Presenting youre horse at show

[kaykay]

I went to a show last year where the judge made us walk in the opposite of what we normally do. I was so screwed up! LOL.

 

[Ouburgia]

again i'm watching the world show (horrible music by the way

)

And again, almost everybody walks next to the shoulder of the horse, so a judge can't really see the front legs...

I also find the movement of most horses (for as far as I can judge) very poor....

ok, walk towards the judges, and trot away...

No L pattern or what so ever (Weanling stallions)

 

[kaykay]

Im sorry I hope no one takes this the wrong way but really if we all keep picking apart every little thing when the national shows are broadcast on the net they will probably stop showing them.

I love being able to watch both amha and amhr nationals so I really think its bad to keep slamming people on there, music, horses.

I would never slam how people over seas show their horses just because its different then how we show ours.

 

[Ouburgia]

kaykay: I don't slam, I ask why, because it does not make any sense to me.

 

[kaykay]

I am referring to your comments on music and how the horses move. Im really not trying to upset you, but just think of the people that are out there showing their butt off and come back to read posts like this.

again i'm watching the world show (horrible music by the way wink.gif )And again, almost everybody walks next to the shoulder of the horse, so a judge can't really see the front legs...

I also find the movement of most horses (for as far as I can judge) very poor....

 

[bingo]

I am pretty sure AMHA rules dictate the side the handler walks on....it does dictate the direction in which you walk.You have to understand where we are coming from, the WHOLE American way of showing is crazy to us as we place so much emphasis on way of going...which does NOT mean "let's see how fast or flashy our horse can run" (any breed, BTW)

but "let's see how good the conformation on our horse is when it is moving"...so running up and down a rail would not do it for us.

I have to say the way you guys show is crazy to me. I have seen many a horse winning overseas that simply would not cut it conformation wise here in America. Just different ways of doing things and judging

I guess it is a good thing you are not here and do not have to show this way. It is just a matter of what you are used to.

again i'm watching the world show (horrible music by the way

)And again, almost everybody walks next to the shoulder of the horse, so a judge can't really see the front legs...

I also find the movement of most horses (for as far as I can judge) very poor....

ok, walk towards the judges, and trot away...

No L pattern or what so ever (Weanling stallions)

I find it a bit rude to come here and say that you find the movement poor on most of the horses at the World show or National show from what you see online. I would not go on a public forum and claim I find the conformation of the winning horses in Europe very poor. I realize there is a difference in types and styles.

 

[Ouburgia]

a good mover is a good mover, no matter were he is born.

Conformation changes from studbook to studbook, so this can be different. One likes a very refined, arabian style horse, the other likes a more quarter style horse.

But a mover is and stays a mover.

What is rude on giving an opion on the internet? I'm not shouting, I'm not saying that it are horrible horses, I'm not saying the world show has rubisch or anything like that.

I like to watch the show and see how things are done. In fact, when they line up, I pick a winner for myself, and I have been correct for more than once, so that is fun!

I also don't think the won't put it live to view next year because someone has an opinion, cause that's al it is, just my opinion, nothing more, nothing less....

 

[bingo]

Frankly what one touts to be a great mover another may think is a dirt shuffler. So no a good mover is not always a good mover. It really depends on the knowledge of the person watching the horse and making the judgement call.

 

[Ouburgia]

sorry, I don't agree with that, but I can't find the correct english words to express my opinion in that.

I'll see if I can get any help for translating

 

[Sue_C.]

In European showing the Judge gets a chance to view the horse walking and trotting away, and can thus judge the hock action- which it is not possible to do when a horse is standing still, and the conformation of the horse- it is almost impossible to cover conformational flaws on a moving animal.At no time except maybe up the back of the line up, is a horse required to extended, these are breeding classes, not speed classes.

That is how we show most if not all of our breeds here too, except the Miniatures perhaps, at the sanctioned shows.

