Proposed AMHR Rule Change!!!!

[shadyacersminis]

I was given this proposal for a rule change at a show a little over a week ago and asked to pass the word.... This proposal has been passed around to members all over Florida, So I figured this would be a good place to post it and get the word out across the country too and see what everyone thinks about it....

I have scanned the proposal and will post it

The rule change involves adding Youth Classes for both Senior and Junior Mare and Gelding Divisions verses just a single Youth Halter Mare ages### or Youth Halter Gelding ages###... Instead, it will be Youth Halter Senior Mare, Youth Halter Junior Mare... Youth Halter Senior Gelding and Youth Halter Junior Gelding.... The age groups will still be the same....

Here is the link to the proposal - AMHR Proposed Rule Change

The Rule Change is written as

Section X, Article AMHR, Part 11 Item#Z

Youth Halter: All Youth Classes may be split, 7 years and under, 8-12 years, and 13-17 years: Or 12 years and under and 13-17 years. Junior Mare Division, Senior Mare Division, Junior Gelding Division and Senior Gelding Division shown by a Youth. To be judged on breed, character, confirmation, performance, quality, and manners. The exhibitor is to have complete control of the horse throughout the class. For youth age 7 and under division, spotters are permitted, but are there only for a saftey factor and must stand back from the child and horse two paces.

Language this proposal will replace in current Rule Book:

Open to miniature mare or gelding, any age shown by Youth

Proposed Effective Date: Immediately

Committees Referred to: Youth Committee, Show Committee, and Rules Committee

 

[ruffian]

I'm sorry, but I cannot support this. Simply because I would be very hesitant to have a 6 or 7 year old with a yearling or 2YO filly or gelding, even with a spotter. While it currently means that they could have a weanling, yearling or 2YO, I'd hope they wouldn't. For this class, give me a nice old experienced horse. Plus it adds 5 potential classes to a show.

 

[dannigirl]

I agree that I cannot support this either. I think there are enough classes without addin 6 potential classes. Also, if AMHR does this, how long will it be before the classics and moderns also add the divisions. There are already approaching 400 classes in many shows.

 

[shadyacersminis]

I can definately understand where some may be hesitant with a 6 or seven year old showing a yearling.. but, I have seen it done many times, As its written now, any age youth can take in any age horse into the showring already... I believe they started this because there has been a huge wave of Youths that have gotten involved with showing in Florida but they have been very limited and had to make a choice on which horse to show in the class when there is more than one that could have been shown by them...

I know just last week at the Marianna, FL show, I had my neighbors 12yo daughter showing my horses in a few classes, I had both a Senior and a 2 year old mare there, she could only show one of them in the youth class... If it was split into divisions, she could have had the opportunity to show both of them, The youth are the future of the miniature horse industry, The more kids we can get interested in showing, the more fun they have at shows, the better chances they may keep showing as adults........

 

[JourneysEnd]

Unless I misunderstand or things have changed, the office won't care who signs or mails this in.

Rule changes are submitted by July, voted on at convention and then the BOD takes a look at the proposed rule changed and usually takes into account how the vote went at convention before deciding.

Please don't overload the office with mail without checking this out.

 

[shadyacersminis]

Unless I misunderstand or things have changed, the office won't care who signs or mails this in.
Rule changes are submitted by July, voted on at convention and then the BOD takes a look at the proposed rule changed and usually takes into account how the vote went at convention before deciding.

Please don't overload the office with mail without checking this out.

Thank You for correcting that... I was going by what I was told....

 

[JourneysEnd]

No problem.

If you really want to support this, wait until closer to convention and then have people mail their requests to their director (unless Belinda gets on here and says OMG !)

You can also either go to convention or have somebody you know who is going speak for the rule change when/if it comes up for a vote.

 

[shadyacersminis]

I do know that atleast one of the people that proposed this is going to be there, She goes every year...

 

[Magic]

If it were a voluntary split rather than a mandatory one, I think it would be fine. Shows that have lots of youth showing would benefit by doing the splits, and those shows that don't have as many youth could skip it (if it were optional that is).

