question regarding training fees

[txminipinto]

I NEVER expect to keep the futurity or incentive money on any of my client horses. In fact, I think it's pretty rude! This year I did sell a futurity nominated filly and showed it for the new owners. She did win some futurity money and I gave it to them, they then returned it back to me for showing their horses (not in my barn) at Nationals. It was nice and appreciative gesture since I do not charge my current clients to show their "outside" horses.

I would definately rethink any trainer that wants a portion of the purse.

 

[hhpminis]

There are trainers that do take a % of winnings. Personally I dont ask for it. However, if they do, this should be stated ahead of time in a contract.

I would highly suggest that you ask for a contract, read it and both sign it before the horse is left on the premise. This is just good business and saves things like this from becoming a problem later. Also, if there is part of the contract that you dont like, then you need to discuss it, and if you come to a compromise, write that in the contract, and each initial it. If someone inquires about training, I will generally send them a contract to look over so they know what is involved before they bring the horse.

A 10% commission for selling a horse is pretty standard throughout the industry as well.

 

[Mnmini]

Question: Say I breed my stallion & my mare, futurity nominate the foal - I foal out the mare, wean the foal then send it to a trainer to be shown in the futurity class. I pay the trainer all his/her fees for training - pay for the show & all it's fees. The foal wins in the futurity class & wins $$ - Should that trainer be entitled to any of those winnings and why??

It depends upon any agreement you have in place with the trainer. It may not be the norm in the mini world, but it IS the norm in the QH world. Typically, the trainer earns 20% of the earnings for halter/pleasure/hunter under saddle futurity earnings. In the cutting world fee schedules can be set up quite differently. It is fairly common for owners of competitive horses to offer the trainer all winnings. The trainer forfeits monthly training and hauling fees in those instances though.

As to the why? Most owners look upon working for the winnings, or sharing the winnings as an added incentive for the trainer to "give it his/her all," and ensures that they have a vested interest in the outcome of the futurity, rather than just stringing a client along month after month with excuses as to why their horse isn't ready to show, or isn't competitive....YET.

 

[Janis]

I want to thank all that replied to this topic. I thought that the idea of a trainer getting a % of the $$ for a futurity winner was just "greedy"! I was hoping that maybe someone would show me where my thinking was wrong, but my mind hasn't changed. I don't think the trainer has any rights to $$ won by a horse that they are already being paid to train & show.

Now in some cases I do agree with paying a % of the sale of a horse that they helped sell. If the trainer had spoken to people and actually sold the horse, then yes, they should get a %. But, if they had nothing to do with the sale whatsoever, then no, I don't believe they are due a % - even if the they have the horse in training. Right is right & wrong is wrong. That's my opinion.

Thanks Everyone!!

 

[runamuk]

We show Tennessee Walking and Spotted Saddle Horses...and the trainer keeps the monetary winnings. It's standard in the industry.

That's downright crazy!!!!! You pay THEM...you pay the FEES and THEY take the money...I think I would be changing that "rule". OH!

That is fairly common in a few big breeds....and it is the norm in dog's.......in fact you pay your handler EXTRA to show in group and BIS and they get any winnings.

 

[Cathy_H]

I have never heard of a trainer keeping "won money", from a horse they didn't have monetary interest in..

......... I have & I know the person that it happend to.......... Also if you do not attend a horse show where your horse is showing & you are told your horse did not win anything you might want to check with the show people to verify that...... All money won should be the horse owners unless prior agreements were made.

 

[Heart L Ranch]

"Also if you do not attend a horse show where your horse is showing & you are told your horse did not win anything you might want to check with the show people to verify that......"

If you can't trust your trainer...... you better find a new one!

I also want to state that I do not receive any Futurity, Stakes or other Incentive money, my contract states that owner gets all.

 

[Cathy_H]

If you can't trust your trainer...... you better find a new one!

........... Guess so, but because of that & more they find it hard to trust trainers now. Seems some clients get treated right & some don't....Thing is you don't know which category you got put in until after the fact.

 

[Belinda]

........... Guess so, but because of that & more they find it hard to trust trainers now.

Gosh I really hate that it has come to this point with trainers

I am hoping it not wide spread that people feel this way.. There are lots of really good and Honest trainers in our industry.