QUOTE (Ouburgia @ Oct 2 2008, 09:52 AM) again i'm watching the world show (horrible music by the way )

And again, almost everybody walks next to the shoulder of the horse, so a judge can't really see the front legs...

I also find the movement of most horses (for as far as I can judge) very poor....

ok, walk towards the judges, and trot away...

No L pattern or what so ever (Weanling stallions)

I find it a bit rude to come here and say that you find the movement poor on most of the horses at the World show or National show from what you see online. I would not go on a public forum and claim I find the conformation of the winning horses in Europe very poor.

But you just DID.

I have to say the way you guys show is crazy to me. I have seen many a horse winning overseas that simply would not cut it conformation wise here in America.

So, I guess you guys are even now...

Really, I too wonder about the horses being judged on movement if the judge doesn't have them come straight towards him/her, and trotted straight away so that the judge can see how the animals truely travels, not just how they extend. I wish I could see the videos, but only have a very slow dial-up...so it is beyond it's abilities.

 

[maplegum]

Clockwise here in Australia too.

 

[Minimor]

Frankly what one touts to be a great mover another may think is a dirt shuffler. So no a good mover is not always a good mover. It really depends on the knowledge and preference of the person watching the horse and making the judgement call.

This is actually quite true; the two bolded words are my addition to the quote to make it more accurate in my opinion.
Some people figure that if the horse isn't breaking above level then he isn't much of a mover. Others want to see a long, flowing stride without a lot of knee action, and if they see a horse that is stepping quite high they call him a poor mover just because that isn't what they want to see. Still others want to see a nice round movement when the horse trots--the knee/hock elevation is there, but there is lots of extension as well...and this "round" action would be wrong to someone who wants a long/low trot with no knee action, and it would be wrong to someone who wants to see the horse breaking above level, maybe well above level.

Since I cannot watch the video on my old, slow computer I can offer no judgment as to what I see from the show!

edited to add: Truthfully, even with a handler between me and the horse I can still get a pretty good idea of how a horse moves if I'm watching him trot out. Unless it's a very tiny horse with a very huge person I can still see enough of the horse to know what his legs are all doing...and I think any knowledgeable judge can do the same. If the handler is at the horse's shoulder, you can still see how the hind feet are tracking up, and you'll see how the front legs move when the horse brings them up and out. If you're really watching what is there, rather than complaining about how it's being done all wrong, it's easy enough to judge movement.

 

[disneyhorse]

Ah Minimor... thank you for clearing up the "a good mover is simply a preference" thing.

I personally find ALL Quarter Horses to be poor movers. Ick. They have NO lift and knee action whatsoever. But to a Quarter Horse person, that is their cup of tea and they would find a Hackney to move weird and artifical and say "ick" to THAT.

Movement is personal preference.

I am one who, if I was a judge, might sacrifice a little bit of tracking straight for more lift and knee action (I'm not talking tons, I'm talking preference weighted). So who knows what a judge values? You have to go in the ring to find out.

Andrea

 

[Boinky]

Movement is most certainly a preference of the judge & person looking at the horse. there are many styles of 'good movement" and not everyone appreciates all styles. It also is not always the TRUE indicator of conformation. I've seen some outstanding moving horses that were not the best conformed horses in the world and vice versa.

I'm not trying to be rude but you've made a big effort to make it known many times recently that you do not like/agree with almost anything American be it that we shouldn't name our Shetlands "Shetlands" because they are not like the short, stocky island Shetlands and we have 'Americanized' them to more refined flashy animals, or right down to the way our horses move and show. if your preference is not to like things we do that is your CHOICE. No one is making you be involved with miniatures (or any breed) or do things our way. Again i'm not trying to be rude. Perhaps your meanings come across all wrong in translation, but Myself as an American and a breeder/handler, although trying very hard to not get defensive and upset, gets a little tired of hearing how we do everything wrong and how our animals are not worthy compaired to Eupropean model, our horses move poorly. Honeslty I have nothing against Europe and would be Enthralled to see how everything is done over there. Be it good or bad it would be an extremely enlightening learning experience. it perhaps would be an eye opener to see how differently you do things or perhaps how much nicer/worse (or even the same) your animals are than ours. I would love to try new things and learn things from a different persepective, but I also have a different personality than many people so i certainly can't speak for everyone. I tend to prefer a more refined athletic animal than some of the "orrigional" breeds but that doesn't make me or anyone else wrong for liking one or the other. Our country/culture dictates that we do things differently than yours, again that doesn't make one way more right than the next.

