Overo Patterns

[Margaret]

This one would qualify for overo, with some other descriptions I'm sure, along with splashed white.

feel free to offer a color description if you have one.

He is an 08 colt out of a blue eyed pinto mare and a classic Champagne stallion.

 

[kaykay]

hi tam

I dont think your guy is roan either but maybe you have more pictures?? His color looks too even.

Saber I think is tobiano and sabino. Could be splash but he has an awful lot of tobiano color which splash usually likes to cover up like flank marks and chest sheilds

 

[cowgurl_up]

Wow! The horse posted here are just

!!!!!

Carolyn R - Thanks so much for the list of website! I have been to Red Rocks, LTD's, Kickapoo's, and ROKO's many times (just makes me wish I had more space!). I will have to find the other two you listed though and check them out!!!!

Fern - Thanks so much for your compliment on Tee!!! I love your Twister and have enjoyed seeing pictures of him!

Lucky-C - Thanks for showing pictures of your guy! I really love Sky!

Desiree - Your descriptions made a ton of sense! Thanks for taking the time to type that out for me! I realy appreciated it! Cat is a very pretty mare! I can't wait to see what she does for you!

This is another one of those threads that I am going to have to print out and save! Thanks everyone!

 

[Dona]

Here are some of the Frame Overos we've produced here at Kickapoo. They all carry Sabino as well....and have roaning & lacy edges.

Kickapoo's Apache Moon





Kickapoo's Laced By Moonlite



Kickapoo's A MayZing Moon

 

[REO]

Dona, don't forget MY boy!

He carries Sabino, Frame, Tobi, & Splash, right?

Kickapoo Moons Phantom Feather

 

[Dona]

Dona, don't forget MY boy!
He carries Sabino, Frame, Tobi, & Splash, right?

Kickapoo Moons Phantom Feather

Oh....Gosh NO! Can't forget "Topper"! He does carry Tobi, Frame & Sabino....and possibly Splash. Not sure about that one as there is no test for that yet.

How's that handsome fella doing, anyway?

 

[shelly]

OK, my stally is homozygous tobiano and LWO-...so he cannot be splash or frame or sabino or overo. Right?

 

[Songcatcher]

OK, my stally is homozygous tobiano and LWO-...so he cannot be splash or frame or sabino or overo. Right?

OK, I thought Rabbitsfizz would come on here and explain what a useless term "Overo" is, but she must be busy.

Overo is simply a term used for white patterns that are not Tobiano. It is NOT a particular gene. It can refer to Frame (LWO), Splash, or Sabino. The three have nothing in common, but it is possible to have all three in combination as well as having Tobiano. Tovero is simply a combination of the terms Tobiano and Overo, referring to the fact that a horse has one of the so-called "Overo" genes in addition to Tobiano. A horse can be homozygous or have any combination of any or all of the genes except for LWO as being homozygous for that would result in a lethal foal. Having one of the genes does NOT prevent a horse from having any or all of the others.

Use of the term "Overo" confuses people into thinking it is a particular gene. Using the individual names (Frame {which is the same as LWO}, Splash, and Sabino) causes less confusion. However (and I know Rabbitsfizz will disagree with me on this), I have no problem with referring to any horse with Tobiano markings and also white on the face (which is not a result of Tobiano) as a Tovero. It simply means to me a combination of patterns.

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

OK, my stally is homozygous tobiano and LWO-...so he cannot be splash or frame or sabino or overo. Right? wacko.gif

Your stallion COULD possibly have sabino and/or splash, he just DOES NOT carry the frame/LWO gene, and will throw tobiano foals

 

[Tam VanderWerf]

Kay Kay....

Here is another picture of him. Maybe it will clear up the "roan" question. If you look up on his neck, you can see it is very "roany" there.

Thanks for your help!

Tam

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

Here is another picture of him. Maybe it will clear up the "roan" question. If you look up on his neck, you can see it is very "roany" there.