I have been very lucky to have clients that do Trust me , and in return I try and do the best job possible for them. My turn over rate ( so to speak ) in clients is not very quick, as I have several clients I have worked for years, and some very special ladies that I have shown for , going on 22 years..

As for as Trainers and Prize $$ it is not uncommon for Trainers to receive 10% of the winnings of any money classes that they actually show in .. I myself have not ever put it in a contract , but have had many clients send me a % of the winnings, When My husband was actively riding Races, it was automatic that they received 10% of anything the horse they rode won.. And yes they got a fee for riding also.. When I rode Barrel horses I always got 10% of $$ won... I guess it is all in what we are in the habit of doing.....

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I think maybe some of the issue is that some mini people have never had or shown large horses so many things that are really pretty industry standard are just not known?

Not only in winnings but in a ten percent finders fee and/or sellers fee when finding a new horse for a client or selling a horse for a client - if they happen to both be clients then the trainer makes money from each on that sale

I dont think it is "unfair" as again it is industry standard and buying/selling a horse for what the client wants to get/pay does take time.

I personally think that there are more good trainers then bad and that and I dont mean this the way it may sound but that the feeling on this board about trainers really is not representative of the breed as a whole.

 

[Just Us N Texas]

Before Minis, we had Thoroughbreds, and QH's. I am very well acquainted with the % fees of both. An owner in TB's generally give a percentage to their trainers and their jockeys. Heck, we used to tip the gate men even to assure that our horses got out of the gate right. Of course you pay your trainers, jockeys, riders, handlers, etc their fees in the larger breeds, but your winning purses are generally much larger than futurity monies, or prize monies in the minis. But coming from the large breeds, I am not surprised or shocked by trainers asking or expecting a percentage.

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

I think it would be fair to give the trainer a 10% commission if the horse won the Futurity Class. It was their hard work and handling that help to ensure the win.

 

[hhpminis]

If you can't trust your trainer...... you better find a new one!

........... Guess so, but because of that & more they find it hard to trust trainers now. Seems some clients get treated right & some don't....Thing is you don't know which category you got put in until after the fact.

Cathy, I am really sorry that your friends got treated unfairly. I dont know the circumstances and am not going to presume anything or try to explain it away.

What I would like to say though is many trainers, I would go as far to say most, are fair and honest and handle their clients as well as the horses they entrust to them with respect.

Like I said before, it is a business relationship, often it becomes more than just business partners as many of my clients are also friends, but still there should always be a contract stating these type of things. If it is not covered in the contract than it has no relevance.

Sometimes situations come up that I realize I need to adjust my contract for the next year but I stick to my agreement for the current year and bite the bullet.

As far as whether a horse goes to a show or not, it is not hard to find out as between the online results, people that you know, and club websites, it would be pretty stupid to either take or not take a horse that was supposed to go or not go.

Please dont generalize all of us as the majority of us are really pretty darn nice people. Unfortunately in any avenue of life there are good and bad examples.

 

[wpsellwood]

I know that alot of them get a percentage of the futurity. I think it depends. When I trained racehorses you got all your training fees plus 10 percent of the horses winnings and the jockey got 10 percent of the winnings. It was nice if you won a million dollar futurity

10 percent of the 600 grand was very nice tip.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I think it would be fair to give the trainer a 10% commission if the horse won the Futurity Class. It was their hard work and handling that help to ensure the win.

I totally agree. Not that I'm excited about paying out more money - using a trainer isn't cheap - but I think the trainer can make the difference between a win and the gate. I don't have a problem giving them 10% of the money won.

As far as "trusting" the trainer, I guess it's like any business. There are good ones and bad ones. I think the majority, at least of the ones I've used or met, are trustworthy professionals.

You just have to find the one whose style and goals match yours. There are several good trainers who frequent this board. I bet they wouldn't mind answering questions about what's a common practice and what isn't. If you want to learn more about how a training contract works, try PMing Belinda, Annette, Adam, Becky, Charlotte or James...just to name a few from the forum. I have no doubt they'd all be helpful and trustworthy.

(Doesn't mean others aren't, those are just the ones I personally know of

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