pushing on teeth

[alexb.]

Hello, thanks for every ones time and effort.

Just got our daughter an 11 year old amha stallion. Very well trained for carts, etc.

I'm just learning every thing, my wife had a horse 40 years ago for a short time.

The horse has an over bite were the front lowers have ground in the outside front top in. We just noticed he stands at the steel coral fencing and licks his teeth then puts the top outside face of the top teeth onto the round horizontal pipe and then pushes in hard for a second or 2. If i Had to guess how hard I would say about 40 pounds of pressure. I noticed him doing this for ten minutes before I had to go,but will watch more tommarow.

Does any one have a guess why he might be doing this, besides teeth pain relief?

Thanks for your time

Alex

 

[Becky Horat]

You're sure he's not "windsucking?" A disorder where they kind of grab a fence rail and tense their neck up making an odd noise. Might look into this disorder and see if this is not what he's doing. If so, it's a terrible habbit that most do not break and many times teach horses stalled with or near them to do it as well.

 

[jess - bentley]

I am not positive, but it does sound like he is cribbing, sometimes called windsucking. Horses that do this do make a habit out of it and it can cause problems. Your mini could colic from it. They sell cribbing straps that help control the problem. If you have other horses that are around him they could also start cribbing, they pick up the habit.

I would also check with a horse dentist, have his teeth checked to make sure he is comfortable. Is he eating ok?

Hope this helps

 

[amysue]

I agree it sounds like cribbing or windsucking. Some horses do like to lick stuff though it keeps their digestive juices going kinda like people chewing gum. If he is making a grunting sound then its cribbing which is a bad habit that releases endorphins and relaxes them.You could buy a cribbing collar for him or try spraying no chew on everything.

 

[disneyhorse]

Cribbing/wind sucking for sure. Just offer a lot of forage and try to keep him busy... But once they pick up that bad habit it's near impossible to stop.

 

[stormy]

Windsucking and you need to get control of it if you can, can cause colic, also does alot of damage to the teeth and can throw the bite off. Electric fence helps, cribbing collars too, having a slow feeder so he can munch on hay all the time or a hay pillow also...it is a nasty habit and one that can spread thru a barn

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I agree with the others that it sure sounds like cribbing but before I went out to buy a cribbing collar or put up electric wire I would consult a vet for there opinion and have the vet check/ float his teeth and do a complete check up. Then I would talk to the vet about A) gelding said stallion who doesn't sound like he has the bite to remain a stallion B) ulcers - in case physical discomfort is what started him down this path (altho if his bite is already showing wear chances are he's been doing this for a while) and C) his diet and whether he is getting all he requires (altho imo it seems many vets are not really as informed as they could be about mini diets). Once I had done that I would consider the different approaches to dealing with this vice.

 

[AnnaC]

It does sound as though he is either cribbing or windsucking. How long have you had him - over here in the UK both these are classified as a vice and have to be disclosed when selling a horse. If not disclosed then you would be obliged to take the horse back should the purchaser want to return it. Did you know the horse had this habit before you bought him?

These are habits that you dont really want in a horse, but you have been given good advice here on various ways to help prevent/contain it. Just be aware that having started one of these habits, a horse ultimately finds great comfort/pleasure from doing it, and can become stressed when prevented - just like any human suddenly having to give up cigarettes or other addictive substances.

I really hope you can find a way to help this little fella get himself sorted for the sake of his health and for your enjoyment of him. Good luck!

 

[alexb.]

Thanks every one. Wasn't sure because all the video's/discriptions showed the house pulling and he pushes. He is not making noises of any kind so if windsucking it's quiet/slow air flow.

We got him from some good friends who got several in a great deal on 7 minis,tack, trailer, etc. The owners wife died and wanted to end this part in his life, so sold every thing at once. My friends have larger area with out the steel 1 5\8 corals so never saw him display this activity, but did notice his teeth worn away but figured from over bite. I do not feel they are in the wrong at all, just some thing unfortunate we will deal with.

He eats/pulls cart/gentle/takes direction great. Coat/hair/feet/poop are perfect too, wormed and vaccine and psillium/ etc taken care of too.....just this cribbing thing off and on in the day.

Going to research some more for a day or two, and listen to advise, call one of my blacksmith students who happens to be a retired vet ( got lucky having 2 farrier students too) and see what they think.

I did see some people saying some times the cribbing collar works and some times not. Don't won't to use a steel cage muzzle mask thing because he can't graze then, so we might go with a hot wire, but will wait a little to decide.

I am thinking the only hurry is preventing more wear down of his teeth. We have no other horses, just hogs,goats and allot of chickens.

If any one thinks of any thing else to share, please do, we appreciate every ones time and wisdom.