I'm still sticking with him being sabino and not a roan.. Either way he's absolutely beautiful

 

[crponies]

I don't think that last horse pictured is a true roan either but the roaning is from sabino. Going back to the original horse pictured, doesn't that mustache point to a particular pattern? I was thinking that is a sign of frame.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Freeland you worded that very well, I may steal it as it is far more diplomatic than my normal "tovero is a pointless, useless, long since outdated term used to bump up the price or make people feel the horse is special" comments!!!

The horse pictured does not look Roan...has he ever sired a Roan?? Basically he looks Sabino, which can cause quite heavy roaning, and true Roan horses are normally a lot paler than that in the body, I have never seen a "minimal" true Roan!!

The moustache was thought to indicate Frame but it really doesn't, it is a bit like the pawprints on H/Z Tobianos....they are often there on H/Z horses but their absence does not mean the horse is not H/Z. The moustache is often there on Frame but it does not have to be there and it's presence does not mean the horse has to be Frame.

We have seen instances of it in horse that have only Splash, no Frame, and horse that, visually, have only Sabino (tested neg. for LWO)

 

[Joanne]

Tam I agree with some of the others that your horse is carrying sabino and is not a roan.

But to add one thing that has not been mentioned. There is currently no test for Splash, which is unfortunate.

Also there is only one sabino test at this time (SB1) and there is believed to be several sabino genes.

We believe several of my horses carry multiple sabino genes. One is a roaning gene that at its extreme during the year can bring the horse to look like a true roan, but then they shed out and have true dark markings. Some of the sabino genes change the horses coloring as they age, getting more roaning on them. This may not become apparent until they are two or three.

This is Pacific Midnight Dancer. She is lighter in the summer then in the winter. And has gotten more roaning each season. There is NO GREY in her background. She was born a minimal white tobiano.

She was tested at Animal Genetics and is a tobiano, homozygous for black, negative for frame, and negative for sabino (sb1). Her dam is a jet black tobiano pinto and her sire is a LTD Magic Man son that is a frame sabino pinto.

She has been a puzzle to us, so your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks, Joanne

 

[shelly]

OK, my stally is homozygous tobiano and LWO-...so he cannot be splash or frame or sabino or overo. Right? wacko.gif

Your stallion COULD possibly have sabino and/or splash, he just DOES NOT carry the frame/LWO gene, and will throw tobiano foals

These are the results of his tests...Tobiano-TT, LWO-nn, Red-Ee, Agouti-aa, cream-nn and silver-nZ. I guess I will have to send in for sabino too?

I tested Sahara for tobiano and she is nT...does that mean she is a minimal tobiano?

 

[Joanne]

If Sahara is a nT she carries one tobiano gene and yes, she is a tobiano pinto.

 

[Songcatcher]

OK, my stally is homozygous tobiano and LWO-...so he cannot be splash or frame or sabino or overo. Right? wacko.gif

Your stallion COULD possibly have sabino and/or splash, he just DOES NOT carry the frame/LWO gene, and will throw tobiano foals

These are the results of his tests...Tobiano-TT, LWO-nn, Red-Ee, Agouti-aa, cream-nn and silver-nZ. I guess I will have to send in for sabino too?

I tested Sahara for tobiano and she is nT...does that mean she is a minimal tobiano?

Your stallion is homozygous for Tobiano (one copy from each parent), negative for LWO, heterozygous for Red/Black (one copy of each, but Black is dominant), negative for Agouti (Bay), negative for Cream, and heterozygous for Silver (only one copy). Sahara is heterozygous for Tobiano. That means she got the gene from only one parent and statistically will pass it on to her foals only 50% of the time. It has nothing to do with whether she is minimal or maximum. Those terms refer to the amount of white on the body. A heterozygous Tobiano can be maximum marked and a homozygous can be very minimally marked, or vise versa.

 

[Tapestry Minis]

Here is my love

Reeces Phantom Hawk LWO+