Ration balancer to reduce belly?

[HGFarm]

Calf manna DID change their recipe and I wont use it now that it's made with soy.

 

[rubyviewminis]

Kentucky Equine Research performed a study of miniature horse weights and established 3 regression equations to provide a more accurate weight assessment. Using 49 miniature horses in the study they proved that weight tapes, body score visual determinations, and using large horse calculations were an average of 20%, 51%, and 48.6% over and under estimations of weight.

If your eyes haven't crossed yet, these three equations are not only easy, but predict actual weight within 5% of actual scale weight. I use them because when I was able to have a vet here scale weight my minis, my calculations with these formulas were within 20 pounds each time! The first one is what I use most;

BW (body weight) = (9.36 X girth (in inches)) + (5.01 X length (in inches) ) then subtract - 348.53.

BW = (11.68 X girth) + (2.85 X height) - 357.26.

BW = (13.18 X girth) - 326.07

You can get differing totals depending on where you measure girth, height, or length but mine were never off very much. I spent 1/2 day doing this with 5 minis and measuring girth and weight the different ways people would measure. My current vet uses these calculations since they now get other mini owners as clients. Guess I *pioneered* mini health here lol.

There is also another way using the formula large horses owners use with a different division number for minis.

(girth X girth X length) divided by 300 instead of 330. They also use (for large horses) 301 for a yearling and 280 for a weanling large horse.

I have to agree with HG Farm. I used Enrich 32 when I could get it or Safechoice Original and then the new Safechoice they developed for laminitis prone horses. But since my pregnant mare still couldn't tolerate the safe Safechoice I switched all of my miniatures to the LMF line of feeds developed by the lady who started Safergrass.org. Lots of good nutritional information on that site. The LMF is wonderful, they have a lot of different formulations, and I am so relieved I can get it here on a regular basis. Otherwise I would use the ADM forage based feeds, but cannot get it here.

Here are a few things I have used over the last 6 years of minis that have worked (while I was learning how to feed them), probiotics, preferably Probios tube paste (easy to get and inexpensive), Ration Plus *wonderful* stuff to help with digestion. I also found that including alfalfa into the diet of my minis until age 3 made a huge difference in big bellies and their wanting to eat so much. They weren't getting enough protein and after turning 3 they were fine off of the alfalfa. I also recently had my hay tested and you would be surprised what turns up.

Your little mare is very pretty and looks like horse pasture heaven there. Wish I had your terrain for mine. Let us know and post updated pics on how she does.

 

[muffntuf]

What came up on your recent hay test rubyviewminis?

 

[Cupcake]

Well my eyes are definitely crossed now and I'm confused - so no calf manna since they changed it?

When you measure length do you measure with a measuring tape from center of the chest to center of the tail or from the front to the back along the side?

I will get to measuring tomorrow!

I would say right now she gets about 80% grass hay and 20% alfalfa. Mineral and salt block but that's it. I have seen a difference in her look since reducing the alfalfa. Can't wait to clip her next month and get new pics!

 

[HGFarm]

I would honestly change her to at least 50% alfalfa- growing horses really need the protein. It will allow you to feed less hay, so cut her grass back when you up the alfalfa. No, I dont like soy products at all and it's really not good for digestion. Most of the soy now is also geneticly modified- something I am totally against. (It's not nice to fool Mother Nature.)

 

[rubyviewminis]

Without further reading of posts; our internet has been out again for almost two days! My orchard/alfalfa mix I bought to switch Missy to tested above 10% NSC (non structured carboydrates) which is why she had laminitis and we took her off of it and sold it. Our straight alfalfa tested under 10% NSC so it is safe to feed her while pregnant. Our grass hay had fescue so she is kept completely away from it, as soon as she tested positive bred, I took her off at 130 days or so. It in fact is NOT safe to feed until the last trimester according to the latest research, why take a chance anyway? I will need to get the paperwork and will put it all in a new post, I have so much snow to shovel and need to get more hay to the horses right now, and unbury my chicken run.

HG Farm is very correct on her last post!

Measure from point of shoulder to point of hip. That is a slight angle, but most accurate. Girth, measure from just in back of the wither, right at the bottom/back of it, at a slight angle to just behind the elbow. You could also just try that measure and then measure straight from furthermost of the front side to furthermost to the back side using a second person. Then take both measurements to use and see what you get - how much of a difference there is. But the most correct is the first measure I gave. Your description is to measure for blankets.

I stay away from calf manna now too. I had a different reason, but it also is buried in my files somewhere, I just know there was a solid reason I don't use it anymore. If you can get Progressive or ADM feeds, do it. The more expensive feeds are worth every penny because you *feed less* and they get more nutrition out of it. You actually save money, and your horse is getting the best nutrition.

 

[Marty]

I have a Calf Manna question for you guys because I am confused now too?

I used it back in the dark ages for putting on weight on a big horse. It surely did that and much so more. Made the horses go ZOOMMMMMMMMMMM, I mean, fly out from under you kinda zoommmmm..

So are you saying it will not cause extra weight or excess zoommmmmm on a miniature at all?

 

[chandab]

I have a Calf Manna question for you guys because I am confused now too?

I used it back in the dark ages for putting on weight on a big horse. It surely did that and much so more. Made the horses go ZOOMMMMMMMMMMM, I mean, fly out from under you kinda zoommmmm..

