Presidential selfie video

[Minimor]

Provable lies?

...I am still wondering how anyone can actually prove they do not dislike someone because of that person's race? I can state that race has nothing to do with why I have no use for Obama...believe me or not I know it to be true...but how on earth would I actually prove it? I can provide a whole list of reasons, but does that prove it to be true?

Unprovable truths?

 

[shorthorsemom]

I cannot delete a post totally without entering a word. I chose deleted as my word.

since you asked... For some reason I cannot edit my recent postings and my words go away and I cannot even find the word edit to click and add anything so they are coming up empty. feel free to wipe my stuff out totally, I cannot do that from here.

I do not agree with anything you have been saying and I admire Carriage and his words and the "do not do it again" bothered me a lot.

I have chosen to leave the porch along with my words.

 

[vickie gee]

Short, for what it is worth I saw one of your posts before you deleted it. It was the one that had your list of do not likes. I liked it. I would have liked it more had it been longer, but it did appear you had your dander up and may have posting hurriedly. One thing I have taken away from this thread is a new catch phrase "the facts as I see them." I love it so much I will be using it to replace "I can neither confirm nor deny" to annoy and shush folks in situations non-related to this horsey forum. Hope your feelings were not hurt too badly. I have been told to not let the door hit me in the butt, made fun of for being a Christian, called silly, pious, etc. I don't care. I know where I stand on any topic and could care less if someone disagrees with me or has decided not to like me. It is life.

 

[shorthorsemom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnAyr0kWRGE

 

[Debby - LB]

ok I understand now. no, sorry no ones ever been able to delete their own posts.

Quote shorthorsemon - I do not agree with anything you have been saying and I admire Carriage and his words and the "do not do it again" bothered me a lot. - end Quote

I didn't take offense to you, Sonya, chandab, vickie gee disagreeing with me, I like reading their posts and yours, doesn't matter if I agree with them or not. I learn from all of them and I've actually had my mind changed by reading others opinions, that's what it's all about.

as for your remark about Bob you are darn right I told him not to speak to me that way again. I appreciate you now telling me you agree that what I added had no business in the conversation uh hum in that light I guess Sonya bringing murder and religion into it, vickie gee talking about the TV show Scandal after you said the President should have been paying more attention to the commercials being aired after a children's program And the remarks about the Muslims and the President being one...all which were added BEFORE I even posted for the first time are all apparently o.k. and on topic though.....to accuse me of using a deceptive tactic to attack someone, let alone calling me a liar. Yes thank you for letting me know you agree with that. I certainly did say don't do it again and I had every right to do so.

This could have been a decent conversation, I especially would like to have continued with one of the things Sonya brought up but no you seem to have taken my posts personally and went off on a rant like it was personally directed at you at which time you went back and started editing then deleting your posts. Nothing I said was directed at you. Maybe one day you can re-read it all in a different state of mind and hopefully it will not have the same effect on you.

Feel free to stay or go I have no hard feelings. Peace Love and Light for all.

 

[Debby - LB]

ps I should probably kick myself right in the butt for even continuing with this but I looked up the definition of straw man as soon as I was accused of I guess being one / using one? and here it is.

strawman - a weak or sham argument set up to be easily refuted

strawman - a sham argument set up to be defeated.

strawman - a weak or imaginary argument or opponent that is set up to be easily defeated

strawman - an argument, claim, or opponent that is invented in order to win or create an argument

strawman - An intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent’s real argument

??????

Oh! and don't forget Carriage's own description (given in post #47) "STRAW MAN This is done to disarm your "opponent" and is a deceptive tactic. Again it is a soft form of attack and designed to put the opposing view on the defensive."

 

[shorthorsemom]

Ouch.

I read a different definition of strawman and that was not my take away, but maybe because I really understand where carriage comes from and his deep rooted beliefs that I understand what he was saying.

In my opinion...It did appear that you were monitoring the unmonitored section of LB where we were feeling free to be ourselves. In my opinion. The words darn right... just sound like you want to harshly correct me for daring to agree, but then again when I was you give comfort to someone who is in agreement with you but nothing I could agree with, is this not the same thing I was doing?

Bob's postings are uplifting for me.. much as you enjoy Tagalong postings because you have the same ideals. You gave her comfort and encouragement. I did the same with Bob.

