overpopulation

[user 488]

JEE Jill. I wonder who they could be. Maybe I will get out my super magical decoder PM ring and investigate.

Nikki..........see those bare spots? I burned the hair right off with my curling iron.

 

[Jill]

WELL, I think that in this pack meeting, my fan club should get to vote, too. I'm a shoe in for this crown!!!!

JEE Jill. I wonder who they could be. Maybe I will get out my super magical decoder PM ring and investigate.

PERS, Carol... I just cannot imagine who these folks might be

 

[Minimor]

That's our Jill, always got to be the BEST at everything.

 

[Jill]

I know jeeze........ that darn elitist in me!!!!

Man, though... here pretty soon, my title's going to be the sleepiest forum member. It's way past my bedtime.

 

[mininik]

Too much ganga, Jill... switch back to crack and you'll be fine.

 

[nootka]

If I know who the secret society of helpful informants are, do I get a free ring and glasses (sans hairy dude, pls)?

Matt, and anyone else who feels "put down" that was never the intention nor is it the intention.

None of us are right all the time, and most of us are able to see that we were wrong, and admit it.

I'm probably wrong right now, I just hope I'm not making mistakes that cause others (including my horses) to suffer.

Believe me, there's nothing worse than finding out one of the little horses you raised, trained, and put so much hope into and care, turned out to be someone's neglected "pet."

Yes, show horses or any horse for that matter, could end up that way, it's just so much more likely when we sell to the pet market, because noone goes and checks on the horses every month or so like the show horses (brought to a show so one can see just HOW they are doing rather than driving by and seeing them neglected in a field.).

I do think there are alternatives to breeding pet only horses, as in rescuing and rehabbing some, or adopting from rescues. This is what I would love for people to see, other than wanting their own foal, or to breed their own foal.

Foalhood is so short-lived, and yet so much can be done to ruin a horse when they're so young and malleable. It really is only for those with previous horse experience, or those who are humble enough to accept guidance of a reasonable and seasoned horseperson.

I know there are exceptions, but honestly, when I took on my first herd unexpectedly, two of the mares were pregnant. I had had horses for nearly ten years prior, had worked with and studied horses all of my life. I KNEW the two mares were not the best quality, and the one I knew for sure was bad. Her foal was alright, and I sold him as a pet gelding and gave her away (she rejected her foal and my first foaling ending up with a rejected foal was a real eye=opener for me). I gave away one other mare from the herd, and still have one (Gramma Pony).

The other I sold as a broodmare to someone who wanted to breed "Over" horses, but only after I broke her to drive.

I wish I knew then what I know now, as I would have wasted some less time with some things, but overall, I had a lot of horse experience. I find so many people wanting them for the novelty being people without.

I hope you realize it is a sad fact that there are too many minis being bred for the wrong reasons and it bothers us.

Does it mean people with a valid breeding goal should stop moving forward? No...it just means we have to be extra careful with our goals, and we have to be extra vigilant as to where we sell our horses, how we market them (if we care, and most of us do), and also that we have to accept less for that job.

"We" meaning collective, not adding myself to any elite. Nope. Nuh-uh.

Liz

 

[horsehug]

Hi Matt,

I have been so busy the last few days and weeks that I did not keep up totally with this thread, but in looking back to your posts I just wanted to say I do see a lot that I do agree with.

I have many times thought that if you have a wonderful little horse that is built in such a way that it moves comfortably and lives a very functional, sound and happy life, you want more like it! At least I have a few like that. They may not be halter winners in the current show ring of today, but to "me" they are winners and I love it when I get babies "like" them! And I am talking sound foals that sell easily and give their owners joy also while living happy comfortable functional useful lives! And like someone mentioned in one of these threads, just being a happy well cared for pasture ornament can be a valid use also in my book!

I guess this is my way of saying I do understand breeding for soundness and funtionality, while I also understand those who choose to breed for halter winners, and I wish we could all understand that we each have our own goals, and if the wellbeing of our little horses is at the forefront, I do not see a problem with following our own goals.

To achieve breeding horses that do well in halter as well as performance as well as bringing joy to their owners as happy pets, that is indeed wonderful also. But to me so long as the horses are comfortable and sound, and do not suffer, I think goals in any of these endeavors are good.

Susan O.

 

[maestoso]

Excellent post Susan.

