name is Flying W Farms Blue Starlite, aka Puddin, 34" smokey black. She is a daughter of Blue Boy which obviously there aren't too many of that are still reproducing. She is coming 27 years of age this spring.

From what I've been able to gather, she's had at least 14 registered foals in her life. There may be more that we'll never know of. Her last foal was a perlino filly in 2007 named Star Ridge Acres Lily Blue Too. She was pasture bred for that breeding season. After she foaled Lily I sent them away to be bred to Laura Tennill's stallion Ten Ls Echos Captive Spirit. Puddin' was examined by Laura's vet and determined to be safely bred again. (ETA: Meaning it was OK to try and breed her.) Like her outside, her insides didn't seem as old as her years.

Well, Puddin' didn't take and it certainly wasn't the stallions fault. Even though there's a considerable height difference, Laura and Joe had a special place to stand them that brought Spirit up enough to reach just fine.

So, fast forward to the summer of 2008. I tried hand breeding her to Corona. We tried it for two cycles, but I really don't know that he could adequately reach her. She didn't take.

Now that the spring of '09 is quickly approaching and I now have my dream stallion - my very own Spirit

- I'm wondering about the possibility of breeding Puddin' to him. A couple of weeks ago I had Puddin' examined. The vet did an internal and also blood work. Everything seemed normal. Vet did say Puddin's cervix was a bit "loose." That's actually my interpretation of what she said. It sounded like it wasn't uncommon for an older mare to be this way. And yes, it could make it more difficult for her to maintain a pregnancy.

So, I'm sure there are folks who are of the opinion that any mare of that age should not be bred. I'm open to hearing your reasons why. There may also be folks who say go for it; if she's meant to get pregnant she will. I'm interested in any opinion - positive or not. I haven't made up my mind on this and would really appreciate anyone who's willing to share either their experiences or their opinion.

This is a pic of Puddin taken in 2007 about 5 weeks before she foaled Lily.

Not the most flattering pic, but you can see her body and tone.

This is a pic of her '07 foal Lily (now owned by Shery of Irish Hills Farm).

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[Joanne]

I had one her age and I retired her last year. I think she has paid her dues. She had her last foal at 22 after a few years open.

I would just let her cruse and be a grandmother to the foals. Some of these old mares are worth their weight in gold with the foals.

 

[Marty]

Very early on in minis, I had a mare I thought I wanted to breed.

Two stallions later she never did take. The vets did repro exams and couldn't really find a reason why not. I was very disappointed when she kept coming up empty.

Then thinking about it later on and a whole lot of soul searching, I came to the conclusion that if it wasn't meant to be, it wasn't meant to be, and there must be reason for it. We never went down that road again with her.

Sometimes I think we turn ourselves upside down and inside out for things that just need to be left alone.

 

[End Level Farms]

I have two opinions here. (Yes I know CRAZY)

The first is your vet has found that there is no reason that she can not safely catch, carry and deliver a foal. He or she is an expert and knows much much more about the animal than any of us. So as far as any reasons from the vet I would say go for it. Her bloodlines and her conformation look awesome. And as long as you maintain her vitamins and minerals she should produce an absolutely stunning foal for you.

My other opinion is strictly my own. And this is that the older mares deserve a break. My old mare who is 18 is only going to be bred on possibly two more times. Now I have lots of people and the vet stating that she could easily and safely be able to carry on having foals into her late twenties if not more. She loves being a broodmare. But I would rather have her with me than loosing her foaling a foal.

So theres two sides of the coin from me.

My only question to help you decide is can you live with out her? Or would you rather her give you something to possibly remember her by?

 

[Jill]

Parmela --

I'm hardly an expert, but if she maintained her weight well while nursing Lily, I would go on and try and breed her

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Jill

 

[kaykay]

I have never bred mares in this age range but have always been told that if you let them go open a couple years its very hard to get them producing again. Its like the whole cycle shuts down.

If it was ME i would just let her be a grandma.

 

[Debby - LB]

Hi, she is a very nice fit looking mare with good bloodlines BUT given her particular history I do not think that I would try breeding her anymore.

Your Vet. may not have discussed this with you, but you have to realize that mares are born with all the oocytes they will ever have. She may actually have nothing left to give you in that department. Even though all your testing looked good she may not conceive because old oocytes (if she has any) are unable to undergo fertilization and if they do they might develop abnormally - so at her age with her history......

