Palin on environment and wildlife and habitat protection

[Pepipony]

On top of one of the latest go aheads from her some wolves were shot and their cubs that remained behind were also shot. Disgusting. I could see if it was caribou or whatever for sustanance but killing the wolves and cubs, pure sport and I am not for that kind of killing.

I find it interesting that this is so bothersome to some, but we will support the killing of an unborn child.

Ahhhh isnt that apples and oranges? Maybe that sentiment needs its own thread.

 

[Danielle_E.]

On top of one of the latest go aheads from her some wolves were shot and their cubs that remained behind were also shot. Disgusting. I could see if it was caribou or whatever for sustanance but killing the wolves and cubs, pure sport and I am not for that kind of killing.

I find it interesting that this is so bothersome to some, but we will support the killing of an unborn child.

I find it interesting that those that keep on saying over and over and over again they want less government in their lives and yet they are willing to back someone who wants to take one of those freedoms away - the right to choose. Instead of going forward in womens right you are going backwards. What about the 12 year old that gets rape by a family member. You are going to make her carry that child to term? Perhaps go through birthing with complications that will render her unable to ever have children again???? What about the child who is 12 or 14 who gets pregnant and the family turns their back on that girl, what then? Do you want a nation of single mothers bringing up their children in poverty? and yet with the mentality of these people it's "your on your own" we aren't going to back any programs (from my taxes) to help you get out of this mess. How hypocritical! My personal believe is it should be the choice of the woman BUT I believe their should be no abortion after 3 months, maximum allowed unless for medical issues (mother's life in danger). I don't want to play God with another person's life.

You have no problem backing a war where MANY children have been killed, innocent children as well, what about that?????

. What is this war about? Not about any threat to the U.S. At least if it was for that reason but it's not. This war was a lie and you still say, Bush did the right thing, he is wonderful. Okay

 

[Sonya]

This war was a lie and you still say, Bush did the right thing, he is wonderful. Okay

We are not talking about Bush in this post, we are talking about the current candidates.

And I do not find it ok for women to use abortion as a means of birth control! The instances you mentioned are what I play an exception to. I do not feel that McCain has any intent to try to reverse Roe vs. Wade if that's what you are implying.

I do believe that the majority of abortions due occur as a means of birth control and not the issues you listed above.

 

[Danielle_E.]

This war was a lie and you still say, Bush did the right thing, he is wonderful. Okay

We are not talking about Bush in this post, we are talking about the current candidates.

And I do not find it ok for women to use abortion as a means of birth control! The instances you mentioned are what I play an exception to. I do not feel that McCain has any intent to try to reverse Roe vs. Wade if that's what you are implying.

I do believe that the majority of abortions due occur as a means of birth control and not the issues you listed above.

Sonya, do you know for a "fact" that the[SIZE=14pt] majority [/SIZE]of abortions are used as birth control? So basically you are saying that women who have abortions have many and use this as a form of birth control? Can you tell me where you get this information?

If this were to go through, where all abortions are illegal you will be sending women back to the point where there will be many deaths when these women seek illegal abortions as what use to happen. Why do you feel you (meaning the the Republicans and those that back them) have the right to dictate to another woman what she does with her body? How does it affect you personally. Then in another breath it's mentioned how important freedom from government intervention is... you can't have your cake and eat it too. It's either one way or the other and then the argument aboutg universal health care goes out the door since government intervention shouldn't be a problem now for those that oppose government in your every day life.

 

[Sonya]

Sonya, do you know for a "fact" that the majority of abortions are used as birth control

Abortion Statistics

about half way down:

Why women have abortions1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).

edited to add:

here was another interesting stat on abortion :

In the study entitled Repeat Abortion in the United States, released this month, researchers found that 48.2 percent of women who had abortions between 2000-2001 were obtaining repeat abortions. That included 29 percent who had one previous abortion, 12 percent who had two previous abortions, and 7 percent who were aborting their fourth or more pregnancy.

Link
Half...that is way to many, majority were older too, that are having repeat abortions. I do not want to tell anyone what to do with their body nor do I want the govt..., but this number is way to high...and proves that abortion is being used as birth control...making a mistake as a teen, young adult.... understandable....but half doing it more than once...that is not a mistake, that is carelessness!

I do not want roe vs. wade overturned as I said in my previous post and I do not believe that will happen if McCain gets in office. Although, I do not agree that abortion should be means of birth control, and by the stats listed on the above link, it clearly is in most cases.

As far as less govt., you are correct I want less govt. That is not the reason I do not want universal healthcare. I do not want universal healthcare because it's rate of failure is significant in other countries.

 

[Danielle_E.]

