I'm going to ad my two cents and say that like leather so much better than beta or biothane. I purchased a harness this fall (it was beta or bio, forgive me for not remembering) and I find it stiff and the headstall very clunky looking compared to my leather harness. It does not have that nice pliable feel that good leather has. That's just my preference, other people I know love theirs.
Picking a harness
- Thread starter PintoPalLover
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PintoPalLover
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I do agree that leather is special
And I appreciate all the two cents anybody wants to give 
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I started out with the pleasure harness (black) from Ozark and was very happy with it. I then purchased 3 of their carriage harnesses and sold the pleasure harness.
Minimor, I was looking at the carriage harness from Ozark and really liked the look of it. What did you favor from the carriage harness verses the pleasure? The quote from the Amish harness maker was about the price of the carriage harness.
Minimor, I was looking at the carriage harness from Ozark and really liked the look of it. What did you favor from the carriage harness verses the pleasure? The quote from the Amish harness maker was about the price of the carriage harness.
PintoPalLover
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I know you didn't ask me but I'll give my opinion anyway
I think the Carriage harness from Ozark has a few nice upgraded features (compared to their starter harnesses), such as the shaped breast collar. The leather looks nice, too. If you're fine with black and a little higher of a price I think it's a good option.
Oh that is fine PintoPalLover! Do you like the v shaped breast collar would be suitable for just starting? I'm thinking for the horse. Also, do you know if you need to use an overcheck for the AMHA/AMHR shows? Which do you use the sidecheck or the overcheck?I know you didn't ask me but I'll give my opinion anywayI think the Carriage harness from Ozark has a few nice upgraded features (compared to their starter harnesses), such as the shaped breast collar. The leather looks nice, too. If you're fine with black and a little higher of a price I think it's a good option.
PintoPalLover
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The v shaped breast collar is just for comfort so I'm sure it's fine for just starting. I don't believe it matters whether or not you use a overcheck or sidecheck as far as rules (It would probably say if you looked it up in the rulebooks), but I do think it's a requirement to use one or the other for AMHA and/or AMHR. From everything I've heard , the sidecheck is prefered for being nice to the horse though (currently , I don't use one at all.)
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TICA - You asked about using a wrap strap or a buckle down over girth. This can make a BIG difference! If you're only going to drive in a ring and planning to show in breed shows only a wrap strap is what you want. The wrap strap basically ties the shafts to the horse's sides. This can allow the horse to pull the cart with his back and can eliminate the need for a breeching. You can tell the horse is pulling with his back when the traces are flapping loosely.
IF you plan to drive outside a ring, down the road, over hill and dale, PLEASE use a buckle down over girth with an open tug. The horse will be able to pull all the weight of the cart with his chest using the breastcollar. The open tug will allow the shafts to "float" meaning as you go over bumps the shafts will go up and down, not jarring the horse or you. The over girth should never be tighter than the girth or they can rub the horse's belly raw. I hope you can see how the shaft can move in the tug in this picture.
jventresca, Thanks so much for the insights
IF you plan to drive outside a ring, down the road, over hill and dale, PLEASE use a buckle down over girth with an open tug. The horse will be able to pull all the weight of the cart with his chest using the breastcollar. The open tug will allow the shafts to "float" meaning as you go over bumps the shafts will go up and down, not jarring the horse or you. The over girth should never be tighter than the girth or they can rub the horse's belly raw. I hope you can see how the shaft can move in the tug in this picture.
jventresca, Thanks so much for the insights
Minimor
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The carriage harness is a step up in quality over the pleasure harness --it has roller buckles (always an indicator of quality! Buckles are the first thing i check when I look at a harness!) and overall is just nicer quality. And yes, the shaped breast collar is nice to have. Breech in is better--it has the split strap, the pleasure harness does not.
Side check and over check do different things. Some driving bridles do not come with side check rings. All trainers have their own opinions about checks. You will have to weigh everything and make your own choices--usually through trial and error!
A check is required in AMHA. Also blinders are required.
Whatever harness you purchase, make sure everything fits properly! If you are not sure, take pictures and send them to the seller and ask. I know for sure that Ozark will work with you, and I'm sure most other companies will also.
A check is required in AMHA. Also blinders are required.