With her exam pointing out that she lacks a tight cervix seal I wouldn't feel the need to take the chance since there is a higher risk of bacterial infections associated.

I think I would retire her to a life of relaxation, and if she loves the foals let her be your babysitter and teacher at weaning time.

 

[Genie]

I am definitely not providing an expert opinion but I have heard all the things I am reading on the various replies.

_if they are in good condition and seem younger than their years, people will go ahead.

_if they miss a couple of years it's hard to get them to catch

_let nature take it's course, as in, pasture her with the other mares and stallion

_what would happen in the wild (that's my husband's favorite response)

Personally I would go by the vet's opinion.

Many horses have foaling difficulties no matter what age. It sounds like she has had a good previous history of foaling.

It's a tough decision and I know the mare is your first concern and not the possibilty of the special foal she may have.

 

[MountainMeadows]

Parmela, I understand your predicament -- Cleo is 27 this year and has produced 3 National/World Grand Champions so I consider her pretty special. She is in excellent health, no grey hairs, prances around like she is 10 and is teasing the stallions non-stop when she is in heat. Her last foal was a couple of years ago and it did take a toll on her, she carried well, but did tire out more easily than she had in the past, and at delivery it was a difficult birth, and she didn't bounce back like she normally does. I wonder if I had treated her a little more "special" if it might not have made a difference -- brought her in earlier than the others, maybe some special feed and extra vitamins, etc, etc, etc -- in otherwords a lot of TLC. She is doing just great now and would dealy LOVE to be a mommy again and I have wondered about whether or not I could maintain her thru another pregnancy safely -- soo, I guess I understand your position, just my rambling thoughts. If you do decide to try to breed her (and it might be difficult to get her in foal -- likely would be a candidate for reguamate at her age), I would recommend having a "special schedule" for her so that it doesn't take too much out of her.

For me, I have many Cleo daughters so it was/is not a pressing desire to have another to carry on her line, but if you don't I can understand wanting the emotional attachment of a fillly to carry on with.

Stac

 

[Candice]

Wow! What an awesome little mare. (huge fan of the Blue Boy lines here). I'm thinking, you know your mare best and you know what she can and cannot tolerate. If you believe she might settle and carry this foal to term and deliver safely then why not?? I would be curious about the amount of scar tissue present in her uterus after so many foals. That could be a major reason she is not settling.

Good luck with whatever decision you make. I have a Blue Boy granddaughter here with arthritis. She is my favorite mare and this is her forever home. Doc cleared her for breeding this year, but like you I am torn. She has good days and bad days and I'm still back and forth on whether or not I'll breed her this year. Out of all of my mares I believe her to be the absolute best cross with our new stallion, but I still worry about her and her comfort levels and will very shortly make up my mind one way or the other. We have no foals coming this year so all of our mares are open. I don't know how long you've been wrestling with your decision, but I've been working mine over in my mind since her 07 pregnancy which went very smoothly and she had a very easy delivery. Keeping up with her foal though was another story.

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

I had an older mare that was "loose" too and my vet had me put her on regumate for a while to make her tighten up, at least that is what I assume it did since it makes them think they are bred? i also know a mare that is close to 30 and she is still foaling with no problem and I must say that yours isnt showing her age near as much as this other mare. With her breeding I would definitely want to breed her again and she isnt a super small mare so there is less to worry about there. Obviously it is entirely up to you but i would breed her. If you are worried about something going wrong in pregnancy then keep in mind things can go wrong just in general life and wouldn't you rather have something to show for it? Plus it sounds like she would still want to be a mommy so I would think that is incentive enough and let her try to have one last foal. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[ohmt]

Here we are also big fans of the "what would happen if they were out in the wild" question. She looks AWESOME and you didn't have a problem keeping weight on her with her 07' filly, I'd go ahead and pasture her with your beautiful boy. If it's meant to happen, it will. Of course there are risks with older mares, and many times they don't conceive, but i think she may surprise you. Older mares do like to skip a year or two (at least mine do) so I wouldn't just assume that she's all done...at the same time i wouldn't get my hopes up that she isn't. We had a 25 yr. old mare that we bred once...had to get a little help from the vet to get her into a regular heat cycle, but we pastured her and ended up with a gorgeous little filly without any complications.

