Questions about mares aborting

[uwharrie]

As you know our only pregnant mare aborted her foal she was at 232 days. She was vaccinated the same week she was bred ( she came to us bred earlier in the week but still due vaccinations.

She was vaccinated with Rhino at 152 days and 216 days

She came to us very overweight so we worked all summer getting the weight off while maintaining a high quality diet.

The last Rhino shot was two weeks prior to the abortion and two days prior she was running around the bigger paddock jumping and bucking. ( she only did this for about 5 minutes and is something she does anytime she is turned out.

The cord was very twisted on the fetus but I could not tell if it happened before and the foal died. or happened after the fetus was expelled and before the plancenta ( the mare was very muddy amd obviously had rolled a lot)

Vet says it should be fine to rebreed her as soon as we are ready. I am just scared to go thru this again. So here are my questions for those who have gone thru this.

How common is aborting in minis? ( I sure have seen many of them the last few weeks on LB)

Does anyone know the risk of vaccinating with Rhino as opposed to vaccinating? I am looking actual data.

Is it likely her running around caused the cord to twist? Do those who have bred mares keep them more confined the last few months?

Thanks in advance. I know I will never really know what happened but I would like to be better prepared if we opt to breed her again.

 

[Reble]

Sorry we sometimes never no the answers, and might never happen again.

I do not think the running and bucking had anything to do with it, unless she had a bad fall.

Shots everyone here will have a different answer.

Once you have that first foal, the loss is much easier.

Remember you are going to hear and see more of everything being on a miniature horse forum.

 

[Joanne]

Unfortunately these occur and often in the time period you describe.

It is always heartbreaking and makes you wonder why you breed horses at all. I do feel better when my live foal of they year is born after loosing a foal, but I feel the best after the mare that lost hers has her live foal.

It has been rare for me to have them abort twice in a row, but giving her Regumate may be something to discuss with your veterinarian.

 

[Carolyn R]

Some will say it may be linked to the rhino shot. I have vaccinated mares a few months befor foaling without any ill effects. I have a mare that was sold but still here and miscarried (twisted cord) last year. She was around the 7 month mark. Sometimes it just happens, not much comfort in that, I know. As long as there isn't any infection or internal distress involved, it is typical for them to be able to be rebred after a month or two. My preference would be to wait 2-3 months for nicer weather, and aim for a spring foal.

Carolyn

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Honestly it may never happen again.

That being said I had one mare abort two years in a row....first one was a true abortion, second one was a technical (full term) abortion.

This mare then foaled without any problems for the rest of her life.

After the second one I said "No more" but she broke in with the stallion and took matters into her own hands!!!

Then I had one little mare who had had foals with no problems at all suddenly abort I lost two that year, but I am pretty sure that was down to a mixture of bad luck and worms, and neither mare aborted again.

It is tough when something like this happens, and you do need to stand back and decide if you can take it or not, but if you decide to go ahead and breed her I would make a pact with yourself that you will not beat yourself up if things go wrong again.

After all, the mare passed the foal OK on her own, and she is fine now, right??

And that has to be the important thing.

I have always wanted to breed, so I stuck with it, but if you are not so driven, I am sure there are loads of other things you can do with her, she does not have to be bred

 

[targetsmom]

I am really, really sorry and I DO feel your pain and know how scared you must be. I am afraid that I am more or less in the same boat, so anytime you want to PM me, feel free.

We bred our first mares (2 of them) in 2006 and we are STILL waiting for our first live foal. We had one that didn't settle, one had a false pregnancy, then last year one aborted at around 9 months and the other one went full term. We have re-bred both of the ones that were bred last year and are on pins and needles and second guessing ourselves all the time. We knew going in the this wasn't for the faint of heart and we keep telling ourselves that it will get better. I have been doing as much research as I can because we ARE in this for the long haul. Good luck to you!!!

 

[sedeh]

I don't think her bucking and kicking up her heels had anything to do with her aborting. I believe the mares are much better off if they can excercise at will. I leave mine in the pasture in a "herd" environment until about a month before they're due. Even when they're "in the barn" they get regular turn-out time during the day. I've heard different theories about the twisted cord, it's kind of what came first the chicken or the egg thing. One theory is that the placenta detaches and this puts the foal in distress and it starts spinning and twisting the cord. Another is it was an active foal and twisted the cord and that cut off it's blood supply and it dies. Breeding minis is tough sometimes. I've been fairly lucky(so far) and have only had one abortion(she aborted the morning after her Pneumobort K shot) but I'm always nervous this time of year.