 

[Echo Acres]

I have to disagree with all of you saying that kids under 7 shouldn't show the young horses. First of all I have to say that I have 2 children. My son is 7 and has been showing the last 3 years. Up until this past year all he showed was junior horses because that was all we had except 1 senior gelding and honestly I trusted those junior horses way more than my senior gelding. He was not a youth horse. So all of you might be thinking, what kind of a crazy lady am I? Well I will say safety comes 100% first for my kids. I go in about 90% of my sons classes and will again this year because he is still in the 7 and under, just in case. I did have 1 time I needed to step in. He has never shown a baby, but several yearling's and 2 year olds. He practices at home here and helps us exercise the horses. To be honest these horses know they are kids and often times are better for them than adults. My daughter was 2 this past show season. She did only show in 1 class with our senior gelding, BUT we bought a filly in July that was a yearling. They formed such a bond that if we would have bought her any sooner she would have showed her at nationals in youth halter. I do start my kids out in the color class until they can handle a halter class. But if the horse is taught to behave and the kids practice, I see no reason why they can't show a junior horse. No I am not a trainer, I am a small farm that shows with 3 generations. You can ask anyone that knows me, that I do not sacrifice my kids safety just to show a horse. Of course these are horses and anything can happen, but if they are worked with and the temperament is right there should be no issues. I do have to say that my son is small for his age and all but 1 of these horses have been under 34". But the one B 2 year old filly that he showed last year I was told by a judge that he showed better than me! I wasn't going to let him show her, but again they seem to bond with the kids so we decided to try it. The judges were thrilled and even told me they best be headed to nationals, and they did. Just use common sense and there should be no issues with it. I do really like it when the age of the kids are split up. There were many times when my 5 year old had to show against 15-17 year old kids. Don't think it was right, but several times he beat those kids and with a junior horse. One class there was 13 kids in. He had a yearling and I told him not to expect to place. (I teach my kids that winning isn't everything. Yes is it nice, but going out and doing the best they can and having fun is just as important) He came out of that class with 2 4th place ribbons and was pretty proud of himself.

 

[Shelley]

I don't feel 5 "potential" classes at a show is any big deal. As a parent to a youth, I can see a reason for the divisions. At local shows without the split my son can only

show one mare and one gelding. At Nationals the classes are split, and therefore he can show a Jr. and a Sr. of each. The problem is qualifying everybody. Without the

classes being split out at the local level, we therefore have to attend a minimum of four local shows in order for him to qualify for all his classes.

I have seen many kids showing Senior horses they cannot handle, so I don't believe the age of the horse is the issue, it's the question of if that child can control that particular horse.

My 7 year old son (who started showing at age 5) easily showed a 2 year old filly last year with no problem, however we have a two year old gelding that he will most likely not be taking

into the ring this year.

Parents need to have some common sense as to what they into the ring with their kids, whether they are Junior horses or not.

I have seen a child repeatedly go back into classes with a horse they cannot handle in the previous class. I have also seen children literally in diapers being

sent into the ring that obviously are too young to even know why they are in the ring and what they're supposed to do. This personally concerns me as my son is in that ring

with them. Spotters or not, problems can happen quickly. Rather than a minimum age for the horse, perhaps there should be a minimum age for the kids, perhaps 4 when

most kids are old enough to comprehend what's going on in the ring and are getting big enough to have some strength.

My point here being that this should not be the reason for objecting to the proposed rule change.

Shelley

 

[Echo Acres]

Rather than a minimum age for the horse, perhaps there should be a minimum age for the kids, perhaps 4 when most kids are old enough to comprehend what's going on in the ring and are getting big enough to have some strength.

Around here there isn't really an issue, but I could see it being one. When my kids are that little they start out in color class. My daughter who was 2 this year and yes in diapers wanted to show so bad. You tell her she wasn't old enough. She really wanted to drive, funny thing is our driving gelding listened to everything she said voice commands and she learned it from listening to me. Of course she couldn't show because at her age I would never let her hold the lines herself. But she is little miss horse trainer and I did allow her to go into 1 color class. At 3 she might be showing 1 horse this year in youth halter. But I make sure my kids do understand how to work with them and to watch out for others and I talk to them in the ring. I tell them to leave space between them and the other horses and make sure they stay focused on the horse not everything else. Like I said, safety is first for my kids and if they didn't follow directions and safety requirements no matter how bad they want to show I wouldn't let them. As far as strength goes, if a horse really wants to take off I don't think that most kids would be able to hold them. I always tell my kids lead with 2 hands. If the horse spooks, you let go of the hand closest to the horse so you don't get run over. If you still can't hold them let go! We are in an arena, the horse isn't going to go any where. We had a judge spook our junior filly when my son was showing her. She jumped and started to take off. My son let go of the closest hand but not the other and then was able to get her stopped. He was so proud of himself for doing the right thing and getting her stopped. On the other hand at home he was leading a horse he should not have been. He told my mom I said it was okay. It was real windy and something spooked the horse. He took off and my son didn't let go. He got drug a couple of feet only before I came out of the barn with another horse and hollered at him to let go. He thankfully didn't get hurt besides a small scratch, but learned his lesson.