Whatever harness you purchase, make sure everything fits properly! If you are not sure, take pictures and send them to the seller and ask. I know for sure that Ozark will work with you, and I'm sure most other companies will also.
Strangeaddiction
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Ill add my personal opinon on bio vs leather. I personally will never use bio/beta over leather because leather can and will break. Now that might seem backwards but if you get in a bad position, horse spooks, flips etc (goodness forbid that happen, I personally have never been in that position, but have seen it numerous times) the leather will break causing less havoc.....bio will NOT break and can cause more damage to your cart/horse etc..... Just like nylon halters on horses turned out is not a good idea unless there are leather break-aways on it.... Just my personal opinion. Bio is definitely more low maintenance as you can just hose it down.
PintoPalLover
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Got a email last night saying the harness would ship in a week, the manufacter got a batch of leather he didn't like the quality of (why it's gonna take more like 5 - 6 weeks inside of 3 to 4).
Strangeaddiction, that's why I was told to always use leather , too. Thanks for your opinion !
Strangeaddiction, that's why I was told to always use leather , too. Thanks for your opinion !
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After my experience with my sister last week when her green horse had a bucking fit and twizzled himself into a pretzel: the leather sort of stretched, or gave a little. We were able to pull the straps out of the buckles. No harm done. Would bio have that give? Neither of us had a knife, as I was in the sulky and not my cart with the toolbox.
PintoPalLover
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Well, since nobody with personal bio experience has gotten on here , I'll give my opinion
I think at that point bio would probably have a little give but not as much a leather does. I didn't think about taking a knife with when you drive , but it is a good idea.
And Happy Thanksgiving everyone
And Happy Thanksgiving everyone
I agree, it might give a little but not much. One of the "selling points" on the bio/beta harness I bought was that it "would not stretch" like leather. I never gave it much thought one way or the other at the time but after reading Marsha's post, I would feel safer with leather. I am looking now for another harness as the bio one has been a thorn in my side (fit issues that seller won't resolve) and it won't be bio.
Peggy Porter
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LOVE my beta harnesses! Make sure you buy a good quality harness. No conway buckles, no rivets.
I have one incident to share. My mini was wearing a leather bridle. I had unhitched him and handed him off to someone to hold. He dropped his head to graze, and when he lifted it up he caught the throat latch of the bridle on the step of my carriage. He panicked and dragged the carriage a few feet before I got to him. This is a 250 lb carriage, dragged with a 1/4" wide leather strap. It stretched out slightly, but didn't break. I always carry a knife in my pocket, not on the carriage. I don't want anything to break, if I have to cut it I'm prepared.
I have one incident to share. My mini was wearing a leather bridle. I had unhitched him and handed him off to someone to hold. He dropped his head to graze, and when he lifted it up he caught the throat latch of the bridle on the step of my carriage. He panicked and dragged the carriage a few feet before I got to him. This is a 250 lb carriage, dragged with a 1/4" wide leather strap. It stretched out slightly, but didn't break. I always carry a knife in my pocket, not on the carriage. I don't want anything to break, if I have to cut it I'm prepared.
MajorClementine
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I am okay with beta or bio harnesses. However, leather collars and leather headstalls even if the rest of the tack is synthetic. Synthetic headstalls tend to rub sores (behind the ears especially). The synthetic is easy to clean and care for.
I have the Ozark pleasure in black and am upgrading to a comfy fit after visiting the family in Iowa who makes them. I already have the deluxe deep v breast collar and it's really made a difference. I got the black leather padding because I like the leather against the horse. Also I'm having a leather headstall made.
I have the Ozark pleasure in black and am upgrading to a comfy fit after visiting the family in Iowa who makes them. I already have the deluxe deep v breast collar and it's really made a difference. I got the black leather padding because I like the leather against the horse. Also I'm having a leather headstall made.
paintponylvr
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I, too, can give some opinions. I have not used all types of harness but have had exposure to many in training and while attending events. I've asked questions of folks at many events - plow days w/ pleasure and work harness; CDE's; carriage driving classes at breed shows; even asking questions of many AMHR/ASPC & Hackney owners as long ago as the 80's & 90's.