 

[Alisha514]

Its very hard to deal with a mare aborting when you have know idea what caused it. Last yr my mare aborted about 4-6 weeks to early. To this day I still have no idea what caused it. She was overweight when I got her and I had put her on a diet before she foaled. Sometimes I wonder if it was because she was overweight. We did breed her back and she is due in April. I worry every day that she may abort again.

Alisha

 

[uwharrie]

Thanks guys for the info.

that is the great thing about these sites, I know the info is not always 100% but I have found that collectively you can learn alot from what folks have to offer.

Have bred dogs for over 20 yrs I know just how tough you need to be to breed. I once lost and entire litter of pups over a three day period that were less than a week old to Herpes virus. It was the most horrible thing I have ever gone through as a breeder. ( and I have seen my share of heartaches) Nothing before or since has ever compared to that. ( it was not just losing the pups but how the virus affects them and the lack of ability to do anything about it)

I had a friend that bred Wiems that totally quit breeding after loosing a litter to Herpes.

I think with this foal it just came so unexpected. I wanted to be totally sure it was not something I did or could prevent. Not so much to beat myself up about it but to be sure if it was something I could prevent that it not happen again.

The good think is the mare is doing great, you would never even know it had happened to look at her and how she acts. and she had 4 healthy foals in the past, and she is young (8yrs) Most likely I will rebreed her in the spring as I really do not want a Jan/Feb baby ( especially since we have had our second snow in 2 weeks!)

 

[MountainMeadows]

Unfortunately you will never know exactly what caused this abortion. That said, if you can breed this mare to a different stallion, you might not have the problem again if it was by chance a congenital issue - if it is placentitus you may see it again and might want to have the mare flushed a couple of times prior to breeding and then have a caslix (sp) performed to help keep her "clean" - and of course, if you see any signs of premature bagging be sure to go the Regumate/SMZ route. Some mares are prone to this problem and are put on Regumate from conception thru delivery but you won't know that your mare has a problem until you go thru it again unfortunately.

It is unlikely that running and bucking caused a prblem, however, if she took a kick that injured the foal it might have resulted in the fetus doing a lot of spinning and then the cord twist problem -- I have seen this before and sometimes you can see an area on the placenta that was obviously damaged, sometimes you can't - and again, sometimes it is congenital which means that the baby just wasn't meant to be and Mother Nature took her course . . .

If the mare was mine, I would have her on SMZ for 2 weeks, then get her cultured before breeding, possibly flushed, and then breed to a different stallion and see what happens next year -- and as we all do, cross your fingers for a healthy birth 11 months later.

Sadly, this is part of breeding, and in miniatures it seems that we have more than our fair share of abortions.

Stacy

 

[uwharrie]

She has had two healthy foals by the same stallion ( with previous owner) as well as two other foals by different stallions.

I know she was not kicked as we were standing in the paddock when she was running around. It could have been placentitus however the placenta did look normal and she did not bag up.

My vet did not recommend putting her on anitbiotics unless she started showing signs of infection, I will talk with her about flushing.

Thanks for the additional info.

Unfortunately you will never know exactly what caused this abortion. That said, if you can breed this mare to a different stallion, you might not have the problem again if it was by chance a congenital issue - if it is placentitus you may see it again and might want to have the mare flushed a couple of times prior to breeding and then have a caslix (sp) performed to help keep her "clean" - and of course, if you see any signs of premature bagging be sure to go the Regumate/SMZ route. Some mares are prone to this problem and are put on Regumate from conception thru delivery but you won't know that your mare has a problem until you go thru it again unfortunately.
It is unlikely that running and bucking caused a prblem, however, if she took a kick that injured the foal it might have resulted in the fetus doing a lot of spinning and then the cord twist problem -- I have seen this before and sometimes you can see an area on the placenta that was obviously damaged, sometimes you can't - and again, sometimes it is congenital which means that the baby just wasn't meant to be and Mother Nature took her course . . .

If the mare was mine, I would have her on SMZ for 2 weeks, then get her cultured before breeding, possibly flushed, and then breed to a different stallion and see what happens next year -- and as we all do, cross your fingers for a healthy birth 11 months later.

Sadly, this is part of breeding, and in miniatures it seems that we have more than our fair share of abortions.

Stacy