 

[Lil Farm]

...

It is not the mini horse that is overpopulated, it is the STUPID, UNEDUCATED, ABUSIVE, NEGLECTFUL, AND IGNORANT, owners that are overpopulated.

So instead of focusing all of the energy on telling good, responsible, homes that they shouldn't breed, why don't you focus that energy on using your knowledge and experience to help someone understand how to be more responsible, and how to give their minis a better home.

Irresponsible breeding is only a fraction of the problem and yet that is the only part anyone here seems to be focusing on, and they take it too far by telling good horse owners that they shouldn't breed because their horses are inferior.

NOT EVERYONE HAS TO HAVE A GOAL OF ALWAYS MAKING THE BREED BETTER. THIS BREED S NOT JUST FOR THE ELITE. SOME PEOPLE JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN AND ENJOY THEIR ANIMALS.

...

(In bold) Now this is something I'm inclined to agree with you about Matt but I do think those "responsible" breeders do their absolute best to educate the buyers when they sell. There is definately a shortage of good homes. Anyone who thinks not is hiding their heads in the sand and/or has been just plain lucky. But as human nature goes, you can't always see into the hearts of those who end up buying your horse--whether they are truly willing to sacrifice when times get tough or just let the horse go without, whether they are feeding you a load of crap about their horsemanship skills or not. There are no gaurantees no matter how well you prepare or how well you interview, most of those horses go to those new homes on a wish and a prayer. Few people new to horses, and even some who've been around awhile, can or ever do grasp what it takes to care properly for equine unless they have made the commitment on all levels. It's more than throwing out some hay and keeping the water bucket filled and sadly some don't realize what they've gotten themselves into before they purchase. I have NEVER advised anyone to get a horse. It's not the usual type of person who is willing to get up in the middle of the night with a sick horse, spend thousands on vet bills, farriers, blankets, tons of hay, fix fences and spend you every waking moment being concerned with them. Most people would call horse people obsessed or just plain crazy and unfortunatley just too few of them.

Which leads me to wonder that if you believe what you have said, why on earth would you be inclined to support breeding at all, responsible breeder, good owner, pet or show quality regardless of affordability if you think there is such an over population of "STUPID, UNEDUCATED, ABUSIVE, NEGLECTFUL, AND IGNORANT" owners as a sales base? It's hard enough for a horse with everything going for it to have a good future let alone some poor mediocre little thing that someone produced on a whim.

I know that this is the reason I will never be involved in breeding at any level and with good reason. I've taken in more than my fair share of horses throughout the years that have been bred, I'm sure, by some loving, kind, well-meaning people but when they left that heaven on earth and were sold to someone, or even many, along the line ended up in some pretty bad situations. There is even a faction in the population that purposely seeks out free or cheap animals to torment and torture. I hope to God people keep their prices up to at least weed out those creeps.

 

[maestoso]

Thanks for your post Lil Farm. My point was actually that the "hype" of the breed being overpopulated, seems to be focused on just one aspect of the solution, that will never be solved, because it's uncontrollable.

I do support breeding because I think that it can be a very rewarding and fun aspect of the industry. And I think that the industry is for anyone who can care for, love, and provide safety for, their mini regardless of what their goals or hobbies are.

The human race is over populated too, there are lots of orphanages filled with children, lots of children in foster care and group homes, and children getting killed, sold, enslaved, etc in foreign countries, and yet I don't see anyone arguing that humans should stop having babies. You would say, "I want the experience of having my own child" and so be it, who am I to argue that?

Maybe I shouldn't say this, perhaps I'll get flamed that horses aren't humans and I realize this, but it's the same principal.

 

[Marty]

[SIZE=14pt]Well I missed the rude pm party so let me just sing this last carol for yalls and I'll carol my fat butt to bed and leave you all with this final thought........[/SIZE]

[SIZE=18pt][/SIZE]

Let There Be Peace on Earth and let it begin with me.

Let There Be Peace on Earth, the peace that was meant to be!

With Mary Lou as our leader, sisters and brothers all are we.

Let us all trot into the forum, in perfect harmony.

 

[tagalong]

Matt - when you start a post with this protest....

When the goal turns to mean jabs and insults...

... and yet have gone out of your way to be smug and sneer.... I cannot help but go... huh?