I got a Hackney pony mare in 97 that came with a leather, nylon & cord training harness and jog cart and a leather show harness and Jerald show cart. Both were minus the breeching and worked with wrap straps to pull the cart more from the gig saddle then from the breast collar. When in a wreck with a young mare on her 3rd hitching (hit a ground wasp nest and it was UGLY) - none of the leather broke and I lost my pocket knife during the wild, runaway ride. We ended up in a heap with her legs in many places they shouldn't have been though no breaks of anything. Parts I wish had stretched had not and getting her loose, especially w/ how much I was shaking and the reaction I was having to wasp stings, was difficult. Time stood still - have no idea how long it took. May have been hours; may have been minutes (prob in-between - our young daughters DID go 2 miles up the road to get help - I was mostly done with getting her freed by the time it arrived). Eventually got the cart and her upright and then fully unhooked. She had scrapes (probably some bruises), lots of wasp stings but no major injuries. She had more damage to her young mind - I was not able to get her driving again - both of us were scared "spitless", but she did go on to become a wonderful little hunter/jumper and from what I understand is still packing young riders. I was able to go back to driving both her sire and her dam, but easily gave it up for years when kids wanted to go on riding and couldn't afford to do both... Sold the show equipment and "buried" the training gear... Loaned out my training cart for a couple of years as well...
Years later in 2009, I was so broke when I started driving, that I took used hay string (from large round bales), washed it, braided it and used that for starting our driving ponies. Once I had gotten over my own fear - both with lessons w/ other horses and ponies - and with starting our own (I had continued using ground driving for starting riding ponies), and we knew that I'd continue with driving, I started investing in harness. I also went to Draft horse driving events in our local areas and CDE's in Southern Pines, other driving events around NC. During all of this I used various types of nylon, bio/beta and leather and chain/rope.
In all harness, there are quality levels for all types and in all materials from leather to bio. I have found some will break and some will stretch BUT in all cases of the types I've used and looked at there have been incidents where it has broken when least expected or wanted and other times when it hasn't broken and could not be cut easily w/ any type of knife.
I chose to go with bio AND beta harness (they are different). I have issues with time and tack storage that make leather a PITA to take care of. I love the bio and beta for easy cleaning. Just as in leather, bio/beta has break and stretch points. The higher the quality of material - even single layers - the less likely to break or stretch. The more layers - the tougher it is to break, stretch OR cut. Lower end bio/beta, just as in leather and nylon, have large clunky bridles that are difficult to fit. The higher end products are every bit as nice as the leather can be. Leather & nylon bridles can also be large and clunky. Some of the new beta lines are just as "alive" as a good set of leather ones - I don't have any of those. Some are just as "slick" as leather when driving (or riding) in the rain!
Just as in riding, I move my lines constantly while adjusting to what I'm asking our ponies to do. I move my hands, but use the slide and take up methods much more. I hate hand loops attached - may work OK in the breed ring (haven't shown that way - doubt that I'd use hand loops, though). I think driving lines with strips sewn thru the ends like on an english or dressage bridle rein, would work wonderfully in the rain. But have neither seen nor tried that myself - just think it. The rubber grips of the bio/beta are really nice on cross country riding reins, bet they would be on driving lines as well - again I don't know since I haven't tried them myself.
And those FIRST two haystring braided harness (made in 2009 & 2010) are still in use for starting the youngsters. They take a beating and continue to work well. I've had to redo both driving lines (left them hanging on the round pen & young ponies chewed parts of them up) and the one set of single layer traces which wore out on both ends with some of the wild rodeos we had when first hooking to objects. I've replaced both the felt/nylon training surcingles I had and need to replace them again this year (3rd time).
I got a Hackney pony mare in 97 that came with a leather, nylon & cord training harness and jog cart and a leather show harness and Jerald show cart. Both were minus the breeching and worked with wrap straps to pull the cart more from the gig saddle then from the breast collar. When in a wreck with a young mare on her 3rd hitching (hit a ground wasp nest and it was UGLY) - none of the leather broke and I lost my pocket knife during the wild, runaway ride. We ended up in a heap with her legs in many places they shouldn't have been though no breaks of anything. Parts I wish had stretched had not and getting her loose, especially w/ how much I was shaking and the reaction I was having to wasp stings, was difficult. Time stood still - have no idea how long it took. May have been hours; may have been minutes (prob in-between - our young daughters DID go 2 miles up the road to get help - I was mostly done with getting her freed by the time it arrived). Eventually got the cart and her upright and then fully unhooked. She had scrapes (probably some bruises), lots of wasp stings but no major injuries. She had more damage to her young mind - I was not able to get her driving again - both of us were scared "spitless", but she did go on to become a wonderful little hunter/jumper and from what I understand is still packing young riders. I was able to go back to driving both her sire and her dam, but easily gave it up for years when kids wanted to go on riding and couldn't afford to do both... Sold the show equipment and "buried" the training gear... Loaned out my training cart for a couple of years as well...
