Pasture breeding questions

[ShaunaL]

This is my first year breeding with my own stallion and his first year breeding as well. He was born later in 2007 so not really 3 just yet. He has been breeding my two mares over the last week (hand-breeding mostly). Of course they came in with in a couple days of each other

I hand-bred him to the first mare once then ended up turning him out with both mares (under close supervision, of course!). He was really good with them, excited but being gentle. These are both older experienced mares and they are very "cooperative"

I put him with them because I was having outpatient surgery and wouldn't be able to tease them or hand-breed for a few days. We watched them from the house most of the time to make sure everything was fine.

We pulled the mares back out after a couple days and started hand-breeding because I was a little concerned that he was breeding at least 4 times a day (that I saw). Is this normal for pasture stallions or just the young, inexperienced ones?

He is fantastic with the mares - I'm so happy with him and his manners! However, I would imagine those breedings would have a pretty low sperm count. He's now being hand-bred to both mares. Trying to breed each mare every other day, so one mare per day. I did have to breed them both the same day twice now because I feeling up to walking the mare to his pasture to breed them on two separate days. Of course, the first mare is having the longest heat ever and is on her 10th day of standing heat

The other mare is on day 7.

I am having major surgery in 2 weeks and want to leave my two mares with him, in case they come back into heat. Plus, I feel very strongly that he will be much happier is allowed to live with a mare or two and not be alone, especially during my 4 - 6 week recovery when he will not be handled and worked with daily like he is used to. Not saying he's not happy now, he seems to be very content LOL but now he gets worked with almost daily.

So here are my questions -

~ How often do you think your pasture breeding stallions breed in a day?

~ Do you find your conception rates are lower or higher in a pasture breeding setting (I'm assuming lower??)

~ Do you find the best success with breeding one mare just one time a day?

~ At his age, is he able to breed twice in one day on occasion or are those wasted breedings? (as mentioned above, I was not feeling well enough to breed them on two days so that messed up the schedule). With him being an 2007 baby I don't want to overdo it with him or lower his conception chances by overbreeding him.

~ Assuming your pasture stallions do not breed their mares as often as he was, do you think he will settle down and only breed them less each once he gets used to having them there all the time? Of course, if someone comes in heat again it would hopefully be only one this time LOL and HOPEFULLY neither will come back in

Sorry this is so wordy but I think you guys can get the general idea

Thanks for your help

 

[minih]

~ How often do you think your pasture breeding stallions breed in a day? ??? Not really sure, as long as everyone is getting a long fine and he is not terrorrizing the mares I leave them be.

~ Do you find your conception rates are lower or higher in a pasture breeding setting (I'm assuming lower??) We turned 3 mares out with a first time stallion last year and we had three babies 11 months later within 2 weeks of each other. I think he got the job done pretty well!

We only hand breed here if we are showing the stallion (really don't like doing that, it has been a while we usually wait or take them off the show curcuit), or if he does not really want to breed. LOL I know it is hard to believe, but we have a stallion right now who is 5 this spring and will not breed a mare if they give any resisitance at all. He is such a big baby and a perfect gentleman, a little too perfect

So we are fixing to hand breed him with one this spring who says no and he doesn't. When he is in with older mares who know the ropes he gets the job done with no problems.

I really wouldn't worry about his sperm count unless you put him in with a large amount of mares and they are all in season at once. And yes, after he gets used to the mares in their with him he will slow down, at least they do here.

 

[ohmt]

The best conception rates come from pasture breeding actually! I think you're doing the right thing by hand breeding your boy though. I always hand breed a first time stallion until they get the hang of things. It teaches them very good breeding manners by doing so as well.

