Questions On Grullas

[kayla221444]

Do grullas carry the creme gene like buckskins, smokey black & palomino's? Curious I have been looking into purchasing a filly, the person told me it was a buckskin frame, but from the foal photo's it looks sorrel frame, then updated photos it looks Bay frame. I had asked the person about it, because I noticed the sire was a Black frame, and dam was a sorrel, so knew there was no possible way it was buckskin unless sire carried Creme gene, then I was told the sire was a smokey black, so I looked the sire of the buckskin frame, up on AMHR stub book to see what they had down for her sires parents colors...to see if he really was a somkey black, the sire of the smokey black was a grulla and his dam was black (her sire was black and dam was grey). Hope I didn't confuse anyone..I understand it! LOL

 

[Jill]

Yes, you could have dun factor and the cream gene in the same horse easily. I think one of my perlinos is dun (can't tell for sure due to how her pinto white falls) and I currently own a buckskin mare with dun factor (and previously owned another that had it). You could have a smokey grulla/o for sure. Dun factor is kind of like pinto or appy or grey... it is something that (given the right genetic background) can appear with any color horse.

NOTE: grulla/o's can carry the cream gene and be smokey grulla/o, but that's just a possibility. They do not have to carry the cream dilute and most don't... just like most black horses are black horses, but some of them are actually smokey black a/k/a black + cream (hope that makes sense)!

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

No, grullas do not "normally" carry creme. A grulla is considered part of the dun family of colors.

Now, though, a grulla colored horse can carry creme unseen, since grulla is black + dun and you can't see creme on a black horse.

From all your descriptions, it doesn't sound like she is buckskin, unless the creme had been hidden for more than two generations, which is always possible!

But then, that's assuming the Studbook is correct, too!

Lucy

 

[tagalong]

But then, that's assuming the Studbook is correct, too!

Very true - I see many duns or sooty buckskins mislabelled as grulla/grullo...

 

[PaintedMeadows]

Does anyone have a picture of a smokey grulla? I would love to see it. I have a grulla here (i'm pretty sure) but she is really dark, almost black and has a whole bunch of wild colors going on in her family with duns and appies and possibly cream. Just wondering the the smokey grullas come out darker.

 

[icspots]

I've seen the opposite hold true too, where grulla's are misregistered as buckskin. Duns can be kinda wierd in that they can continue to change for a few years. I have a 6 year old mare that was born a very obvious red dun pinto, by the time she was a yearling she looked like a golden buckskin dun (yes mane, tail, and dorsal stripe went from bright red to black!) by the time she was 4, she was obviously a grulla, her face is nearly black. She had her first foal last year and that little stinker is doing the same thing, born red dun, now she looks buckskin dun and I'd be willing to bet she ends up grulla. I've just started playing it safe and reg. them as duns! But the whole point has already been made, you are going under the assumption that the horses were correctly registered and the stud book is right. Sometimes people just don't feel the need to do color corrections.

If they are advertising her as a buckskin, maybe she is evolving and will actually end up grulla!

 

[kayla221444]

Since buckskin is what I am wanting, should I get her tested for the creme gene? She would have to have it to be considered a buckskin right? Anything else I should test for, or maybe the person has proof that the sire is smokey black ?

 

[Mona]

To be buckskin you would need to make sure she tests + for agouti + cream + black

 

[love_casper]

Well I wouldn't put much faith into what the studbook thinks the colors are. So don't assume anything is true unless you have pictures of each horse.

Buckskins are Black + Agouti + Cream, so test for anything that isn't already obvious. If you can't tell what color she is, test for all three.

 

[kayla221444]

Her sire is black ( I seen him) so that would mean she has the black gene just not in homozygous form correct so wouldn't have to test for that, and I assume she carries red as well as her dam was sorrel, or can she not have the red gene if shes truely a buckskin? I have never been so confused on BUCKSKIN's before, but when you throw in frame overo, it kind of disorts the color a little, so you can't clearly tell!

 

[Minimor]

Anything else I should test for, or maybe the person has proof that the sire is smokey black ?

Even if the sire is for sure a smokey black, it doesn't mean he passed his cream gene on to his daughter. He could be smokey black and she could test negative for cream.
Likewise, just because the sire is a black doesn't necessarily mean the filly is a black--unless that sire is homozygous black. He could be black and still be carrying one red gene--that's how you can end up with a chestnut foal from two black parents. You indicate that this filly has at times looked sorrel, or maybe bay--your best bet would be to test for black + cream + agouti since it's a buckskin that you are wanting.