Quest (Equest) Wormer

[Helicopter]

I've read several times on this site that Equest should not be used on minis. Why?

I've just become acquainted with the dreaded "encysted cythestomes" and Equest or a course of Panacur are the only effective drenches. I have too many horses to contemplate a course of Panacur.......what's the problem with Equest?

 

[AnnaC]

From what I understand it Equest (Quest) has a VERY low 'overdose' allowance. To use it 'safely' you must take your mini to a vet or weighbridge to get its EXACT weight - do not use a weightape!! You then must measure out EXACTLY the correct amount of wormer for each individual animal. To make a mistake in either the weight of the animal or in the amount given can prove serious, even fatal.

To have to worm with such exact figures needed would be too time consuming and expensive for most mini owners, plus the fact that very few of them would want to put their animals at risk by making an unfortunate mistake!

The above is just what I understand as the reason why Equest is not recommended for use as far as minis are concerned. Other folk might be able to tell you more or correct what I have written.

 

[Wings]

From what I've been told if you dose at over 5 times the weight it can be fatal. But given that is the whole tube why would you want to when you can dose a number of minis with the one tube and safely? I double checked with my vet, he agreed that with my current dosing (at worst twice the weight) he didn't see a problem and I've been using it for years. Will continue to do so as it is the only effective worming against things like large encrusted stongyles.

 

[AnnaC]

Regarding the 'overdose' amount, in the most recent info it states that it is only 3 times the correct amount, but remember that is also considering that you have the EXACT weight of your mini to hand - guessing the exact weight of a mini is actually not that easy.

May I suggest that you have a worm count done on some of your minis to see what shows up worm wise, before you worry about worming or not with Equest.

 

[Genie]

Reble, on the forum, has first hand experience with the danger of Quest. She could give you an account of her episode.

 

[Matt73]

If you get a big jug of Safeguard suspension, it's much more economical

http://www.allivet.com/Safe-Guard-Suspension-p/25883.htm

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

I think Quest, like many new drugs, is incorrectly blamed for adverse temporal events rather than adverse reactions.

With that being said, I never use it nor recommend its use.

For the money, it is not significantly better than any other Avermectin and it tastes AWFUL. If encysted larvae are a problem, then I prefer to use fenbendazole for 5 days.

Dr Taylor

 

[chandab]

If you get a big jug of Safeguard suspension, it's much more economical

http://www.allivet.com/Safe-Guard-Suspension-p/25883.htm

This is what I used. The 1000ml bottle was enough to 5-day double dose my whole mini herd (11 minis - 2 A-size, 9 B-size) with enough left for one more horse. I also purchased a stubby dosing gun, which made the process a little bit easier.

 

[stormy]

You can also get Safegaurd in a large paste tube used for cattle. Looks like a caulking gun...this is what I use as I also have lots of horses!

 

[sfmini]

We usually double dose with Strongid in the spring and fall.

Dr Taylor, is that effective or should we change that program?

Oh, and use Ivermectin every 8 weeks between those dosings.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

We usually double dose with Strongid in the spring and fall.

Dr Taylor, is that effective or should we change that program?

Oh, and use Ivermectin every 8 weeks between those dosings.

Unfortunately, worming schedules should be based on many factors including, but not limited to, herd size, age, density, climate, and previous history.

Double dosing of Strongid was the way we used to use to get rid of tapeworms. With the many 'gold and plus' varieties of Avermectins, I simply don't think its worthwhile. Praziquantel is simply a better tapeworm medicine than is pyrantel.

From afar, I would say that I believe you are using ivermectin too often and too frequently. We do NOT want worm free horses. Instead we want horses who coexist in balance with their worms and create an immunity that prevents clinical signs. I encourage using avermctins as the primary wormer just once every 3 years and using once every fall to treat bots.

Avermectin resistance has been found in other species already and will eventually exist routinely in horses.

Dr Taylor

 

[rimmerpaints]

I will never use quest again. Ive never tried on my minis but two yrs ago used it on my QH and she broke out in hives and had horrible reaction to it. Ended up taking her to the vet and her staying over night.She came home ok but they told me never use that wormer on her again. I was told this wasnt the first time this happened.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

From what I've been told if you dose at over 5 times the weight it can be fatal. But given that is the whole tube why would you want to when you can dose a number of minis with the one tube and safely? I double checked with my vet, he agreed that with my current dosing (at worst twice the weight) he didn't see a problem and I've been using it for years. Will continue to do so as it is the only effective worming against things like large encrusted stongyles.