Contrary to your assertion - many heated topics have been discussed here. Many times over. There have been excellent discussions with a wide variety of opinions - yes, they have gotten heated upon occasion - but without the snide little insults you seem to pride yourself on.

This kind of comment....

I know there are a lot of commas here, and perhaps some big words, which can be confusing, but I hope those of you who had trouble "understanding" my last post can understand this...)

... is unnecessary IMO. You claim that you want a discussion and yet insist on the little jabs?? That does not make for any kind of a discussion.

You can make your points and encourage discussion without any of that. Or - maybe not. More than 20 pages later and the song remains the same... but carry on as you please.

And if this thread got a bit goofy and people were letting off some steam - well, I really cannot see anything wrong with it.

If a thread is not to one's liking - do not keep reading it - or scroll. Believe me - this forum is extremely tame compared to most message boards out there - EXTREMELY tame

... and the only time I have seen this forum careening even remotely towards the Dark Side was a couple of years ago when one poster knew more than anyone else and ran roughshod over anyone who did not agree with him, insulting, trashing, bashing... and it was a an ugly time as many here can attest to.

I guess this is my way of saying I do understand breeding for soundness and funtionality, while I also understand those who choose to breed for halter winners, and I wish we could all understand that we each have our own goals, and if the wellbeing of our little horses is at the forefront, I do not see a problem with following our own goals.

horsehug - the way I see it - the goals you mentioned are one and the same... soundness and functionality = form to function - put together in the right way is that halter/performance winner - even if they never see a show ring.

And so hopefully we are all on the same path... moving forward... and improving along the way...

 

[Jill]

[SIZE=14pt]Well I missed the rude pm party so let me just sing this last carol for yalls and I'll carol my fat butt to bed and leave you all with this final thought........[/SIZE]

[SIZE=18pt][/SIZE]

Let There Be Peace on Earth and let it begin with me.

Let There Be Peace on Earth, the peace that was meant to be!

With Mary Lou as our leader, sisters and brothers all are we.

Let us all trot into the forum, in perfect harmony.

[SIZE=24pt][/SIZE]

And then when we're all happy

As anyone could see

Someone's gonna get nasty

'cause they need a stick-ectomy

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Sorry I am still a bit spaced out from all the ganga (it's much better in brownies, BTW

) and I can't find my decoder ring - it must be in the bed somewhere, I guess......

BUT

Now, correct me if I am wrong, but...

Matt, did you actually suggest that the fact that the US is overpopulated, grossly, with Miniature Horses, is hype ???????

 

[ChrystalPaths]

I am truly sorry.. I got caught up in the funny things and getting giddy with my old age.. I hope no one feels I was making fun of anyone here.. that honestly was not my intension.. If I hurt anyone's feelings, I am so very sorry.. it was not meant that way..

But it continues--reply by reply, the lb reputation is joining Oscar. As is the reputation of some of the repliers. The integrity of this forum is fading--and yes--all it takes is something like this. So sad. So many disappointed--but they won't speak up.

You obviously have no clue as to how you are coming across to the many who are reading this in dismay. Some of you may regret this fun later.

Wow.

When the goal turns to mean jabs and insults, it can't be educational. And its seems that opinions on heated topics, can't reasonably be discussed here,

First of all......NIKKI.......more coke (acola) out my nose. The second time in minutes!

Matt.......I have not taken part of ANY of your discussion but pray tell what was the "GOAL" Was it your goal? Did you think everyone was going to agree with you? Or were you merely trolling for trouble. Sometimes things just don't go as planned.

As for HEATED TOPICS not being discussed here? You could have fooled me. There are many "heated discussions" on this Forum. They just seem to make more sense than this one. Again, I didn't participate in this one because I had to drum up my decoder ring and glasses to even start to understand half the stuff you were saying.

If you think the goal is for people to be right or wrong you have come to the wrong place. It is nothing more than a place to exchange ideas.

The goal became, at least for a couple, to just insult and devalue the opinion, rather than sharing ones own.

I saw a lot of people sharing opinions. I saw you devalue as many opinions as others devalued yours.

I don't think you were any less guilty than anyone else. And that's just my opinion. I have nothing against you personally....nor anyone else on this Forum. You come here fighting and you are going to get people to fight back. Me........I'd rather just have a good laugh and get on with things. I suggest you try to move on too................