So are you saying it will not cause extra weight or excess zoommmmmm on a miniature at all?

I don't think I'd use it on a horse that didn't need weight. I've only used it minimally, so I didn't see excess weight or zoom; but just like many feeds I'm sure it could with certain horses. I've only used it to boost protein levels for those that needed it, and as a flavor enhancer for a couple really picky eaters (and they only got enough, like a tablespoon, to get that good anise flavoring going. [i tried anise flavoring itself on one and that didn't work to encourage them to eat, but Calf Manna did.]

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Not sure why people are against Soya- I have used it for years with very good results. The Soya I use at present is GM- specifically to make it resistant to a certain form of disease, and to mould- it is not going to grow legs and walk around and it is not crossed with a Tomato (one of the things I have seen suggested!) Not all scientific research is bad and not all the results of it are bad either. I find it better to do some research of my own and try to keep an open mind on these things. BTW, the reason I owuld not use this product to put on weight is not the Soya, it is that there is not enough fat content, and the actual source of the fat is not listed- I would be more worried about the possibility of animal fat in my product than I would Soya!!

 

[HGFarm]

http://www.wellnessresources.com/health/articles/soy_vs._whey_protein_quality_matters_especially_to_your_thyroid_and_muscles/

http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-164425.html

 

[HGFarm]

Here's more if you dont think there is anything wrong with GM foods and the issues it can cause..

http://www.nationofchange.org/gmo-soy-repeatedly-linked-sterility-infant-mortality-birth-defects-1358006915

GM soy is also designed to sprayed with ever increasing amounts of chemicals, which is destroying people and the soil around it. Good old Monsanto is also brought to you by Agent Orange, saccharin and DDT.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

As I stated, the GM modified Soya i use was specifically modified to be more resistant to disease and bug attacks- thus needing less chemicals....

 

[Carolyn R]

I don't know if anyone answered your calf manna question, but it should be a total of about 1/2 a cup per day. I would break it down and top dress it on her am and pm feedings. I use it on my 10 month gypsy vanner, he was "lacking" , just needed a boost. It did the trick.

 

[Rhondaalaska]

She weighed in at 90 lbs when I got her, 27". Now she's about 31/32" and I haven't had a chance to weigh her again, I didnt think she weighed that much either now but I asked everyone who has come by my house what their estimate is from vet to farrier (a mini owner herself) and other horse people and they all said 250-300. I dose her wormer/meds at 250.

I think I will go ahead with the calf manna and see how she does.

I don't know if your weight is right or not

you may want to redo it just to be sure.

My little girl is 36" and weighs 300#

I had the vet check and I did the measurement formula and both were the same.

 

[Cupcake]

Did all the measuring and she weighs between 247-253lbs according to the charts/different measuring methods.

So I've come to the conclusion to probably just keep doing what I do, grass hay, alfalfa, salt and mineral stone and some apples or carrots every now and then.

All this talk about good, bad, soy or not has confused me and I won't experiment around. She seems to be happy and healthy, I know for a fact that too much alfalfa turns her into a huge belly carrying hyperactive monster, it may work for others but she would eat herself to death. I was looking for something to further reduce her belly, not something to put weight on her.

She looked bad (starved) when I got her then 6 months later she was eating TOO well and looked pregnant. Right now I think we have found a happy medium

 

[Rhondaalaska]

My girl is one of the bigger belly girls. Your girl could be as well, It could be just the way she is.

I know mine would never look like some I see here.

The vet liked how she looked so I am happy.

What does your vet say.

Look for pockets of fat on her neck and back and shoulder.

That is where my vet said to watch.

Your girl might loose some belly as she exercises this spring and summer.

Are you going to cart or do jumping

Those might help her develop her muscles.

I think some horses are like some of us ,

no mater what we do we have more belly than we would like.

Ps she may look fatter than she is with all her fur.

I know when mine is wet she looks a lot thinner than when she is fluffy.

 

[mizbeth]

I have had many many horses over the past 17-18 years, minis' Mine simply do not have big bellies - I feed a GOOD quality grain, GOOD quality grass hay, GOOD quality alfalfa hay. I keep them wormed. If I have (and have some on occassion) a pot bellied weanling - I up their protein. But the main thing I think is to make sure (if you are doing all the above) is to make sure your horse is worm free. I worm mine with Equimax two times a year and 1.5 times the dose of Ivermectin the rest of the time. I do beleive these horses get tape worms, and everything I have read about horses is that 60-70% of them have tape worms and you do not know it.

I just saw her photo - I would up her grain to some good grain and worm her with Equimax. See if she does not look better. In the photo she is thin across her back - rear.

 

[mizbeth]

She weighed in at 90 lbs when I got her, 27". Now she's about 31/32" and I haven't had a chance to weigh her again, I didnt think she weighed that much either now but I asked everyone who has come by my house what their estimate is from vet to farrier (a mini owner herself) and other horse people and they all said 250-300. I dose her wormer/meds at 250.

I think I will go ahead with the calf manna and see how she does.
I don't know if your weight is right or not

you may want to redo it just to be sure.

My little girl is 36" and weighs 300#

I had the vet check and I did the measurement formula and both were the same.

I do not think your filly weighs anywhere near 250-300 by looking at the last photo of her. It is okay to use 250 dose of Ivermecton tho., A 300 lb horse is pretty good size mini and yes most likely a 36" one would be 300 lbs.