I would definitely not hand breed him more than once a day though. Even with my experienced, older stallions I really try to limit that. Every other day is good though and I have pretty good conception rates by doing it that way. All of my stallions have good sperm counts so every other day with most mares is plenty. I have a couple of mares that are a little more difficult to get in foal and with those ones I wait until day 5-7 (about half of my mares go 7-8 days, the other half go 10-14 days) depending on how long they usually cycle and then breed every day. I don't breed them at all until day 5-7 though. I just tease a little bit each day. Saves the stallion! Plus, almost all of my stallions won't even breed a mare until they are towards the end of their cycle. They know

That's just how I do things...of course many other people do it differently and it works great for them. This is what has worked best for me the past 10 or so years.

My grandpa always used to tell me, "what would they do in the wild?". He lived by that question and the horses were very happy. Stallions used to breed multiple mares a day in the wild and they did just fine. Of course, you've got survival of the fittest there and since a lot of minis seem to mature a bit slower than biggies, it's hard to follow that sometimes.

 

[ShaunaL]

Thank you so much for the helpful replies. I had only planned on hand-breeding him the first year, to make sure he learned good breeding manners, but sometimes life changes your plans

Actually, I kinda planned on always hand-breeding him so I would always know exact dates mares were bred. I was very anxious about turning him out with the mares, I was afraid one of them would get hurt or he wouldn't get the job done. Once I saw how great he does with them I feel better about pasture-breeding him now. Plus I now have cameras so we can always see what's going on in the pastures and mark down breeding dates.

Just wish he would SLOW DOWN a bit LOL I was just concerned because if we shouldn't hand-breed more than once a day for fear of lowering conception rates, then wouldn't the same principle apply to pasture-breeding too? I guess once he has a little experience he will be more discriminating on when to breed his mares LOL

ohmt, that makes sense to only breed after 5 days or so. With the Arabians we just always started on day 2 or 3 and bred them every other day so that's how I was doing it but your way makes perfect sense

I am just way too excited about having little Masq babies next year, I LOVE this boy! Hoping he passes on his straight legs, refinement, elegance and huge movement, and his fun personality

 

[Miniv]

We pasture breed. But what you described in regard to introducing your young stallion to breeding with the hand breeding is what we like to do too.......It teaches them MANNERS.

Our more experienced stallions tend to "save themselves" when running with several mares. They seem to know the scent of a mare who is truly ready in her heat cycle and won't waste their energy until then. I've watched the stallion approach the mare all flirty and studdy, smell her hind end, and walk away.

 

[~Amanda~]

This is very informative. Most of the books I've read only mention pasture breeding in passing and give no real details.

 

[Becky]

I pasture or 'dry lot' breed most of my mares here. Conception rates are high.

I really don't take into account how many times per day the stallion breeds as long as mares are getting in foal, it's not a big concern.

It does seem that the stallions are pretty gung ho the first day or two, but settle down some after that. Invariably, more than one mare seems to come in heat at the same time. They learn to pace themselves.

 

[Margaret]

We are a stud farm only, and I prefer to hand breed all the mares we get in here.

We currently have 4 mares in here now, and doing it this way controls how much breeding happens, and who gets bred, and how often.

This also keeps the stallion from over breeding one mare and allows for quality breeding each time.

 

[Charlotte]

This isn't answering any of your questions related to pasture breeding, but rather relating to breeding frequency.

We hand breed only. Our mature stallions do well breeding 2 mares per day. The mares get in foal. I space the breedings at 12 hours apart if possible. I 'try' not to start breeding untill several days into the mare's cycle.

It would be my preference to breed only one mare per day, but there are times when the mares don't cooperate with that plan.

With a 2 year old stallion that we are just starting we breed only every other day to give the boy a rest and time to recharge and we try to space the mares out to have at least a couple of weeks between individual mares. Usually 3 or 4 mares over the entire breeding season is tops.

Charlotte

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Conception rates are about 5% higher with pasture breeding than hand breeding. Stallions will breed upwards of 10 times a day if given the opportunity. That's just how pasture breeding works. If the mare is interested, the stallion will breed, even if its two dozen times a day. At that point he's shooting blanks though.