If I know who the secret society of helpful informants are, do I get a free ring and glasses (sans hairy dude, pls)?

Matt, and anyone else who feels "put down" that was never the intention nor is it the intention.

None of us are right all the time, and most of us are able to see that we were wrong, and admit it.

I'm probably wrong right now, I just hope I'm not making mistakes that cause others (including my horses) to suffer.

Believe me, there's nothing worse than finding out one of the little horses you raised, trained, and put so much hope into and care, turned out to be someone's neglected "pet."

Yes, show horses or any horse for that matter, could end up that way, it's just so much more likely when we sell to the pet market, because noone goes and checks on the horses every month or so like the show horses (brought to a show so one can see just HOW they are doing rather than driving by and seeing them neglected in a field.).

I do think there are alternatives to breeding pet only horses, as in rescuing and rehabbing some, or adopting from rescues. This is what I would love for people to see, other than wanting their own foal, or to breed their own foal.

Foalhood is so short-lived, and yet so much can be done to ruin a horse when they're so young and malleable. It really is only for those with previous horse experience, or those who are humble enough to accept guidance of a reasonable and seasoned horseperson.

I know there are exceptions, but honestly, when I took on my first herd unexpectedly, two of the mares were pregnant. I had had horses for nearly ten years prior, had worked with and studied horses all of my life. I KNEW the two mares were not the best quality, and the one I knew for sure was bad. Her foal was alright, and I sold him as a pet gelding and gave her away (she rejected her foal and my first foaling ending up with a rejected foal was a real eye=opener for me). I gave away one other mare from the herd, and still have one (Gramma Pony).

The other I sold as a broodmare to someone who wanted to breed "Over" horses, but only after I broke her to drive.

I wish I knew then what I know now, as I would have wasted some less time with some things, but overall, I had a lot of horse experience. I find so many people wanting them for the novelty being people without.

I hope you realize it is a sad fact that there are too many minis being bred for the wrong reasons and it bothers us.

Does it mean people with a valid breeding goal should stop moving forward? No...it just means we have to be extra careful with our goals, and we have to be extra vigilant as to where we sell our horses, how we market them (if we care, and most of us do), and also that we have to accept less for that job.

"We" meaning collective, not adding myself to any elite. Nope. Nuh-uh.

Liz

Hi Matt,

I have been so busy the last few days and weeks that I did not keep up totally with this thread, but in looking back to your posts I just wanted to say I do see a lot that I do agree with.

I have many times thought that if you have a wonderful little horse that is built in such a way that it moves comfortably and lives a very functional, sound and happy life, you want more like it! At least I have a few like that. They may not be halter winners in the current show ring of today, but to "me" they are winners and I love it when I get babies "like" them! And I am talking sound foals that sell easily and give their owners joy also while living happy comfortable functional useful lives! And like someone mentioned in one of these threads, just being a happy well cared for pasture ornament can be a valid use also in my book!

I guess this is my way of saying I do understand breeding for soundness and funtionality, while I also understand those who choose to breed for halter winners, and I wish we could all understand that we each have our own goals, and if the wellbeing of our little horses is at the forefront, I do not see a problem with following our own goals.

To achieve breeding horses that do well in halter as well as performance as well as bringing joy to their owners as happy pets, that is indeed wonderful also. But to me so long as the horses are comfortable and sound, and do not suffer, I think goals in any of these endeavors are good.

Susan O.

All very interesting reading. Now I don't breed anymore but did once and well...while I love them and their new owners love them they most likely weren't the best of the best but the best I could breed and I was pretty proud of several.

This thread came off initially as a challenge to my mind, not just a discussion...kinda "here's the gauntlet, I'm throwing it down", knowing things were gonna get deep and hot...then seeing the heat and loving the forum ML knew a bit of fun would help keep feelings intact and light as well as continue the discussion, as did Mona and Carol and the fun merchandisers who contributed levity to a serious thread. No harm, it needed a bit of cool water and got it. Honestly too many take life too seriously. There is no black and white merely opinion... always has been, always will be and this is why I come here still...I love the people, love the commentary.

BTW I can create a custom decoder ring and glasses if anyone is interested.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

When the goal turns to mean jabs and insults, it can't be educational.

