Radical change in mini's behavior-- Update post #14

[ljc]

I've had Ollie since he was 11 months old (he's now a three-year-old gelding) & got him from his breeder (La Vista Farm), so I know every bit of his history. He's always had a tiny bit of attitude, but nothing terrible. We've had a couple of "come to Jesus" talks when he's gotten pushy once or twice in the last two years but those have been very rare occasions and he's never repeated the behavior. He's always been a perfect gentleman in terms of handling - easy to catch and halter, great in cross-ties, good for farrier, quick to learn longeing, clips, loads, in short, a wonderful little guy to work with.

Since day one, he's been a little funny about his head - quick motions above him tend to startle him and I've had his vision checked (nothing found wrong). He seemed to get a little worse this year (flinching away from motion near his head) and the vet and I thought maybe while he was losing his baby teeth and new ones were coming in, he was a bit sore. Even at his "worst,"however, he never was a problem to handle.

A couple of months ago, Ollie decided he didn't want my husband to put the fly mask on him. I actually thought it was pretty funny - hubby could do all the other horses just fine (including the other mini) but Ollie said, "I think not." I laughed because I could walk right out there and put the mask on just fine. (And it wasn't as if hubby was doing it wrong or being rough. Far from it - he's very cautious and gentle around the horses.)

Last week, howeve, Ollie wouldn't let me put the fly mask on. I didn't want to make a huge deal of it so got the halter to put on him. Nope, he wouldn't let me put the halter on. This was a total aberration on his part - he's usually sticking his nose into the halter before I have it ready! He took off and ran around like a crazy mini and I said fine, you can just keep running. I hate to say it, he outlasted me. He wouldn't get tired - he just kept running. So, no doubt ruining him for all time, I got a bucket of grain, walked up to him and put the halter on.

Since then, however, I have been unable to put the fly mask on him. The only way I now can get a halter on without a huge battle is to put a halter on his pasture buddy and start to take him out - then I can put one on Ollie. What's even stranger, however, is that he won't even let me come up to him and give him scratches - I would spend many minutes every day giving mane scratches and he loved it. Now, I can barely get near him - he flinches away from any touch.

Once the halter is on, however, he's normal. Fine to groom, fine to longe, fine to go jogging (we go around the neighborhood).

I did check his ears and all around his head and neck to see if something was bleeding or if there were burrs or whatever. Couldn't find anything.

The vet is coming out in a few days for bi-annual shots and of course I'll have him give Ollie a thorough examination.

Any ideas? Suggestions? I'm tearing my hair out - in 50 years of working with horses, I've never had one do something like this - it's almost as if he's undergone a complete personality transformation.

 

[disneyhorse]

Is he still a stallion?

Stallions often have odd behavior changes... particularly with him coming into puberty and this being breeding season.

If it's a gelding, then I don't know?

Either way, he could just be testing you.

Andrea

 

[ljc]

He's a gelding but a studly one. When I first got him, he tried to mount me! My first thought was yes, he's testing me, but his behavior seems a bit extreme for that - not letting me scratch him or other things he loves. On the other hand, once the halter is on, he's accepting of everything (still not the fly mask, however).

 

[AppyLover2]

I haven't a clue but would have the vet check his ears very closely. Could be something going on down there that you can't see.

 

[Carolyn R]

I have had it go both ways. Gelded a extremely studdy colt, calmed right down, went on to be owned and shown by a youth and is doing great, on the other hand, I gelded a mellow boy and he is in a home where the females do not consistantly discipline him. Great for the boys, but is a bit high spirited for the girls.

If he is being submissive once he is in halter, and is not still showing aggression towards you while you are in his territory, I honestly would not be extremely concerned.

I have had young horses go through stages, I wanna be a pocket pet, no I am a horse and want to be free, no I want to be a herd mates shadow........

I would reinforce the idea of "look, you come to me, you get a treat" but I would leave the halter outside the pen, then there's no reason for them to try to create a game out of it. Then hang the halter out of your back pocket, approach, gently catch with your arm around the neck, give a few scratches, then proceed by placing the halter on him. It takes the game out of the scenario.

I do have horses that occassionally like to play this game, ignoring them and loving on another usually brings them right over to me.