I know everyones opinion on this is different. I see horses that have only been hitched to a cart once or twice with a little kid thrown in the cart and sent into the ring. There is no such thing as a 100% guarantee with an animal, but I make darn sure it is as close as it is going to be before putting them with my kids.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Altho I don't see this proposal as a bad thing. There are quite a few younger kids that can handle these horse. Its more of parents judgement whether or not they can handle it. BUT, its just adding more classes. They have these classes at AMHR Nationals. However, I would much prefer to see the shows split up by age division of the kids, not the horses. They need to split these youth classes up with 7 & under, 8-12, and 13-18. Not saying some shows don't but from what I've seen most don't. Not saying your proposal is a bad thing, but I would rather much see a proposal sent out to make the youth classes split by age mandatory then the horses age.

 

[Echo Acres]

They need to split these youth classes up with 7 & under, 8-12, and 13-18. Not saying some shows don't but from what I've seen most don't.

I found out last year that this is not standard on the class list so most shows don't (at least around here). But if the show manager calls the office and requests it you can get them. We did for our club show and it was great!

I see peoples point about if you want the youth to show more than one horse at nationals you have to go to more shows. But they only have to show them 1 time I believe (the horse still needs their requirements). I don't think a few extra youth halter classes would hold the show up to much.

 

[~Lisa~]

I do not see this as being able to pass on the mandatory class list but I can not see why it would be an issue to be added as optional classes

 

[kaykay]

I just dont think this would work well in our area. My son shows in youth and there are some shows where there are only 1 or 2 entries so they have to combine all age groups. I honestly like it the way it is

Kay

 

[midnight star stables]

If it were a voluntary split rather than a mandatory one, I think it would be fine. Shows that have lots of youth showing would benefit by doing the splits, and those shows that don't have as many youth could skip it (if it were optional that is).

Like Kay said, I've been to shows with only 1-3 youth. Why add more classes to an already long and slow day? I think it would be more beneficial if each show had the option to do this. Depending on the area, whether passed or not, it could help or hurt. Just my opinion

Good Luck!

 

[Minimor]

I wouldn't support such a rule change. Our local show has just had to split the youth classes into the various age groups so that some families can have all the kids show all their horses and qualify for all the Nationals classes...last year there were 4 youth halter classes...under mare, under gelding, over mare and over gelding. This year there will be 12 youth halter classes....3 age divisions for under mares, 3 age divisions for over mares, 3 age divisions for each of under and over geldings.

So now you want to split mares and geldings into junior and senior horses. This doesn't add 5 classes to our local show...it ends up adding another 12 classes--3 age divisions for jr. mares under, 3 for jr. geldings under, 3 for jr. mares over, 3 for jr. geldings over...because sure as anything adding jr/sr horse divisions at Nationals will mean 3 age divisions for each, and that means the youth members are going to need qualifying classes at the local shows. Adding all these additional youth classes adds an incredible amount of time to a local show, plus adds additional expense when it comes to ribbons/awards.

Perhaps come up with a rule change to do away with the extra qualification requirements for youth/horse combinations showing at Nationals?

And I also can't resist saying that I think even youth horses should be judged on conformation rather than confirmation

 

[Shelley]

Rather than a minimum age for the horse, perhaps there should be a minimum age for the kids, perhaps 4 when most kids are old enough to comprehend what's going on in the ring and are getting big enough to have some strength.

Around here there isn't really an issue, but I could see it being one. When my kids are that little they start out in color class. My daughter who was 2 this year and yes in diapers wanted to show so bad. You tell her she wasn't old enough. She really wanted to drive, funny thing is our driving gelding listened to everything she said voice commands and she learned it from listening to me. Of course she couldn't show because at her age I would never let her hold the lines herself. But she is little miss horse trainer and I did allow her to go into 1 color class. At 3 she might be showing 1 horse this year in youth halter. But I make sure my kids do understand how to work with them and to watch out for others and I talk to them in the ring. I tell them to leave space between them and the other horses and make sure they stay focused on the horse not everything else. Like I said, safety is first for my kids and if they didn't follow directions and safety requirements no matter how bad they want to show I wouldn't let them. As far as strength goes, if a horse really wants to take off I don't think that most kids would be able to hold them. I always tell my kids lead with 2 hands. If the horse spooks, you let go of the hand closest to the horse so you don't get run over. If you still can't hold them let go! We are in an arena, the horse isn't going to go any where. We had a judge spook our junior filly when my son was showing her. She jumped and started to take off. My son let go of the closest hand but not the other and then was able to get her stopped. He was so proud of himself for doing the right thing and getting her stopped. On the other hand at home he was leading a horse he should not have been. He told my mom I said it was okay. It was real windy and something spooked the horse. He took off and my son didn't let go. He got drug a couple of feet only before I came out of the barn with another horse and hollered at him to let go. He thankfully didn't get hurt besides a small scratch, but learned his lesson.