Good bless

Alex

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have to tell you there is no way to cure this, it is a neurosis, and an incurable one....BUT there is lots you can do to help the horse- It is very possible that there is a link between this vice and ulcers- so it would be worth your while trying him on a palliative- straightforward Bicarb is said to work wonders (you must understand I am not a Vet and would not wish you to use this remedy instead of something your Vet recommends- just while you wait as it can do no harm) What the horse is doing is releasing endorphins into it's bloodstream by the movements it is making and these in turn relieve either the stress it is under (in your case not much, although gelding him would definitely help as an entire is automatically under all sorts of hidden stresses ) or the pain it is in- which does not have to be great pain, imagine living with a slight stomach disorder all the time-. You are doing the right thing by deciding not to try to stop it mechanically as this will just cause it to relieve it's stress in another way, although once you have found out what is causing the problem, and remedied it, a collar might help to deter it. Your little horse is very lucky to have found you, I cannot say how much I admire newcomers who, like you, automatically put the horses needs first instead of just complaining they have a problem.

 

[supaspot]

I agree gelding him would be a good idea , he may also be less stressed if you got him some company

 

[Minimor]

This does not sound like real cribbing--not the typical cribbing where they latch their top teeth onto a fence board/post/whatever and suck wind but perhaps it is this horses own version of it. It sounds like a habitual repetitive action and perhaps he does do it for the same reason that other horses crib. As you say a cribber does not press the front of his teeth against the fence rail.

Now since you have some concern that he is doing this as a result of tooth pain I would get someone to check his teeth and see if they need some work done. I couldnt quite follow your description of his front teeth; he has an overbite--that shouldn't be a problem, pain wise, for the front teeth, as they will simply grow over the bottom ones without having anything to dig into (unless they are so close to the bottom teeth that they are scraping his gums?) Are his bottom teeth badly overgrown, so that they are digging into the roof of his mouth behind the top front teeth? If so, you will want to get them filed down, and of course get the top ones shortened as well. If the bottom teeth are not pressing into his palate, I would not expect the overbite to be causing him pain, which means that his tooth pressing isnt an effort to alleviate pain.

 

[alexb.]

I will take a picture of his teeth today to share/learn with every one..... If it stops raining

 

[alexb.]

Blurry, but you get the idea...... never mind, tried to upload video but didn't work.

 

[Marty]

For your sake and the horse's I hope Minimor is correct. It would be great to have his teeth worked on whether he is windsucking or not.

If he is windsucking, like others said you will never break that habit and you have troubles ahead. You can collar, you can muzzle and you can hot wire and I am here to tesitfy they will windsuck right through that collar and muzzle and hot wire bigger than you can imagine.They will suck on a post or gate or anything. I was given an old mare some 30 years ago who windsucked and before my eyes, within days, two of mine in the barn began windsucking, then 2 more who weren't mine. This was a disaster and I had colic left and right and one actually died from it. I had all kinds of collars and muzzles. They take in air and I would have to deflate them by lunging them until they let off a lot of gas.

All I can say is if he is windsucking, you need to keep him exercised at a trot.......and this means daily so he can expell that air he is taking in. And don't get another horse if he is in fact doing this because they will learn this from each other then you will have two on your hands. I would never ever have a windsucker wthin a mile of my horses. Best of luck to you on this.

 

[AnnaC]

Oh Marty, you really did have problems with that mare didn't you! Although I too would prefer not to have a windsucking horse on the place, many years ago I did take on a livery horse who did it constantly. He came with a companion/best friend of many years who didn't crib and we had him first at livery and then part livery then latterly on full loan, using him for my students to take showing in the summer and hunting during the winter. In the 12 years that he was with me he lived alongside other horses in the yard and none of them ever 'caught' the habit. Guess I was very lucky! Mind you, the noise he made when having a 'session' used to drive me mad!!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Cribbing and wind sucking go hand in hand but a cribber does not necessarily wind suck- it may well go on to do so if the cribbing does not give the relief needed. The pushing down on the post/manger/ whatever is actually typical of the beginning of cribbing- he may just have arrived at this point and not gone any further. I too have had a chronic cribber, and none of my other horse did catch the problem- I think, Marty, you were very unlucky, but it is something you should be aware of . Whilst not all horses do "catch" the habit, but it is a real possibility and it will, eventually, harm the wind and the general health of the animal. Marty is quite right, none of the "cures" work, nor, more importantly, do they address the cause of the problem.

 

[alexb.]

thanks every one again.

i miss described the over bite issue, he actually has an under bite. sorry about that. that is why jennifer {friend we got him from} thought his worn down top teeth were from the bottom. it wasnt until we saw him do this on the pipe rail that the exact shape fits the rail, thats when we figured it all out.....ANYWAY......we have hope, for now any way.....my beautiful wife { yes, working it a little here] woke up thinking about bitter apple spray she used for her horse years ago.....so...we used hand soap rubbed on the bar and it seems to work for now,,,,

i will update as things progress so we can all learn...

also got him salt and mineral blocks today,,,

thanks again every one.

alex

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Alex full marks for trying but it won't work and you need to find out why he is doing it, not look for ways to stop him! The most common cause is ulcers and if not treated they can become serious.

 

[Sandee]

Just a thought to check to see if ulcers might be his trouble. Cheap way to check. Get something like Mylanta ( stomach relief for acid) and give him a dose (use his approx. weight- Tablespoon or so) once morning and night. Use a dispenser or syringe similar to what wormer comes in. If he begins to relax then you know it's ulcer trouble.