Years later in 2009, I was so broke when I started driving, that I took used hay string (from large round bales), washed it, braided it and used that for starting our driving ponies. Once I had gotten over my own fear - both with lessons w/ other horses and ponies - and with starting our own (I had continued using ground driving for starting riding ponies), and we knew that I'd continue with driving, I started investing in harness. I also went to Draft horse driving events in our local areas and CDE's in Southern Pines, other driving events around NC. During all of this I used various types of nylon, bio/beta and leather and chain/rope.
In all harness, there are quality levels for all types and in all materials from leather to bio. I have found some will break and some will stretch BUT in all cases of the types I've used and looked at there have been incidents where it has broken when least expected or wanted and other times when it hasn't broken and could not be cut easily w/ any type of knife.
I chose to go with bio AND beta harness (they are different). I have issues with time and tack storage that make leather a PITA to take care of. I love the bio and beta for easy cleaning. Just as in leather, bio/beta has break and stretch points. The higher the quality of material - even single layers - the less likely to break or stretch. The more layers - the tougher it is to break, stretch OR cut. Lower end bio/beta, just as in leather and nylon, have large clunky bridles that are difficult to fit. The higher end products are every bit as nice as the leather can be. Leather & nylon bridles can also be large and clunky. Some of the new beta lines are just as "alive" as a good set of leather ones - I don't have any of those. Some are just as "slick" as leather when driving (or riding) in the rain!
Just as in riding, I move my lines constantly while adjusting to what I'm asking our ponies to do. I move my hands, but use the slide and take up methods much more. I hate hand loops attached - may work OK in the breed ring (haven't shown that way - doubt that I'd use hand loops, though). I think driving lines with strips sewn thru the ends like on an english or dressage bridle rein, would work wonderfully in the rain. But have neither seen nor tried that myself - just think it. The rubber grips of the bio/beta are really nice on cross country riding reins, bet they would be on driving lines as well - again I don't know since I haven't tried them myself.
And those FIRST two haystring braided harness (made in 2009 & 2010) are still in use for starting the youngsters. They take a beating and continue to work well. I've had to redo both driving lines (left them hanging on the round pen & young ponies chewed parts of them up) and the one set of single layer traces which wore out on both ends with some of the wild rodeos we had when first hooking to objects. I've replaced both the felt/nylon training surcingles I had and need to replace them again this year (3rd time).
PintoPalLover
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Thanks for all the opinions ,nice to hear a different side of things . I still love my leather , but I can see some of the advantages of bio/beta, too. I hadn't thought about checking buckle types for the quality of the harness much, but that totally makes sense. Keep the opinions coming
jventresca
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Another note about buckles - If you're getting brass ask for stainless steel tongues in your buckles for any buckle under stress. Brass is very soft and will bend and break. I agree with No Conways and roller buckles wherever you will be tightening a strap, i.e. girth. It's not so important where the buckle is for size adjustment, i.e. cheekpiece.
I'd like to chime in about checks. Each type has a specific use. You have to decide what style you need for the type of driving you want to do. AMHR and AMHA both require a check, either sidecheck or overcheck. I don't care for overchecks but they are in use for certain types of driving like Roadster. I drive American Driving Society style most of the time so I drive without a check. I use a sidecheck for training purposes. I'm always trying to get a horse to go round and an overcheck would prevent that.
I'd like to chime in about checks. Each type has a specific use. You have to decide what style you need for the type of driving you want to do. AMHR and AMHA both require a check, either sidecheck or overcheck. I don't care for overchecks but they are in use for certain types of driving like Roadster. I drive American Driving Society style most of the time so I drive without a check. I use a sidecheck for training purposes. I'm always trying to get a horse to go round and an overcheck would prevent that.