I know everyones opinion on this is different. I see horses that have only been hitched to a cart once or twice with a little kid thrown in the cart and sent into the ring. There is no such thing as a 100% guarantee with an animal, but I make darn sure it is as close as it is going to be before putting them with my kids.

Renee, I can understand what you're saying. But horses are unpredictable and even the best trained and most gentle of horses at home can have an issue, especially at a show where they are

more excited. I'm sorry, but a child that isn't yet capable of comprehending using the toilet isn't old enough to think fast enough on their feet should a problem occur - nor physically strong enough to handle it.

Even with a spotter standing 2 paces away (although lately I have seen spotters literally take leads from kids in the ring and stack the horses for them - then win or place - another issue for another day) -

it's a danger as you literally can't move in fast enough if something bad happens. At my son's very first show I was spotting, the steward put him and his horse right next to the judges table and then

promptly walked over and stuck her hand into the bottom of a cellophane potato chip bag..his normally gentle, trained mare went straight up in the air. My son was large enough

at age 5 to jerk her down and turn her around and set her little self right back up before I could reach him to help. A smaller child could certainly have been in trouble.

Here in Michigan the youth classes are large, the ages are not divided and my son has shown in classes of upwards of 10.

Shelley

 

[Karen S]

Section X, Article AMHR, Part 11 Item#Z

Youth Halter: All Youth Classes may be split, 7 years and under, 8-12 years, and 13-17 years: Or 12 years and under and 13-17 years. Junior Mare Division, Senior Mare Division, Junior Gelding Division and Senior Gelding Division shown by a Youth. To be judged on breed, character, confirmation, performance, quality, and manners. The exhibitor is to have complete control of the horse throughout the class. For youth age 7 and under division, spotters are permitted, but are there only for a saftey factor and must stand back from the child and horse two paces.

Language this proposal will replace in current Rule Book:

Open to miniature mare or gelding, any age shown by Youth

Proposed Effective Date: Immediately (Unitl it passes the BOD, it would become effective 2011-2 years out)

Committees Referred to: Youth Committee, Show Committee, and Rules Committee

Ok want to give my 2 cents since I work very closely with show premiums and putting on shows……

This proposal actually has two parts and as it stands would be voted as is. The author of this proposal would need to attend convention since they’re the only one that can make any changes to this proposal.

Now we currently have the option to split any of the youth classes with the exception of the driving classes into 7 & Under, 8-12 and 13-17 for mares & geldings if these classes warrants being split in your area. Not all areas have enough youth to do the splits and if you want those classes split, tell your show managers/secretaries that you would be willing to “SPONSOR” those classes. Right now it cost approximately $20 per class for a minimum of (2) Judges just for the ribbons.

What you are asking from the above proposal is to add more youth classes to an already full show premium. If you don’t believe me go take a look at our club’s show premium list (http://www.aspcamhrclubntexas.com) and go to the calendar of events and look at our show premium. We do accommodate as much as we can. This year our show committee chose not to breakdown all of the youth classes to 7 & Under, 8-12, and 13-17 as our numbers for the younger youth declined this past year. We picked only those classes where we had the numbers, thus proving that the entries were there. The classes that only had one or two entries were those that went 12 & Under and 13-17. If at this year’s shows the numbers come back up, then we will go back to split those classes. We do keep all show records of class entries from our shows so we can go back and look at the number of entries from past shows.

Our Daffodil Dandy/Halloween Spooker show premium already has 414 classes and we are now doing a three full day show. With what you are proposing would add approximately 48 classes for both the Under and Over division (mares and geldings) so now you have just increased the number classes in my premium list to 462. Are you willing to pay more for entry fee’s to accommodate the judges? Their fee’s will now increase due to the number of classes they have to judge and yes, this is how some base what they charge a club.

I would also have to honestly look at this if it would be good for everyone. As it stands right now if this proposal was to come before the members of the ASPC/AMHR and the youth committee I would vote against it. We cannot keep creating classes to an already bogged down show list.

JMHO

Karen