Pawing

[Marsha Cassada]

One of the things I'm working on with my new driving horse is teaching him to stand patiently when I stop to talk to neighbors. He stands for a minute, then fidgets and even paws.

So, when the impatient pawing starts, my instinctive reaction is to give the Whoa/stand cue, perhaps over-correcting. I was thinking about it yesterday, and wondering if it were better to ask him to back a few steps, or to drive in a circle?

I can see that I need to begin practicing while we are out on our drives, stopping for a full minute or more. But I still think there must be a better way than the quick jerks on the bit.

He is very quiet during harnessing and stands tied nicely. He is not a "pawer".

What are some ideas to train him to stand quietly? If we go to a show he will need to learn this.

ps When I've gone to shows, I find that my horses stand quietly in the line. Being with the other horses seems steadying. This horse might stand quietly also if another horse were with me. But he needs to learn to stand quietly all by himself.

 

[paintponylvr]

That can be a difficult one...

First talk to your neighbors - ask if they'll help w/ your training. I would start w/ working your horse first - so he's a little tired and ready for a "brake". Then go "visit" the neighbor. when you're there, monitor your horse, when he starts getting "fidget-y", pick up your reins/lines and ask him to step out. Start out at a brisk walk and work up into a trot if necessary.

********** Edit to add**********

Sorry Marsha - didn't finish the thought/post.

Enlist your neighbors (even strangers?) and family (when they visit?) to help. Let them know that you are working on training your horse, not offending them with "leaving" or taking off to work him. You aren't being rude. After you have your driving horse a little tired, you stop to visit with the "neighbor". If your horse gets fidgety/paws, calmly ask him to move off and work. Work him a bit hard - asking for transitions, speed changes and changes of direction. Maybe get him breathing heavy. Then stop again to "visit" your neighbor. Keep repeating. Keep calm while doing so. I have not yet used this technique for driving horses (well, actually I have - but not consistently) BUT I have with riding horses and it works VERY WELL. You can even do it with a "target" or an "object". Park something in a safe place (rather than your neighbor) to start with. Use that as the "brake" point = you stop, maybe check your phone, get a drink, even get out of the cart and get back in. Again, when he gets "fidgety", move off to work. He'll soon appreciate the "brake" and you'll find less and less fidgeting. Then switch the "brake" object to something else. Then enlist your neighbor or somebody to talk to - again letting them know what you are trying to accomplish ahead of time so that they are "on board" with what you are doing and don't get offended when you pick up your lines and move your horse off.

This also works for getting used to a scary place or a scary object - when can't drive by it calmly, you move off a bit and work. Then go back by the object and if acting "silly" or spooky - repeat. When your horse realizes this will become a permanent training technique, he'll be thinking "O - IF I get "silly", I will move away but work my 'hiney off... Maybe I should just go on by this - she's not upset or nervous".... The problem is finding a place to SAFELY work them when you are driving when you encounter that "scary" thing...

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Thanks for the suggestions. I believe that is the best way, asking him to do work so that standing still is the reward. Not sure my neighbors would appreciate being part of the training process, however (I did think of asking them to help me). I will continue to work on this when we are out and about by ourselves.

Even my seasoned driving horse will occasionally get fidgety when I stop to chat.

I know the ideal is the horse to have a perfect "stand" before being hitched. But while we can have the perfect horse, not all of us are perfect trainers, so we have to work with who we are.

 

[paintponylvr]

If I remember right, your guy is already pretty experienced driver. It won't take him long to figure this out - and then you can practice it until you get him to stand quietly when at events, too.

Yes, mine are quieter - with their stablemates. I have one that it doesn't matter if there are others around or not - and due to her age and the fact that she is now completely blind in her left eye and now losing sight in her right eye, I'm willing to give her a lot of leeway. She is quiet with two different driving partners as a pair, so that is how I drive her now. I believe I will also still be able to use her as a 3 abreast w/ both of those two partners - and that is something we will be doing this spring/summer.

 

[paintponylvr]

I know the ideal is the horse to have a perfect "stand" before being hitched. But while we can have the perfect horse, not all of us are perfect trainers, so we have to work with who we are.

Yea, well, me neither!! All of mine have some area that we are working on and last year did very little handling/driving so --- mine all seem to have forgot stuff! It's amazing...

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Actually this is my new driving horse, just learning. He's doing pretty well for a newbie.

Today we worked on a quiet stand but couldn't get past about 20 seconds. He even tried something new--rearing a little.

We went about 2 1/2 miles; it's a little hard on him with all his winter hair--it's 70 today. But it's supposed to be 13 in two days. Very pleased with the way he is learning to use his hind end for impulsion.

I've been using an open bridle, but I think I will use the blinders next time.

Some traffic passed us and he did well with that, but there was a new sign in a neighbor's yard and that was just too scary to pass. I had to get out and lead him past that. I think if I could go with another driver he would do a lot better, but he has to learn to work alone--just like me.

I've asked my husband to shred the grass area by the house so I can set up the cones there and work on figure 8's.