In my professional opinion I'm opposed to pasture breeding. I've seen enough injuries from stallions who were breeding "willing" mares to never allow a natural breeding arrangement. Yes, that's how they do it in nature, but I'm not in nature and I don't want to go through natural stallion attrition. I hand breed or do AI, exclusively.

The highest breeding EFFICIENCY is to breed once every other day, starting on the mare's third day of heat. This is best especially if your mare is prone to pooling fluid, as more ejaculate volume will increase the mare's reaction to it which increases uterine fluid, which decreases pregnancy rates.

 

[Bess Kelly]

Younger stallions are not as good as detecting the scent of the ovulations, rather than just cycles. So, "fencepost breeding"

Ma is correct, the older, experienced ones in the pasture will breed at the end of a cycle when they ovulate, to cover more mares well and save their own energy.

As to sperm count -- a healthy, normal stallion can easily recoup count, sustain quality sperm within an hr or less. I've had 14 yr old ones tested by collecting, then again in 1 hr, again in a 2nd hr. In all cases he was more than fine. In fact like 98% of first collection. The sperm will die if it lies in the stallion, so the very first ejac for the year may be less potent than you will find during active use. Young ones, if over enthusiastic, can cause more concerns with their weight, not eating, developing bad manners, than actual sperm issues from use.......then you have health concerns.

Young stallions, IMO, need to learn manners -- hand breeding sure helps!

And, know your mares -- behaviours can be an issue.

I'm sure Nathan will have some real input, if he reads this.

 

[FoRebel]

Not sure how many times our stud breeds when they're in the pasture since I don't keep a continuous watch on him. But I will say that with the pasture breeding we have 3 out of 3 mares due SOON! So he must've gotten them on their first cycle. WE hand bred him the first year we had him and he didn't settle the one that we hand bred him to so from then on, we've only pasture bred so that he can get his job done when he feels like it's the appropriate time.

The only one I will hand breed with now is our donkey jack. We tried to pasture breed him this last summer and our jenny is open. So I'm hoping that hand breeding will get us our donkey foal.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I am in a similar position now, though mine is due to general decrepitude, so I compromise.

I do controlled natural breeding.

I hand breed the first day, then put a mare in with the stallion and leave her there until she goes off heat. Then she comes out.

She does not go back until she is due round, and I bring the stallion to her to test her.

If she has returned you will know right away, with this method, whereas if she is in the pasture all the time, with the stallion, you may well never actually see them breed.

After the novelty has worn off the colt will settle down, but I would advise you to take him out and handle him often, just to let him know that you are still in charge.

I remember my first Miniature stallion was bought form a friend, eleven years old and with many, many children to his name.

His previous owner had never seen him breed a mare!

He was a canny lad, he would breed in hand, no problem, but he would not actually breed a mare till she was ovulating, and I was not used to that, so we both had to adjust.

I did end up doing CNB with him, too, as he was happiest out with his ladies.

Once the mares are set, BTW, I do leave them with the stallion, so by the end of the year he can have ten or twelve mares and foals out with him, which he loves, and, I have to admit, I do like watching the family group!

I too have found that a stallions fertility is actually encouraged (if that is the right word!) by breeding, Rabbit, in his prime, could cover and set up to five mares a day, although I would not say this was the norm. Two mares a day he was fine with, three he could manage, no problem, four was pushing it and five he managed to do as a favour to me (they did get in foal, BTW) I never tested his fertility at each stage though (except by the result) that is really interesting.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Unfortunately that's incorrect rabbit

Yes, you can collect a stud twice in two hours, but the point of the hour is to allow their libido to recharge, not their testicular contents. A single ejaculate contains approximately 5-10 billion spermatozoa. The recharge rate of the testicles depends DIRECTLY on the testicular size (in grams). It is most efficient, ie the most number of sperm ejaculated, if a stallion is collected/bred once every two days. You will not get more sperm by collecting twice a day, or more.

Ideally, two collections in an hour will result in removing the stored cells and allowing fresh cells to be collected in the second ejaculate. Normally the numbers will be half of the first ejaculate. In four ejaculates the stallion can ejaculate as few as a billion cells, or less. Obviously, these numbers are for a mature stallion.... a young horse will have far fewer.

