Question For Those Who Have Raised Orphan Foals

[Jill]

[SIZE=12pt]For those of you who have raised orphan foals, can you tell me at what age you cut out the milk replacer formula and the milk pellets

[/SIZE]

I'm wondering with "Trooper", when he can go soley on his junior feed (Purina Equine Junior), hay, and water but no milk replacer products. We're having some diarrhea issues which I think could be milk related (vet's been out -- not taking a chance with this little guy)

The vet that came out (one of four in the practice I use) recommended cutting out the PEJ and just having Trooper eat replacer formula, milk pellets, and hay -- that he is too young for feed. He is 7 weeks, 1 day old and the foals I have raised in the past and currently eat plenty of feed at this age (along with nursing). The foal formual replacer says to work towards weaning at 8wks old (which he nearly is). I just don't feel we should be moving back towards more milk products vs. the complete junior feed but I am interested in others' experiences

He's been on BioSponge (with some good results, but not complete remission of the diarrhea). All of his vitals are within normal limits and his energy is through the roof. Very, VERY playful and happy. Had the vet out to help resolve the diarrhea and ended up questioning what to even feed this little turkey

Thanks!

 

[chandab]

While I haven't raised an orphan foal (have raised several orphan calves, to which my vet said liquid replacer for one month, then move to milk pellets for a couple months, then creep feed - I leave creep and hay/grass out, but they mostly eat the milk products til 2-3 months old); most of what I've read says to keep them on a milk replacer product of some sort til 3 months of age, as their digestive system isn't fully capable of handling an all grain/forage diet til then.

So, you might try dropping the liquid milk replacer, but keep the milk pellets. If he's not liking the milk pellets, is there anyway for you to try a different brand? Same with the liquid replacer, although, if you are looking to stop the liquid, you probably don't want to buy another bag.

 

[Jill]

We've tried 3 brands of milk pellets

Urgh

The milk replacer formula, he LOVES, but I think he's supposed to be coming off it (per the bucket's instructions). It's so hard to know what's best to do with conflicting recommendations between the vet and the products...

 

[Miniv]

Jill, I can't remember that it was a specific time........It was a gradual process. Personally, I think your foal will be the one to tell you.......Offer him a choice, allow him to be with others of his own kind, and I can bet he'll be investigating the options you lay out for him.....

 

[chandab]

We've tried 3 brands of milk pellets

Urgh

The milk replacer formula, he LOVES, but I think he's supposed to be coming off it (per the bucket's instructions). It's so hard to know what's best to do with conflicting recommendations between the vet and the products...

Have you tried sprinkling the dry milk replacer powder on his PEJ? If he'll eat it that way, that would be one way to get the milk product into him without you having to pre-mix it with water, as long as he's drinking water on his own. Not as convenient as the pellets, but is basically the same product.

What milk replacer pellets have you tried? Just curious.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Last year I had an orphan filly that was on milk replacer, no pellets were available here so I don't know about them, but, I was advised by my vet to make the mix weaker (less powder, more water) if she developed loose stools. My vets explanation was that extra water would never hurt her but if the 'milk' was too rich she would get diarrhea. I had to dilute it a bit more than what the bucket's instructions read and she firmed up almost overnight when I did. As for weaning, I kept her on the milk replacer until she was 4 months old but after she was eating her grain and hay well I gradually reduced the amount she was getting first by 1/4 then 1/2 then 3/4 and finally around her 4th month I took her off of it altogether. She has thrived and is the picture of health at 14 months, lots of attitude from this little girl and you'd never guess she had a rocky start.

 

[FoRebel]

At 3 months we started to wean our little filly off milk replacer and got her onto pej, hay and water. By the time she was weaned she was 4 months old. We weaned week by week, it was easier on her. You'd never guess now as a yearling that she was a bottle baby. She's a pocket pet though... A total pest!

 

[Jill]

Thanks for the input!

I should hear about the bloodwork today and then know if we are dealing with a "bug" causing the diarrhea, or something he's eating and that will make this easier I hope.

The only way I can get him to eat the milk pellets is to mix them in with his PEJ. He will then eat them, slowly, with the PEJ. Without the milk pellets in it, he will eat the PEJ enthusiastically. He will gladly drink all the formula we give him, but the package says to be drastically reducing it the last week and to be off it by next week. He has been getting PEJ since he was 2wks old.

We've tried Foal Lac, Progressive, and Mare's Match pellets and I don't know of any other brand or place to find another brand of milk pellets and not optmistic he will decide any other brand is good at this point.

He's been getting BioSponge, which seemed to have really been working until yesterday when the liquid diarrhea returned. Vet came out again and he's obnoxiously energetic and all physical parameters are normal. Maybe the bloodwork will help... I guess I've got two issues, the diarrhea (and what is causing it) and what he should be eating at this time.

Since I don't know the cause of the diarrhea, he's not allowed near our other foals right now and not really looking to put another horse with him before we hear what the bloodwork says (hopefully this morning).

Thanks, folks! He's a special guy to us and other than an occassional nasty butt, he is looking very nice, too.

 

[MBennettp]

With Legacy, we slowed down on the milk pellets and added more Equine Jr. when she was 2 months old. We gradually fazed out the pellets until she was totally on the Jr.

I just want to tell you that you have done a wonderful job with your colt. I know how difficult it is.

Mary

 

[Genie]

I have a friend who raised an orphan (actually, she raised it for another owner who could not cope) and if you would like me to connect you with her, p.m. me and I will get you in touch.

