Question about AMHA Hardshipping

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I don't think they would need separate registries for the different types to be a true 'breed' registry, other breeds do have a variety of physiques under the same registry. AQHA is an example, they have everything from the long lean 'running' quarter horse to the short blocky little 'bulldog' style and they are all still quarter horses. However if you have a quarter horse mare and breed her to a quarter horse stallion and both are registered it doesn't make any difference if the foal is the size of a Shetland and built like a camel it is still a quarter horse and can be registered as such as long as both parents were.

 

[BeckyG]

it doesn't make any difference if the foal is the size of a Shetland and built like a camel it is still a quarter horse

LOL

Now thats an image LOL

 

[Mona]

I don't think they would need separate registries for the different types to be a true 'breed' registry, other breeds do have a variety of physiques under the same registry. AQHA is an example, they have everything from the long lean 'running' quarter horse to the short blocky little 'bulldog' style and they are all still quarter horses. However if you have a quarter horse mare and breed her to a quarter horse stallion and both are registered it doesn't make any difference if the foal is the size of a Shetland and built like a camel it is still a quarter horse and can be registered as such as long as both parents were.

Yes, this may be so...I am personally not at all familiar with the AQHA Breed Standard, but unless it specifically gives a separate Standard of Perfection for BOTH types in their registry, then again, just like we Miniature Horse breeders are doing, they would be breeding for their personal type prefereance, and not for the actual breed standard.

I am not saying there are not many "types", but when raising animals, and there is a set standard of perfection, THAT is what we are supposed to be breeding for in order to "set" the breed, correct?

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I agree to a point Mona. But don't you find that when people read the breed standards they envision an animal that may look different than what the next reader imagines? I believe that is why we have shows, we pay (as in entry fees) for a judge (or judges) to tell us whether we have interpreted the standard well in that judges opinion or not. Also why a horse that wins under one judge may not win under the next. Even thoroughbreds have different 'looks' depending on what they were bred to do.They remain thoroughbreds whether they are bred for speed or power over jumps and the breeder has a fair amount of room to interpret the standard.

 

[Minimor]

The only thing that will bring AMHA closer to being a true breed is allowing all animals born to registered AMHA animals to retain their papers.
While they may not be allowed to show due to height requirements they would still be no matter what the height AMHA registered minis. Until this happens they are just as far from being a breed today as they were years ago.

EXACTLY!!!

I agree to a point Mona. But don't you find that when people read the breed standards they envision an animal that may look different than what the next reader imagines?

Also exactly right. Look at Morgans. Morgans have a very definite standard of perfection. Morgans even have a woodcut of Justin Morgan--and that woodcut is upheld as the breed's ideal standard/type. In Morgans there are several different families and types of horses--for example, a modern show type Morgan looks quite different from the old Lippitts or the old working western Morgans, and yet you can get a group of Morgan owners together to talk about what their ideal Morgan type is and get completely different examples of which horse most closely resembles that woodcut. The owner of the show type Morgan will insist that his show type horses look exactly like the woodcut. The owner of the working western Morgan will insist that the working western horses are exactly like the woodcut, and the Lippitt owner will stand firm in his opinion that only the Lippitts look like that woodcut. I've been in that discussion a number of times and can tell you that type (and matching type and conformation to a very specific standard of perfection) is still a very subjective thing.

 

[Riverdance]

In any horse breed, be it Quarter horses, shetlands, Arabians, Morgans etc. Everyone is going to have an idea of what their favorite type is. That does not mean that they are wrong or that they are creating a different breed. (even judges like different types) Even in the dog world, a working/hunting lab is going to look very different then its counterpart in the breed/show ring.

Heck, look at the Modern Sheltand verses the regular old time Shetlands. They are all Shetlands, but a world of difference in their apperance.

I was at one time, a Morgan breeder and I prefered the more modern Morgan who could win at halter as well as driving. That is not to say I did not like the old time Justin Morgan look. The University of Vermont kept more to this old time look than any other breeder, and they had some beautiful horses in the past! ( Unfortunatly, some breeders added Saddlebred to their lines, then got caught with DNA. Others added Hackney horse and did not get caught). Thank God for DNA, though we need to go out more than 16 genetic markers if we are going to keep people from cheating.

Anyway, a dog has more value if it is AKC registered and from show stock, then a backyard dog that is someones pet. If AMHA could create a "breed", and the desire of people wanting that breed, is that not a good thing?

As far as keeping papers on oversized Miniatures. Sure, that should be available, but then why would one want to breed to an overly large Mini? It is a very large expense to breed an oversized horse, wait a year to have it foal, then wait several years hoping that it does not go over. I am sure that most breeders have somewhat oversized "A" Minis, say 34" to 35". But there comes a point where they are just too large, to be worth the gamble. Also, even if their get stays under, chances are their get will produce an awful lot of over horses.