Now, there are exceptions, but they are pathological issues, ie "Accumulators". Sperm are stored in the epididymis, the structure that feels like its attached to the testicle. This separate organ matures and stores the sperm. Normally, males will "flush" extra cells through the pipe system and out in the urine. An Accumulator does not... they collect all their cells. This results in HUGE numbers of cells when they ejaculate (for a stallion, sometimes more than 30 billion!). However, more than 95% are dead! The epididymis can only fit so many cells, and too many just crushes and damages the sperm. This type of animal requires much more sexual activity to flush out the dead cells and allow fresh sperm to exit the body. Some of these horses need to be collected two or three times a day to get any motile cells. This type of horse can benefit dramatically from pasture breeding, because he'll breed enough to flush out the dead cells

 

[Ellen]

We do all breeding in hand. Dates are more certain, less injuries and well...just less issues. I was reading an article recently that it is no longer true that conception rates are higher when pasture breeding. Simply because more often then not pastures are crowded and the stallion will service onlt the mares he prefers.

This article stated that a stallion needed 40 acres to run with his herd and service them adequately. It makes sense to me, but I had never heard it. I agree with Nathan and that is the protocol we follow.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

It is true that if there is a dominant mare it is very possible she will restrict the stallion's activities, even if she's not in heat, or even if she's pregnant. As far as stallion preference, yes that definitely exists, but I'm not sure if it would really apply to this situation if the herd is homogeneous, or close to. Most preferences are in terms of color.

 

[Ellen]

Now, I certainly agree with color preference. We have had a stallion that only wanted to breed solids. Finally after several years and much trickery, he learned they were kinda cute! And our pasture has a geriatric mare that is very dominant and will force a heat to distract the stallion. I totally agree with you!

 

[ShaunaL]

Thank you everyone, you have all been incredibly helpful! Some very thought-provoking posts here. I never even considered pasture breeding him before, the plan was always to hand-breed. But things change and I am concerned that with my upcoming surgery/long recovery I won't be able to tease the mares to see if they come back in. At least if they are with him they will have a chance to be rebred. After all the posts I do feel that in the future my preference will be to hand-breed him, as originally planned. I only breed for one to two foals a year and I really need them early in the year so efficiency is key here

He's a very good boy Rabbit, I have worked with him almost daily since I bought him as a yearling and, although fiery, he is very well-behaved. He will be on his own for about a month though, my husband and various friends will feed/water/monitor but they won't be working with him. Maybe being with the mares will keep his mind busy until I'm back on my feet.

Thank you again to all of you, this post is very informative! Please continue to add to it if anyone has any insights/advice/tips!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Unfortunately that's incorrect rabbit

Yes, you can collect a stud twice in two hours, but the point of the hour is to allow their libido to recharge, not their testicular contents. A single ejaculate contains approximately 5-10 billion spermatozoa. The recharge rate of the testicles depends DIRECTLY on the testicular size (in grams). It is most efficient, ie the most number of sperm ejaculated, if a stallion is collected/bred once every two days. You will not get more sperm by collecting twice a day, or more.

Not at all sure what you are disagreeing with, Nathan, perhaps you should read my post again as I did not mention "collecting" from my stallion??

Still, a month is a long time for him to be left to his own resources at this young an age, but, honestly, Shauna, what else can you do?

I am not overly excited by running my stallion, but I do want some foals, and I am not going to get them with him in his stall and me unable to handle him! You are in a similar position, so I would just go for it!

The position you are in, he sounds as if he knows what he is doing, the worst would be that you would have to do a bit of discipline work when you are able, and if half the mares get in foal that is still more than you will be able to breed in hand....I say go ahead, he is going to be watched and cared for, leave a book, and a pen, in a polythene bag by the gate and get anyone who passes and sees a mare being bred to write it down!!

Good Luck with the op, BTW