2.8x overdose is fatal. The issue is ponies and minis have a different fat/weight ratio and therefore are easier to overdose than regular horses. My vet swears by using Quest with minis and has said she's done so for years with hundreds of client minis without an issue. I was surprised to hear it, and she was shocked to hear the mini forum's group opinion of the medicine.

 

[Wings]

2.8x overdose is fatal. The issue is ponies and minis have a different fat/weight ratio and therefore are easier to overdose than regular horses. My vet swears by using Quest with minis and has said she's done so for years with hundreds of client minis without an issue. I was surprised to hear it, and she was shocked to hear the mini forum's group opinion of the medicine.

It is probably like a lot of things. I know people who won't touch strangles vaccinations due to bad reactions, ones who will never use penicilin on any horse after one. There is another wormer over here that a lot of people won't touch due to bad reactions but again I used it for years without an issue and only swaped because a different one worked better in my new worming schedule.

Just like people horse's can have bad reactions due to an individual issue rather then a species wide one. I had one who was allergic to a dandruff shampoo!

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Well, yes, and no.... its not a reaction that kills these horses, its liver failure caused by a medical overdose. Strangles is a horrible vaccine and a good example, but it doesn't have such a small safety allowance and have such horrific effects if OD'ed. A small risk with the strangles vaccine isn't enough to put me off it.... the high level of danger with the dewormer is enough to give me pause and avoid it for other, just as good (not really as good, but you get the idea!) alternatives. Quest (Moxidectin) is a GREAT dewormer, one I will use heavily in my rotations for the foreseeable future. But I'll hesitate and probably avoid it with my pony.

 

[Helicopter]

I used Equest on all my minis (23) plus donkeys with no adverse effects but that was before I read the posts against its use on this forum.

However I have just ''discovered'' encysted whatevers (in print not in fact) and the massive dangers they can pose (colic and quick death) and the only thing that kills them is Equest or 5 days of Panacur. I think 5 days of Panacur with my numbers would not be feasible for one little old lady.

Encysted whatevers do NOT show up in worm counts.

If the dangers of Equest are related to excessive dosing rate and ponies with little fat then really it might not be dangerous to fat ponies with a conservative doser.

Worry, worry, worry!

 

[Bess Kelly]

I was under the impression --- could be wrong --- that it was the fact that the minis/ponies had more fat that the product was a concern. It is "held" within the fat or metabalized differently due to the fat or "something" along that line. I just don't use it, so that ended the concern for me and mine.

 

[Jamie Hunt]

I use quest on my goats with no problem. The issue with the wormer is that the medicine isn't suspended perfectly in the gel. Causing overdoses that can kill your animals. What I do to avoid this is squirt the whole tube out, stir it up very well and suck it up in a syringe with no needle. Then I dose it to the goats at 1/4 a cc per 25 lbs. I like it because it is effective and safe while they are pregnant. This is widely used in the dairy goat community this way, and most people do their own fecals with microscopes in the goat world too. I've never used it for horses.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The issue is the overdose level (X3 will give you a fatal result, whereas it is X 8+ with Ivermectin and to infinity with Fenbendazole) and the fact that Moxidectin is suspended in the body fat and released slowly into the system. If the horse is a certain weight , but not enough of that weight is actual fat, the chemical will not be correctly suspended and an "overdose" amount will be dumped straight into the system.

Different species respond differently, and Moxidectin is definitely NOT safe for Miniature Horses

 

[Jill]

I haven't read anything other than the topic title, but as a horse owner, as someone who has LOTS of miniatures, and someone who owns an older full size horse -- NO way will use anything containing Moxidectin on my horses.

It's not that I do not feel it is a wonderful broad-spectrum dewormner. It's that I understand the dosing threshold on it is SO (!!!) much tighter than on other dewormers. This of course leaves little equines at a disadvantage, but as I understand it, also older equines due to the process of the active ingredient crossing the brain / blood border.

There's no way I will buy a single tube of it. Just not worth the risk, when other dewormers do a very good job for our horses... without the risk of having to call a vet or hospitalize.