The reason I deleted my posts was I went back to the rules and saw the one about "if you can't take the heat".. etc and decided I couldn't take the heat and I backed out in the spirit of what this section was created for. I didn't leave my postings behind when I backed out. I have done this many times on this forum.

I think we can all be a strawman at times, that is according to the definition that I read on the internet and my takeaway.. and I still hate the pres. selfie video and in my home, I agree with anyone disgusted with the current administration and my reasons go far beyond reading infowars and fox news. They are deeply personal and not to be shared on a public forum.

Peace and love to all. Guess I better stick with dog topics.

 

[Carriage]

The selfie is, in and of itself, curious and revealing.

It is the epitome of self centered-ness. NOT servant-hood. That a president would be so crass as to engage in this behavior leaves the mature asking where the adults are and why have they let him out by him self again. Kinda like giving the queen of England an I pod. What is he 15?

 

[Minimor]

Actually I think a better explanation of straw man is given here on Wikipedia...even if it is Wikipedia!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

[shorthorsemom]

The wiki is what I read.

 

[lucky seven]

I've read the posts on this subject and I really don't care if he does a selfie, My problem with our President goes much deeper than that, I don't care that he is black, or of the muslim faith. I just think he is spineless when it comes to dealing with world leaders. Granted we no longer have Bin Laden but what has replaced him? Pres. Obama is petty and pouts if he doesn't get his own way. Our borders are at their weekest level and I'm totally against giving the immigrants free rights to what we fought for. Most of our young people can't afford to go to college but these young immigrants want their educations to be free. I also believe they should speak English instead of us learning Spanish. If I moved to a foreign country, I would expect to learn the language not the other way around. This is just one area that upsets me. I'm a lifelong Democrat but can't see myself voting that way anymore.

 

[vickie gee]

Amen 7. The problems I have with him run much deeper than his attempt to make a cool video. And like you, I had my Democrat days. Currently transitioning away from my Republican days due to the RINOs.

I was glad to see the ever watchful Bb Bob Carriage come on board because he never fails to enlighten me. The term Straw Man was new to me. As I check out the meaning of it I realize that while the term was unfamiliar, the tactic certainly was not anything new. At first I thought you called Debby a straw man. Later I decided that was not the case at all.

Bob, please correct me if I am wrong in ascertaining that the person presenting an argument is not a Straw Man but that actually the person creates a Straw Man. ??

Therefore, Straw Man is merely a modus operandi? I have read and re-read through this entire thread. In Debby's post #59 it seems she thinks you were at some point previously telling her what she could say. I cannot find where you ever did that so I am not real sure if I am overlooking where that happened or if it was misinterpretation.

Short, I for one love you in the yard. You have a pretty high approval rate with me (gmo being the exception due to a plethora of conspiracy theories of mine about them

). Loved the video clip you had up earlier. I even tried to find Dead Poet's Society on Netflix last night, to no avail. In the video I saw me as the person doing the rooster walk. Were you the one exercising your right to not walk?

 

[shorthorsemom]

Oh Vickie... so glad you got the part about "exercising my right not to walk". yep, that is me and the reason I posted that clip, I was hoping somebody would get it.

That movie surfaces from time to time on tv.

I take the road less traveled by.

 

[Debby - LB]

vickie gee I know you didn't ask me but if I may answer your question about my #59 while I'm speaking I'd like to.
quoting some of my original post:
Some people will never believe any good of this President. Then there are some whose mind set is anti-Obama due solely to him being a black man in the white house.

When Sonya interpreted what was written the following way and dismissed it: " if one disagrees or criticizes Obama it's because they are racist"..and stated she was sick of that crap
being in a hurry I simply said "sorry you feel that way but as stated some people are anti-Obama solely because he's a black man." I at that time quoted the words some people because it was in both sentences and meaning (obvious to me) in general.. not any particular person.
I don't disagree that there are people who will shout racism at the drop of a hat when there is criticism towards any black person. I do agree that happens and I don't like it either but there are instances when racism is the cause.