I do Urge you to try to have an open mind about things and perhaps you might be pleasantly surprised how something we do might be a slightly better way (or perhaps worse) than the way you do things and perhaps incorporate the goods into your program (as we might with yours) and learn from the bads.

 

[maestoso]

If you watch people who really know HOW to SHOW a horse, they walk into the ring, and continue at the trot on a long lead, moving in front of the horse so the judge can get a full and unobstructed view.

And I have to disagree with some. In my opinion you CAN see the horses way of going and if it is sound and tracks properly in just a few strides.

 

[Ouburgia]

Boinky, thanks for youre reply.

I understand that my messages can be red an other way than I ment them to be. I try to write the best of english that I can, but sometimes it's very hard for me to express my thoughts because I don't always know the right words or sentence.

It's not that I don't like american horses at all. I don't own one, but friends of mine do, and I like their horses, also I often look at sales pages and I see wonderfull horses there (in time i'll buy

)

I don't have any problems that things are different, I'm only a person who want to know why they are different, and that ask here why, just to understand.

In that way I think I'm very open minded.

That things are different between different continents does not meen we can't learn from each other.

I think conformation is more important than movement in the US (correct me if I'm wrong). I want a whole package. So a great mover in a great body. Maybe because I'm a driver movement is even more important to me, I don't really know.

Again, it's absolutly not that I want to tell you all you are doing wrong and that we in europe are better or anything like that. Sorry if it came out like that.

I just want to learn how and why, in America ánd also Europe

 

[Boinky]

again i'm sorry if i sounded rude. Unfortunatly some f the things you have asked i'm not sure that anyone can truly answer. some of it is just very much dictated by our culture. The going counter clockwise was indeed a throw off to giving the finger to our great king of England when we were fighting to free ourselves from them (or so our history claims). Just as MANY MANY things we still carry over from the European way such as measuring in Hands, leading/mounting from the left side and many things I can't even think of right now. Some of those things I could tell you exactly WHY they are done and some things i think are just steeped in tradition and culture and most people have no clue as to why it's done.....it just is.

Here is where i'll say my part and I'm sure there are MANY MANY that disagree with me. I think that mini's have been bred for so long for SIZE alone that MANY mini's have poor conformation period which also leads to poor movement. I'm not saying ALL our horses are this way. In the past 10 years or so i'd say more and more people have been leaning more towards good conformation and movement trying to breed this back into our mini's. Unfortunatly it's hard to overcome poor conformation genetics in only a few generations. Shetlands have been bred for years for good conformation and movement (now that's not to say there aren't poorly conformed ones out there) and that's why i believe many people feel strongly about adding them to our gene pool. It's much easier to breed good conformation from good conformation. I think the top mini's are moving better and better every generation because of more concientious breeding. Unfotunatly we do still have the short choppy stridded mini still.

 

[Just Us N Texas]

I just have to add this. Demi O'Byrne, an Irishman, buys the most expensive Thoroughbreds in the world. He buys for Englishmen, John Magnier of Coolmore Stud is just one example. I have watched Demi many many times as he has had yearlings walk for him. Demi always watches a horse track from the side, never from the front or back. Demi of course has success in buying some of the very best runners, has had and kept his reputation for a good eye for decades. I also know other buyers that only watch a horse track from front and back. Just the opposite of what most have said here in defense of their style of their countries huh?

A good eye for horseflesh can see what they are looking for in a horse either way. Not trying to be harsh or mean in any way, just pointing out that a good horse, in that particular person's eye, is a good horse!