Like many others on this board, I sometimes feel the need to get the last word in,

There is no point in trying to share an opinion or argue a point, when there is(no offense) a group of adult ladies who share a similar thought and will not stop at anything to convince everyone else that they are right.

MAtt... how are you not doing the exact same thing? You are and have turned to mean Jabs and insults... you feel you must have the last word, and you want to stop at nothing to convince everyone else that you are right on this subject and you are angry that others are doing the same thing?

BOttom line is no one has to have the last word or argue a point no one is going to change your mind nor are you going to change theres on this subject... just agree to disagree and move on let it go

 

[capall beag]

Well I have been reading along!

How can people be offended by this topic when NO ONE is required to read it!!

If you don't like it, DON'T read it!!

C'mon!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then getting mad at people for being funny! If you don't like their comedy don't read it!

It seems to me most of the people having fun on this topic are old timers who are normally quick to help, educate and advise others and if they choose to have a laugh on a topic who cares??

Just like TV, you don't have to watch everything!

As a fellow Mainer, I agree with some of the earlier posts but breeding poor quality horses is never beneficial to the breed and even in Maine I have heard many breeders say they are finding it harder to sell their young stock now.

Shoot me now!! I think in Maine mini horses are often over priced! Very average quality is priced at good quality prices JMHO!

 

[Mini Mouse]

I am truly sorry.. I got caught up in the funny things and getting giddy with my old age.. I hope no one feels I was making fun of anyone here.. that honestly was not my intension.. If I hurt anyone's feelings, I am so very sorry.. it was not meant that way..

But it continues--reply by reply, the lb reputation is joining Oscar. As is the reputation of some of the repliers. The integrity of this forum is fading--and yes--all it takes is something like this. So sad. So many disappointed--but they won't speak up.

You obviously have no clue as to how you are coming across to the many who are reading this in dismay. Some of you may regret this fun later.

Wow.

I couldn't agree more! Frankly, I am shocked at the twist this topic has taken. I was under the assumption that this part of the forum was to help and educate people in the care of miniature horses, not to make fun of them. If you were a teacher and had a student that "just didn't get it" would you keep trying to get it across to him or just give up and publicly humiliate him. That is what this topic has turned into .. people trying to humiliate posters that don't agree with them.

I suppose you will try to humiliate me now for posting this but frankly, I don't care. I am sickened by this thread and doubt very seriously if I will be asking for advice from any of these people every again.

Oh and BTW, I am new to minis and thought I could get good sound advice here but I see that is not the case when you are afraid to ask for fear of being humiliated. This has turned into a sad situation.

 

[Jill]

I have another market place idea to go along with the rings and glasses. A repellent spray that will give those who are so dismayed by what is being said on this thread the will power to avoid what they can't stand to read (but can't help from reading and posting and reading and posting right on the thread they don't like!).

 

[lvponies]

I honestly do not feel that anyone was making fun of anyone or trying to put them down in any way. Haven't you ever been somewhere where laughing would be inappropriate, but you get an attack of the giggles and can't stop yourself regardless of how hard you try?? In fact the harder you try, the more your eyes water, you snort and you giggle uncontrollably? I really think that those who have been offended by the levity on this thread have totally taken it the wrong way and gotten offended over nothing. No one was pointing and laughing at anyone. It was just plain silliness and having fun. Not meant at anyone's expense or to hurt anyone's feelings. It saddens me that some were hurt by this, but just do not feel it was meant to hurt anyone. Is it possible some of you have just taken this the wrong way? Put more meaning into it then was intended? Been more sensitive then the situation warranted? I'd hate to think that the Forum has turned into a totally serious place where fun, joking and silliness isn't allowed for fear of hurting anyone's feelings. It's just like the TV or radio, if you don't care for the content change the channel, the station or don't continue reading the thread. I enjoy having fun and being silly on occasion and don't see anything at all wrong with that. Lighten up folks. No one was intentionally trying to hurt your feelings or offend you. This is a great place to be where opinions of all sorts are welcome. No guarantee that anyone will actually agree with your opinion, but you are absolutely welcome to share it. Just remember that once you share your opinion, you have to be open for everyone else to share theirs as well and it might be the total opposite of yours. Doesn't mean yours is wrong or the other poster's is right. Just means that everyone is entitled to their opinion. As someone on the forum says, they are offering their opinion as theirs is the one they know best!!