Good luck...you know her best and it seems as though you always have the best interests of your horses at heart...i think you'll make the right decision

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Thank you all for your thoughtful, non-judgemental responses. I expected this to be a touchy topic and for there to be strong opinions on both sides.

I would just let her cruse and be a grandmother to the foals. Some of these old mares are worth their weight in gold with the foals.

Hi Joanne,

Unfortunately, Puddin' isn't very good with foals other than hers.

She is crazy possesive of her own babies and has no use for others.

Very early on in minis, I had a mare I thought I wanted to breed. Two stallions later she never did take. The vets did repro exams and couldn't really find a reason why not. I was very disappointed when she kept coming up empty.

Then thinking about it later on and a whole lot of soul searching, I came to the conclusion that if it wasn't meant to be, it wasn't meant to be, and there must be reason for it. We never went down that road again with her.

Sometimes I think we turn ourselves upside down and inside out for things that just need to be left alone.

Marty,

Maybe I'm having a senior moment, but I don't understand what you're saying.

I'm sure it's just me!!

Well, I haven't made up my mind yet and I still have time to think on it. She was so attached to her last foal, Lily, that it was almost impossible to get her to even have any interest in a stallion because she was so concerned about Lily. It took me well over a year to wean Lily from her. Lily didn't care one way or the other, but even weeks after being in totally different pastures, Puddin' would still be running the fenceline screaming her head off for Lily. It was very sad. And that was actually a factor in me deciding to sell Lily was to get her away from Puddin' once and for all. And it was the RIGHT decision because Puddin' as been so relaxed since Lily left. I've actually seen her running and playing, kicking her heels up and just lazing around in the sun. Prior to Lily leaving she would never have allowed herself to just relax and enjoy a pretty day. And she's started teasing the stallions at the fence which she hadn't done since before she had Lily.

So, again I appreciate all the responses. And certainly welcome more. I'll be making my mind up soon and I'll let everyone know what I decided and how, if applicable, it turns out.

Thanks!

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Well considering what a nervous wreck she was with Lilly and it sounds like she is fully enjoying herself I would just let her live her life to the fullest and let her spend her days just running out in the pasture and let her retire.

She for sure gave you a beautiful baby, and no question she would for sure have a beautiful one with Spirit, and she is a Blue Boy daughter it is a tough decision, but I would retire her if she was mine.

 

[RJRMINIS]

Just my opinion, but if she was vet checked and is in good health. I would give it a chance, If it isn't meant to be she won't get in foal...but it is worth a shot. Sounds like you would really like to see this cross, so why not. Now if she wasn't in good condition at her age or the vet saw problems I would say no, retire her.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[Shari]

At that age.. I would worry about loosing both the mare and foal. Foaling at the best of times has its risks. If you really want foals badly from her, you can have the Vet flush eggs from her, if she has any left and implant them in younger mares.

I would love one more foal to keep from Maggie but I am too worried about loosing her, so she will never be bred again.

 

[Allure Ranch]

[SIZE=12pt]I 'm not aware of how long you've owned your special little lady "Puddin" but she's in phenomenal condition for her age. [/SIZE]

I did look at her breeding history and noticed the ten year span from when she had foaled prior to 2007. Of course she could always have had other foals within that period that just aren't listed but not knowing would concern me and I'd personally have to consider retiring her myself.

It's a difficult decision to know when the correct time is to retire our horses from breeding. With our own bodies as women we know exactly when and it's completely obvious.

I also looked up the age relationship for humans verses horses and your special little lady "Puddin" is charted somewhere around 69 years of age.

I truly think that she's given you her greatest gift "Lily" in 2007.... What ever you decide she is phenomenal....

 

[Magic]

I have a 25 year old mare that last foaled three years ago. She settled on ONE breeding, had no problems with the pregnancy or birth, and kept her weight fine while nursing with a little extra feed. She likely could have kept having foals for a few more years, and her foals have been absolutely wonderful (she is the dam to my Mountain Highs AMayZing), but I retired her, and I swear that she was relieved.

As much as she loved her foals, I was worried that she would miss having one by her side but she is quite content to leave that to the younger mares now. I got this mare when she was already twenty years old and got "only" the one foal out of her for myself (a beautiful palomino pinto filly) but to me she had earned her retirement with me just by giving birth to my wonderful AMayZing.

In my short-story-turned-long way, I'm saying that if your mare was mine, she wouldn't be bred. IMHO every mare (every horse) deserves a good retirement.