Present System for Judging 'R' Nationals

[Boinky]

I'm not sure that everyone is really complaining about the actual type of tabulation.. as the lack of knowlege of HOW IT WORKS... I would love to see the AMHR have more indepth info on how the scores are tallied and work. i go to nationals every year with no expectations and usually come home with nothing, which is fine to me, go to have fun and meet people and see what is happening in the mini world and that's what we do.. BUT i still feel this was the most political year i've seen so far.. take it as you will (whiner or not a whiner...i know for a fact many other people have felt this way). Again i think it would be nice for the AMHR to put out more info on their scoring so the masses will understand how it's being scored and i think people would feel less "cheated" or less "in the dark".

I also don't understand why they do not allow people to get copies of the judges card books. We asked if we could photo copy them and they said no. personally they'd probably make a killing if they put a coin op photo copier out there and let people copy the cards. I'm not sure the reasoning and the ladies in the office didn't either but it would make the cards more accessible to the masses to look at later. It also means a lot to those of us that made the judges cards but may not have gotten a ribbon ect. I also wasn't able to look at the stake classes cards since the stakes got done late and the cards were not in..then the next morning we were up and packing as everyone had to be out by noon..not even sure they had them in the office that morning?? Heck even if they'd put the cards on a sight Online it would be helpful to anyone interested later one (such as in this case where people are questioning how scores worked).

 

[ClickMini]

I had the same issue last year, and Flirt missed out on a stakes placing I felt. I went out and researched it, and posted this after Nationals last year:

http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.ph...mp;#entry883661

There is a link on that post to the explanation for the scoring system. Hope it helps! I thought it was a pretty thorough explanation.

 

[palsminihorses]

I used to show big appaloosas, and at their National and World Shows there would be 5 judges. After all the judge's cards were turned in, each judge would stand out in the arena. His/Her placings would be called out. The horses would line up in front of each judge from 1st to 10th place. This took a lot of extra time, but it was very easy to see the differences. The 1st place horse under judge A might be the 6th place horse under judge B. The high and low score for each horse was thrown out. I might add that there were a lot 'boos' from the crowd when a judge was way off from the others.

Pam C.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Only two brief thoughts:

1) If a horse places 1st, 4th, 6th and is given 4th or 5th, that seems fair to me as most of the judges gave the horse a lower placing. He was given the average placing.

2) I competed at the Model Horse Nationals multiple times and they made a modification to their scoring system that was very popular to help mitigate those unavoidably crazy results. In order for a horse to win a National Championship, it had to be first on at least one judge's card. If it was not, it was bumped to Reserve Champion and the horse with the next highest score and a 1st won. It's still not perfect, but it made everyone feel a little better about that champion.

Edited to add: Okay, one more thought! (Can't resist. *LOL*) What if that one judge who was different was an exceptionally good judge? Do we really want to throw out a progressive person who maybe is trying to change things for the better or is - for example - refusing to put the Big Names first when perhaps they didn't have the best horse in that class? Those are only hypothetical situations but I'm not sure automatically throwing out the one different judge is necessarily a good thing for the breed although it does mess with the averages.

Leia

 

[Minimor]

Okay, one more thought! (Can't resist. *LOL*) What if that one judge who was different was an exceptionally good judge? Do we really want to throw out a progressive person who maybe is trying to change things for the better or is - for example - refusing to put the Big Names first when perhaps they didn't have the best horse in that class? Those are only hypothetical situations but I'm not sure automatically throwing out the one different judge is necessarily a good thing for the breed although it does mess with the averages.

I was sort of thinking the same thing. It could be quite possible to have two judges who like to judge handlers as well as horses, while the third judge absolutely refuses to care who is handling the horse, and he looks only at the horse...and he could be the best conformation judge of the three. So if his placings are quite different from the other two, does that really make him wrong?? Does that make him worthy of being BOO'd?? Or maybe he's the guy that likes the 'classic Mini'....no, foundation Mini as has been discussed in another thread or two...and won't place Shetland types, while the other two judges are wanting to place the Shetland type anytime they can--does that make him wrong? Or does he just like something different?

 

[MiniHunterHorseFan]

I'm not exactly sure on how our AMHR system works now but to me the most logical explanation would be to tally up the three scores for each horse and divide it by 3. That number would be the placing for the horses. In case of a tie, if the call judge's number was highest for one horse than the horse that it was tied with, that horse would place higher, bumping the second one down a place.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

2) I competed at the Model Horse Nationals multiple times and they made a modification to their scoring system that was very popular to help mitigate those unavoidably crazy results. In order for a horse to win a National Championship, it had to be first on at least one judge's card. If it was not, it was bumped to Reserve Champion and the horse with the next highest score and a 1st won. It's still not perfect, but it made everyone feel a little better about that champion.

Leia

Sometimes this doesn't work, either. I also showed at NAN many times, and the one year I got a Reserve Champion with 21 points. No firsts, though. The horse that went Grand had 12 points.... TWELVE. So that meant he was first under one judge, and TENTH twice, or NINTH once. AH, well. That's one reason I don't show at NAN anymore (the other being the refusal to split the Decorators, Woodgrains and Vintage Glossies into their own classes.)

Lucy

 

[MiLo Minis]

I also would like to know the " one" judge that people are talking about - Also, will he have his job next year? If he was that unfair I sure hope not.

WAS it he that was being unfair OR was it that the other 2 judges were working together? I did see several times that the placings were being discussed by 2 of the judges BEFORE they were announced.