Bob said in #52 (in defense of his remark on #47) "There is nobody conversing here that hates the O because he is black. Therefore that argument doesn't even belong in this conversation." ..... what I posted doesn't even belong in this conversation?. ....soooo am I being told what I can say here?
as well as this (and this is the second time the word hate has been added)
Quote/ we hate him because he is black is also a conspiracy theory. It is a provable lie. Racism among the common folk is FAR more rare than it is with the elites, both pub and DEM who perpetuate this needed division. /endQuote

There is no denying that there are people who are racist and of those people it stands to reason some of them do not agree with or like the President for that reason.... no conspiracy theory to that. That racism exists is no lie.... and that IS easily provable.
There was no straw man tactic used here. In Bobs own description he states it's use here as being justified because of racism being a fallacy.....
There was no sham argument posted. Actually there was no argument at all, just a bunch of posts, including mine, that quickly got off topic.

 

[Carriage]

You are correct Miss Vickie,

The straw man argument can take MANY shapes. In the end it is NOT the issue but a side and unimportant and in this case False argument so as to not take on the 3000 pound elephant cavorting around the room.

The dividers MUST use this and similar lies to confuse and dominate the conversation and create MULTIPLE layers of division. I have spoken to this FACT for several years now. Once you are able to understand the Hegelian you will study and CLEARLY see when it is being utilized. Folk not classically trained in such deception will still crudely mimic this behavior because it is spoon fed to them at every turn. They actually have been conditioned to behave and think this way. Such conditioning precludes the ability to see through the tactic and behavior. In other words, they are told that folk hate the O because he is black Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. No amount of fact or truth can penetrate such conditioning without realization and then study and testing. Brutal self honesty is required!

In the end you can say that I'm wrong. However,........ the question what needs answered is why our gubiment would spend so much money and time training folk in JUST this skill set if it was false. In this case the correct answer is the simple one. They wouldn't.

Mom, Stand your ground, say what is true and continue to be sweet.

Honor God today and thanks for your time,

Bb

 

[shorthorsemom]

duplicate post

 

[tagalong]

Lack of respect for the president? Yes, I do not respect him, I can not respect someone who lacks integrity, I wish I could quote the many political posts that are no longer here talking about Bush, the lack of respect was rampant.

I think this forum has way more supporters of Obama than those who disagree with his policies so I really don't understand Tagalongs post.

Sonya - in the past the anti-Obama posts and vitriol far outnumbered the few of us who were either not vitriolic enough or dared to suggest that perhaps there was another vantage point or side to be heard and wanted a discussion instead of yet more angst/rants/conspiracies. I was told many times how wrong or ignorant I was... I was told that as I was not a US citizen my opinion and concerns did not matter - even though I live here, pay taxes, pay into Social Security etc. etc. I was basically told to shut up. I am sure you remember those threads. Inappropriate cartoons were also posted. Thus, I am not sure why my post was so hard to understand. That is truly what went on.

I had enough of that for a while. More than enough.

I have always respected the office of the President even if I did not care for the guy in the office or his policies (or lack thereof). Even then I never called Bush names, went on rants about him, disparaged him, sneered at him, came up with (yes, that word again!) conspiracies etc.

Not once.

The same cannot be said of the Obama venom.

 

[Sonya]

Oh hogwash Tag...there were plenty of posts that smeared Bush, please don't try and say there were not.

If the anti-Obama posts outnumber, then perhaps there is a reason...after all his approval rating is quite low! Many people have been affected negatively by his policies.

 

[tagalong]

Hogwash? No, not at all. There was actually very little in the way of political commentary here back then - even on whatever the Back Porch was called. Bush's approval ratings were in the teens at some point then - 18 or 19%? And yet I do not recall the kind of venom that we would see later…

Animated/heated political threads were a far more recent development (since the 2008 campaign) … and it got so nasty that all political threads were banned and LB went back to more benign topics. I am sure you remember all that. That is not hogwash - but fact.

And I will repeat - unlike many, I have always respected the office and position of the President and not reviled the man in that office - even if he was not my cup of tea.

I don't care much for Hillary, but if "discussion" now includes political bad facial expression videos - that will take over everything!

They all do immature eyerolls at each other, scowls, grimaces… there is a never ending supply of that nonsense from supposed adults out there!

 

[tagalong]

Whoops - could not go back and edit - some sources cited 19% for Bush's all time low… some said in the 20s. No matter - there was not nearly the same level of vitriol displayed here as there has been for Obama - not even remotely close.