I think all this is typical of "two steps forward three steps back" in training!

 

[Marsha Cassada]

He is doing much better. We are working on stopping and standing quietly during our drives. I put the blinders on him last time and I think he does better. Less distraction, I suppose.

 

[paintponylvr]

I'm going to have my round pen done by Sunday, I think!! Have all the harness (s) in our new shop - about a qtr mile away from where the horses are groomed. If get the roundpen done, won't be workingon cleaning out the stall portion that will have the harness(s) in it yet. The carts are already in the "stall"... as are the buckets and tie straps, loads of halters/lead ropes, fencing and fencing tools...

After that - I MIGHT be able to start working ponies in harness?? Maybe in April or May or June? NICE to have a new place but man this is a pain to work around working full time, caring for the critters, dealing w/ problems w/ the house (not new!) and still putting up fencing/storage areas... Just dreaming of when I can work ponies - while doing the work necessary to get where I want to be!

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I met with a trainer this week. After working with Ranger, she suggested that some of his behavior is left over from being a stallion. She said since he has been gelded less than a year and was a stallion for 6 years, it will take time for him to unlearn some behaviors; she gave me some pointers about working with a stallion. Without hormones, the behavior will change and I have to do my part by being consistent and patient. We had a great afternoon working with horses!

 

[paintponylvr]

awesome!

Can you go into detail about those exercises? They may be good for me to know as I work with 2 stallions in driving...

 

[Marsha Cassada]

She makes sure he is in the proper position by her side at all times, using her body and whip to cue him into position. This is second nature to her, so she is super consistent. (I am poor at this; when I take him out for a training session, I ask him to do this, but I am not consistent requiring it from him 100% of the time.) She worked with him at the fence line of the horse he was acting up with, until she had him totally focused on her and not paying attention to the other horse. She used her own whip; it seemed to have a really flexible tip, and was about the length of a dressage whip.

While driving, she had him weaving back and forth across the road, always engaging him and keeping his mind occupied. It was all very subtle but Ranger didn't have a moment to himself to let his mind wander.

I cannot explain it exactly; she is just a natural trainer. She has also trained her goats to do tricks, and even trains birds.

She complimented me on getting him started in harness well, but she knows my focus limitations!

She used to show her AMHA miniature horse, but now is legally blind with macular degeneration. She cannot drive, or even see well enough to groom for showing anymore.

Sometimes I get annoyed, as I want to drive for pleasure, as a friend, and she cannot help but teach, so I feel as though I'm at a lecture! But I try to be humble and listen.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

He is doing so much better! He actually gave a relaxed sigh today while stopped. I haven't asked for a very long whoa/stand yet, less than a minute, but he is not pawing any more. Experience and confidence. Transitions better. Still some head tossing, but I'm pleased with his progress.

 

[paintponylvr]

NICE!!

 

[Marsha Cassada]

He is doing well. No more pawing or head shaking. We're still having trouble with a quiet "stand", but he's getting better.

Last time we passed a pasture with a herd of cows. No way was he going past them. I had to get out and ground drive him past. We went back and forth, ground driving, until he settled, then went on. On the way back, the cows were still there and he went past on his own, though nervously. I think I was fortunate that the cows all stood calmly, just watching us. If they had stampeded I'm not sure what he would have done.

Today we went the same way, but unfortunately the cows were not there. I was hoping for another cow-lesson. He did have to go through some water, and did all right.

 

[paintponylvr]

Yay!

On the "cow thing" - we had cows just down the road from us. The ponies could hear them all the time. We could occasionally smell them (the ponies may have all the time as well since have better "sniffers" then we do). We regularly drove and/or rode past them.

YET, I still had ponies (and a couple of riding horses) that would freak out when the cows would move when we went past. It didn't matter if they moved towards us or away from us. The response was ... "OMG - it's gonna get me. I didn't know it was "real"" ... and think "electrified" horse/pony. Had one young mare - her hair would actually "poof" out when she got that tense. Truly like she'd stuck the proverbial finger/screwdriver in the light socket. It was no joke and I spent many LONG hours just walking back and forth along that particular section of road ground driving. To be honest, I quit driving her that direction and never drove her alone in an area I thought we might encounter cattle (funny - Llamas never bothered her and no - she didn't live with them). She did better driving as a pair w/ a solid, nonchalant driving partner... some will say that was wrong but for me, in our situation, it was just smart living ...

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I agree. We have to know our horses and know what is safe. If I find that going by the cows is going to be dangerous for me, we will go another way.

He was extremely reactive to the cows. I am not interested in proving anything; if I don't feel comfortable in a situation I am old enough to know it. We are out for pleasure, and will continue working on trust and cooperation at our own pace.

It seems odd to be afraid of cows, as they are prey animals. The horse should not feel a threat from them.

A farmer a couple of miles away used to raise buffalo. I could never get my avatar horse to go down that road, even though the buffalo were no where in sight. The farmer sold the buffalo, and now Dapper Dan goes down the road just fine.