 

[bevann]

I have had it go both ways. Gelded a extremely studdy colt, calmed right down, went on to be owned and shown by a youth and is doing great, on the other hand, I gelded a mellow boy and he is in a home where the females do not consistantly discipline him. Great for the boys, but is a bit high spirited for the girls.

If he is being submissive once he is in halter, and is not still showing aggression towards you while you are in his territory, I honestly would not be extremely concerned.

I have had young horses go through stages, I wanna be a pocket pet, no I am a horse and want to be free, no I want to be a herd mates shadow........

I would reinforce the idea of "look, you come to me, you get a treat" but I would leave the halter outside the pen, then there's no reason for them to try to create a game out of it. Then hang the halter out of your back pocket, approach, gently catch with your arm around the neck, give a few scratches, then proceed by placing the halter on him. It takes the game out of the scenario.

I do have horses that occassionally like to play this game, ignoring them and loving on another usually brings them right over to me.

I would contact Bonnie Fogg and have her do a reading on him.I've used her several times and she has been right on with the issue with the horse.Good luck and keep us posted on your progress

 

[Pam Crise]

I would contact Bonnie Fogg and have her do a reading on him.I've used her several times and she has been right on with the issue with the horse.Good luck and keep us posted on your progress

Bonnie is great. Maybe a chiropractor. My mare does this type of thing when her poll is out. If it has been out for awhile she will avoid being caught, avoiding work and more pain.

 

[Ann knight]

I would have his teeth checked . Dental problems can change behaviour ...just a thought

I would also question the bi-annual shots , sounds like overkill to me but I believe we overvaccinate . We don't get vaccinated every year why should our animals. I would be happy to send some info if you would like just pm me .

Ann

 

[ljc]

I would have his teeth checked . Dental problems can change behaviour ...just a thought

I would also question the bi-annual shots , sounds like overkill to me but I believe we overvaccinate . We don't get vaccinated every year why should our animals. I would be happy to send some info if you would like just pm me .

Ann

I should have clarified. The vet is coming out for the big horses' shots. The minis get the minimum, trust me! I've been working with a wonderful equine vet/dentist (Heather Mack for those on the west coast) recommended to me by my minis' breeder (Susan Hopmans from LaVista Farm). Heather is excellent and was just here six weeks ago. Which is not to say something might have come up since then. Heather passes through here twice each year and I'm so lucky to have her. Unfortunately, she won't be the one coming out next week but my "regular" vet will do a thorough workup. I think I'll have blood drawn and do a full workup, as well as maybe checking Ollie's testosterone level (just in case).

My farrier was out trimming feet today and he suggested having the chiroropractor out because he thought Ollie's C2 vertebrae was out of whack. Farrier is really into body work/massage and he's the one who got me started using an alternative vet/chirorpractor/acupuncturist for my big horses. So I've put a call into Dr. Greg Ugarte (from Santa Barbara to those around here who might know him).

And I sent Bonnie a message.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm open to any and all!!!!

Liz

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Hmm, I'd be suspicious that your farrier is right and have his back checked out. Behavior like that smacks of him getting strange tingling or burning or pinching sensations from nerve pain so it feels unpleasant when you touch him. Get the spine realigned and free the nerves and the reluctance to be handled goes away.

Leia

 

[Windhaven]

I have read articles about brain tumors, that made horses act weird. Just putting in a suggestion in case nothing else turns out to be the problem. Good luck and hope you find out his problem.

 

[ljc]

Thanks everyone. I'm having a reading with Bonnie tomorrow and will be interested in what she says. I didn't realize I hadn't included one relevant fact in this whole thing - the first time he wouldn't let me put the fly mask on and then the halter, he turned around and fired out with both hind legs, nailing me. This was from a horse who has NEVER shown any signs of kicking. Then yesterday, when the farrier was feeling along his neck, Ollie whipped around and bit me. Again, he's NEVER done that.

Clearly something is up and I will do my best to get an answer. I'm certainly hoping it's not a brain tumor!

 

[Miniv]

Oh my.....He's obviously in pain and very frustrated about it. You're his MOM and he figures you should KNOW.