First the rate of failure of universal healthcare that you mention is a fairy tale. Please tell me one country where they had universal healthcare and it has been abandoned or totally collapsed. I know of none. What I do know is Americans are losing their homes when unable to pay the ridiculous cost of healthcare in your country, what I know is that many have to forgo taking their children to doctors when they need to be seen, what I know is that many don't have healthcare in the U.S. because of the highcost of premiums and the fact they aren't covered by their employer. What I know is that the system you have just make the insurance companies richer, look at their profit, it's unreal. We aren't talking car insurance here, we are talking human beings that without their health, they don't have anything. Why is it that most countries have some kind of universal type of system and the U.S. does not. Itseems to me that it all has to do with the "American Dream" and the pursuit of $$$$ taking precedence over the people of the U.S and that $$$ is equal to success in life? I am truly trying to understand why you would not prefer to lets say pay extra in taxes (not more than what you are paying in premiums for your health care) and not have to deal with having claims denied by your health insurance provider. All you are doing is making the health insurance provider rich with the exhorbitant cost of premiums. We complain about big business making overwhelming profits at the expense of the tax payer often to the point of the detriment of the public. Look at what happen just befoe hurricane Ike. Some of your gas station in the areas were charing over $5.00 a gallon!!!!! That is pure highway robbery. So with absolutely no regulations (government) they can do as they please. The non-regulation is what got the U.S. in the mess right now (mortgages). I understand it's going to cost 700 billion dollar intervention in order to keep your financial markets afloat.

It would be interesting to see in the abortion issue how many of these women who seek repeat abortions if they live in poverty, etc. Sarah Palin wants to remove sex education in the schools

. If she thinks that this will bring down the numbers of pregnancies in the U.S. she is dreaming in technic color and preaching abstinence won't bring it down either. The answer is MORE education, not less. Removing abortion rights isn't going to chance the picture, it will just mean you will either have desperate women going to "butchers" to have the procedure done, you will have more single mothers living on social assistance, you will have more living in utter proverty, you will have more child abuse, etc.

I don't think anyone has the right to tell someone else what to do with their body, period. It does not affect you personally in the least except in you feel that morally you have that right over another human being. Then if you feel that way I would expect that you would be against any kind of war as well because that is a moral issue when innocent children and adults are killed.

I guess I am naive as I would have thought that most important things in your election to the U.S. public would be the economy (first and foremost) as it touches directly each person, health care and foreign policy. Foreign policy in the sense of the huge amounts that have been spent on war. Those are your tax $$ that were spent on fictitious weapons of mass destruction.

 

[Sonya]

I guess I am naive as I would have thought that most important things in your election to the U.S. public would be the economy (first and foremost) as it touches directly each person, health care and foreign policy

Who said it wasn't? Only you

All the issues above have been hashed out in other threads, it just seems when someone proves you wrong, you get defensive and immediately pick up on another topic.

As far as healthcare, yes the U.S. does need somekind of healthcare reform, I never denied that. Lets take a look at England's system...I'm sure our UK members have some very nice things to say about their healthcare. Canada did make it work better than most countries. About a week ago there was a thread regarding Canadian healthcare system...I and you as well posted on that thread...I got 4 pm's from Canadian members saying there are major issues with the healthcare they receive, so obviously not everyone has been as lucky as you, for some reason they were afraid to speak up though.

It would be interesting to see in the abortion issue how many of these women who seek repeat abortions if they live in poverty

What does that have to do with the tea in China???? If you can't afford kids, then I suppose you shouldn't be having unprotected sex. I would assume a trojan is cheaper than an abortion! You asked for stats and I gave them to you, so don't be angry with me.

we are talking human beings

That's an odd statement being you are so pro-choice....which for the 3rd time...I never said I wasn't! It is a grey area for me which I explained in detail.

 

[bingo]

Just my 2 cents here for what it is worth. I do strongly believe the abortion issue is not one to be hashed out on a public Miniature Hose forum. Everyone has a right to opinions no doubt but this is a very sensitive issue and we have no idea who among us reading that is now or has had to deal with their own issues when it comes to abortion.

For the time being it is a right every women here has and I am sure it is not an easy decision for over 99.99 percent of women that make that choice. I would hate to hurt anyone in a debate on politics that is simply not going to change minds. When the issue is one that is deeply personal and private for many. Again just my humble opinion.

 

[Jill]

Sonya, just remember, you and I actually get to VOTE in this election, unlike Danielle, who will, I assume, be casting political votes only in Canada. It's the people who actually live here and vote here who decide, and who are most able to know what's best for the USA. Not outside observers and "commentators".

 

[tagalong]

Jill, just remember

... this is a FORUM. Anyone can take part in a thread and all opinions are pertinent to a discussion. Any American who shows disdain for how others feel about and/or view this election has blinkers on, IMO. Contrary to what you imply - it is of interest and concern for those from other countries as it affects all of us. Not just the US. Not just Americans.

 

[Jill]

Yep, anyone can say anything they choose on this internet forum. Personally I'm not putting any stock or time into these long winded posts by people who are not qualified to actually cast a vote in our upcoming election. It puzzles me though, because I myself have zero interest in Canadian politics.