 

[LisaB Ozark]

Jill, I have raised 2 orphan foals. I kept both of them on foal lac (mixed with water) until they were 4 months. Over the last month I diluted it a little more each week until it was almost all water. My vet was concerned that we keep liquids going into the foals (we are pretty hot here in Arkansas) and did not want us to wean early.

We did not feed straight Equine Jr - we always mixed it with our feed that I have made (oats, bran pellets, alfalfa pellets and a little pulverized corn, minerals, molasses). I have always only used it as a supplement with the babies. None of my foals (orphan or not) will eat the milk pellets.

Hope you get your little guy regulated.

Lisa

 

[ChrystalPaths]

A question Jill please? Is he alone or with the group? He is coming of age where socialization is something he may well want. He is so adorable, hope you figure it out. I give you a standing ovation for your (and all orphan owners) hard work and love.

 

[palsminihorses]

We are raising a filly on the Mare's Match milk replacer. She was born April 12th. Her dam never dropped her milk.......Domperidone didn't work on this mare! Anyway, little April is now eating the Mare's Match milk pellets mixed in with Nutrena Youth, a little Calf Manna, and steamed crimped oats. She and her mama go out to the pasture during the daytime with the other mares/foals. We bring them in at night so that April can eat her grain during the night. We have boards set up so that her mama can't get to April's feed! LOL April is weaning herself from her bottle. She has only been taking the bottle in the morning and at 10:00 P.M. at night. Well, last night she didn't take the bottle, and she didn't take it this morning.............so I'm guessing that she is getting plenty to eat with the pasture and her feed. I make sure that she has access to water at all times.

I guess my point is that your colt might tell you when he doesn't want the milk replacer.

Pam C.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

In theory a foal can be "weaned" form milk as soon as it's milk hairs (soft hairs on the nose) are replaced by wirier hairs...this means the digestive juices in the stomach have changed over from Rennin, which digests milk, to pepsin that digests mature proteins (grass, grain etc).

The reason we do not do this is because the emotional bond is so strong it would harm the mare and the foal, and so we allow for a more gradual process.

I have always had my orphans eating (as you do) by one month and pretty much weaned by two, so, so long as he is not actually mentally dependant on the milk (can't remember whether he is on a bottle...bottle babies are far more dependant) then it would be safe to start weaning him.

I would not dilute the milk more than is recommended on the bag, it is not safe to do this with human babies so I am not at all sure it is safe to do it with equines.

As has been suggested you could sprinkle his milk powder on the feed, BUT you must be sure he is drinking plenty of fresh water...he will need to drink at least as much water as he is presently drinking milk.

If you are happy with all this I would go ahead and start weaning him.

If you are bottle feeding I would suggest offering him a bottle of boiled water just before you give him his milk, he may be greedy, he may be thirsty, it may just be an emotional thing, but if he is guzzling his milk feed it will not help his digestion and giving water can often just take the edge off.

Even if he is on a bowl/bucket you can still try this.

Good Luck!!

 

[Jill]

Thanks, ladies

He drinks from a bowl. We never had much luck getting him to take a bottle which is what I tried at first but not for very long. He took to a bowl really quickly, though.

Concerning his diarrhea (which has obviously concerned me lately), his bloodwork is normal. Will continue the BioSponge and Pepto Bismol, but he's acting VERY good. Extremely happy and playful. His physical was all normal, except hypermotile gut noises, and he's well hydrated.

Our current plan is to go back to mixing the milk pellets in with his PEJ (about 50/50) and this really cuts down both in the volume he eats and obviously that means he's eating less than 1/2 the PEJ he was getting there for what he may recall as a shining moment in time (did I mention, he loves PEJ?). He'll also get a bowl of formula milk at night (he's supposed to wean off that in a few days per the instructions).

In hindsight, from now on with horse issues, I am keeping a journal as to when I change this or that because right now -- it is a blur. At this time, I do not know the sequence of events as to when the diarrhea started and when we made this and that change to his feeding schedule. I'm thinking his diarrhea possibly started when I stopped mixing milk pellets in with his Purina Equine Junior. And since we stopped mixing, he has been really digging into the PEJ (loves it) and we've been feeding him pretty much whenever I see his bowl is empty or nearly so. I think I just fed him too much and that his body isn't yet ready to digest the quantity of PEJ I was feeding. Hoping so, anyway.

But about keeping a journal of irregular horse issues, that I will do from now on. I always think "I'll remember this" and then when other things happen, it is hard to remember which came first. I got smart a year or so ago and started keeping my farm call vet instructions from when we've had an issue and the vet comes out. Those are good to refer back to (ie, I will remember "Derby had this same thing before that Eclipse has now." but not remember the exact instructions / dosing / etc.). If I had a written record of when I changed things and when we first found he had a loose stool, it would make my detective work now much easier.

I sure do love this stink weed and I appreciate everyone's ideas!!!

PS if the diarrhea doesn't stop, has anyone used imodium / loperamide in foals? I asked my vet and she said not to, yet I think others have had good luck with it...

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

.I would not dilute the milk more than is recommended on the bag, it is not safe to do this with human babies so I am not at all sure it is safe to do it with equines.

I think this is usually because human infants are getting the majority of their nutritional needs meet thro the formula and diluting it will mean they may not be getting enough.

I would suggest offering him a bottle of boiled water just before you give him his milk, he may be greedy, he may be thirsty, it may just be an emotional thing, but if he is guzzling his milk feed it will not help his digestion and giving water can often just take the edge off.

Even if he is on a bowl/bucket you can still try this.

Good Luck!!

Basically the same thing IMO as diluting the formula offered to begin with.

Jill, I hope you figure it out anyway. Just like human babies they can keep you geussing (but are worth it anyway

)