Bonnie will close in on the problem, or at least the location and will probably tell you what type of pain, from the horse's point of view..... Just be sure to let HER do her thing first and not volunteer too much information at her until she asks.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[ljc]

Update - Two vets have seen Ollie. My regular vet checked teeth and didn't find anything. He did, however, notice that Ollie had vision issues (which I've always suspected) and recommended I have an opthamologist examine him. Awaiting blood test results to make sure Ollie's testosterone levels are right. If vision problems are behind behavioral issues, it makes a certain amount of sense in that putting on a fly mask could compromise the vision even further. Which is not to excuse the kicking and biting, of course. He also suggested that Ollie might be having a reaction to a recent ivermectin worming - he said some minis get hyper-sensitized to well, life, after ivermectin. He said Ollie was acting like a horse on uppers - jumping out of his skin. Has anyone ever heard of that.

Second vet - a chiropractic/acupuncture vet -- came out the next day. He, too, did a vision exam and said Ollie was missing the normal vision reflexes. He found major amounts of soreness in the poll area and described it as being comparable to having a migraine headache. He felt a great deal of tension and soreness in Ollie's neck, as well, and did a lot of body work on the little guy. He, too, thought ivermectin might cause a nervous system reaction.

One more vet to come - the equine dentist -- but that won't be for a few weeks.

Oh, and I did have a reading with Bonnie. She was wonderful and gave me lots to think about.

 

[Shari]

He, too, thought ivermectin might cause a nervous system reaction.

.

Am very glad you are taking your time to figure things out with him.

The ivermectin issue is new to me, so Thank you for posting that.

 

[Debby - LB]

I've had Ollie since he was 11 months old (he's now a three-year-old gelding) & got him from his breeder (La Vista Farm), so I know every bit of his history. He's always had a tiny bit of attitude, but nothing terrible. We've had a couple of "come to Jesus" talks when he's gotten pushy once or twice in the last two years but those have been very rare occasions and he's never repeated the behavior. He's always been a perfect gentleman in terms of handling - easy to catch and halter, great in cross-ties, good for farrier, quick to learn longeing, clips, loads, in short, a wonderful little guy to work with.

Since day one, he's been a little funny about his head - quick motions above him tend to startle him and I've had his vision checked (nothing found wrong). He seemed to get a little worse this year (flinching away from motion near his head) and the vet and I thought maybe while he was losing his baby teeth and new ones were coming in, he was a bit sore. Even at his "worst,"however, he never was a problem to handle.

A couple of months ago, Ollie decided he didn't want my husband to put the fly mask on him. I actually thought it was pretty funny - hubby could do all the other horses just fine (including the other mini) but Ollie said, "I think not." I laughed because I could walk right out there and put the mask on just fine. (And it wasn't as if hubby was doing it wrong or being rough. Far from it - he's very cautious and gentle around the horses.)

Last week, howeve, Ollie wouldn't let me put the fly mask on. I didn't want to make a huge deal of it so got the halter to put on him. Nope, he wouldn't let me put the halter on. This was a total aberration on his part - he's usually sticking his nose into the halter before I have it ready! He took off and ran around like a crazy mini and I said fine, you can just keep running. I hate to say it, he outlasted me. He wouldn't get tired - he just kept running. So, no doubt ruining him for all time, I got a bucket of grain, walked up to him and put the halter on.

Since then, however, I have been unable to put the fly mask on him. The only way I now can get a halter on without a huge battle is to put a halter on his pasture buddy and start to take him out - then I can put one on Ollie. What's even stranger, however, is that he won't even let me come up to him and give him scratches - I would spend many minutes every day giving mane scratches and he loved it. Now, I can barely get near him - he flinches away from any touch.

Once the halter is on, however, he's normal. Fine to groom, fine to longe, fine to go jogging (we go around the neighborhood).

I did check his ears and all around his head and neck to see if something was bleeding or if there were burrs or whatever. Couldn't find anything.

The vet is coming out in a few days for bi-annual shots and of course I'll have him give Ollie a thorough examination.

Any ideas? Suggestions? I'm tearing my hair out - in 50 years of working with horses, I've never had one do something like this - it's almost as if he's undergone a complete personality transformation.

I had a problem similar once and the horse had a tick down in the ear canal

 

[HGFarm]

You didnt mention that either vet had really examined down in his ears.

I sure hope you find the problem. I will tell you that when my neck/back is out of alignment, I DO get migraine headaches which affects my vision, and other things, terribly. Could he have had some type of trauma that caused this?

I sure hope you get to the root of the problem and are able to help him feel better.