I do not care what other nations think of our President or our Politics. Citizens of other nations do not know what it's like to be an American at this time. Foreign media is even more biased than our own. Most of their leaders would prefer our Nation not to be the world power that it is. Lots of ulterior motives from the leaders in other nations, and also from many of their citizens as well (immigration comes to mind).

Just how I feel on it and what I think when I see the Canadian members taking the US members to task over issues that are for us to decide.

 

[Sonya]

Jill I agree with you 100%. It may be of interest to other countries, but I don't put much stock into their skewed opinions of how/what America/Americans are about. I do wonder what they are watching on tv to derive such opinions. American media is biased enough, I can only imagine what they are seeing.

 

[tagalong]

Foreign media is even more biased than our own.

I could not disagree more. They do not have a Blue or Red agenda... they look at things from outside The Box.... which is something many Americans simply refuse to do. Also, unlike many Americans - they realize that this is important beyond the US borders.

I do wonder what they are watching on tv to derive such opinions. American media is biased enough, I can only imagine what they are seeing.

Maybe more than what the networks in the US show you. Flag-draped coffins come to mind. But as all the US networks are on satellite or cable - and thus accessible far beyond American borders, many get their info from the same sources you do - but also have outside input to add to it. Deciding that others are simply ignorant of the issues is... well, skewed - to use your words.

 

[McBunz]

I have stayed out of this until now.. As a Canadian I find your remarks completely insulting considering Canadian Soldiers are dying in Yep, anyone can say anything they choose on this internet forum. Personally I'm not putting any stock or time into these long winded posts by people who are not qualified to actually cast a vote in our upcoming election. It puzzles me though, because I myself have zero interest in Canadian politics.

I do not care what other nations think of our President or our Politics. Citizens of other nations do not know what it's like to be an American at this time. Foreign media is even more biased than our own. Most of their leaders would prefer our Nation not to be the world power that it is. Lots of ulterior motives from the leaders in other nations, and also from many of their citizens as well (immigration comes to mind).

Just how I feel on it and what I think when I see the Canadian members taking the US members to task over issues that are for us to decide.

--------------------

Whinny For Me Farm

As a Canadian I find you comments most insulting as Canadian soldiers are dying in Afghanistan. Why.......Because we seem to be joined at the hip.. We were a peace keeping nation

until we were dragged into this.. American politics affects the world not just Americans. If I thought for a moment that all Americans were as narrow minded as you seem to be I would

be anti American along with a good part of the globe..

 

[Sonya]

As a Canadian I find you comments most insulting as Canadian soldiers are dying in Afghanistan. Why.......Because we seem to be joined at the hip.. We were a peace keeping nation until we were dragged into this..

This is bringing up a whole different issue, the abortion issue was off topic from the original posters intent as it is, and I admit I had a part in that. No offense, but your own leaders put your soldiers there...not ours..Our adminstration did not decide to send your soldiers there, yours did! You can blame the U.S. all you want, but who you should be blaming, if you are unhappy, is your own administration!

American politics affects the world not just Americans. If I thought for a moment that all Americans were as narrow minded as you seem to be I would be anti American along with a good part of the globe..

No one said our politics does not effect the rest of the world...however, we do have the right to dismiss your opinions/comments if we like....(just as you do ours)....and frankly the one at the top of this post is one that I will definately be dismissing simply because of the ridiculous content.

 

[Jill]

Tag and Bunz -- It's fine if you disagree. You're very free to do so but I sincerely feel as I stated. Doesn't mean you have to agree with my opinion, but it is for sure my well thought out opinion.

Mary Lou -- good for you. All this time, I didn't realize you were also a US citizen

Sonya -- exactly correct

 

[McBunz]

Jill and Sonya... It must be nice to be so young that you see nothing but the Waving American Flag... There really is more to the world than the USA.. Where would you be without the support

of the other nations... Even the USA can only spread their soldiers so far.. What about England , Australia, New Zealand, Germany and the rest? Or is it just Canadians you have no use for.??

 

[Jill]

Please do not act like I said or feel things I do not, McBunz. What I said is that I do not care what people who are not US citizens think of our upcoming political election... I don't care who they think should win the election (no matter how many posts about it they may make on LB).

 

[Sonya]

Jill and Sonya... It must be nice to be so young that you see nothing but the Waving American Flag... There really is more to the world than the USA.. Where would you be without the supportof the other nations... Even the USA can only spread their soldiers so far.. What about England , Australia, New Zealand, Germany and the rest? Or is it just Canadians you have no use for.??

I really have no clue where this came from????

especially this part:

Or is it just Canadians you have no use for.??

SinceI've said absolutely nothing negative regarding Canada or Canada's citizens...nor has Jill that I've seen...or any country for that matter! I have absolutely no clue to what you are talking about!

If you have anger about where your soldiers are, it is definatley misdirected...you need to look at your own govt. not ours.

 

[McBunz]

Where it came from is your idea that Canadians and other nations should not have an opinion..or if they do it doesn't matter.. I really don't care who you girls vote for..

What I am saying is your lack or reguard for the opinion of others is very annoying.. It is a small world after all..