Repeat Matings

[Taya]

Just a question for breeders, perhaps more so for the ones that use outside stallions or have more than one of their own.

If you bred a foal that you were very very happy with do you usually repeat the mating in the hopes of getting a similar or better foal (I know the variables with genetics are huge and full siblings can be very different in alot of cases) or do you put the mare to a different stallion (one that compliments her still, of course) to try for a different cross.

Was just wondering the other day as I was on a website where they kept using the same outside stallion over a number of years and produced very similar (and stunning) foals from the same mating. Where as I have seen some other studs that have produced a lovely foal but not repeated the mating and wondered peoples reasons behind it

Is it because they are so happy with the cross they try again in hopes for a repeat (or very close) to the first foal?

Or because they dont want a similar foal and like the variety of a different cross?

What do you do and what a your reasons for it? Also in you experience if you have repeated a mating were the foals similar or not?

Any pics of full siblings (whether they are similar or very different) would be fantastic too

 

[wildoak]

I have a few I have repeated. I am not a "big" breeder and just select a few mares to breed every year, so I don't have dozens of repeat breedings. If I choose to repeat, it is because I really liked the results, pure and simple.

Full siblings by FHF Painted Echo x Shadow Oaks Paul Bunyon mare......

And another mare I don't have photos of on the computer, who looks almost identical to the second colt.

Duffys Affirmed Royalty x Deiles Peacemaker.........

These two mares are 4" apart in height, one is completely solid and the other pinto.

Jan

 

[FoRebel]

We have our stud, Cazzo and our oldest broodmare, Mae that we repeat breed every year since they've thrown correct foals with the confirmation and personality that we're looking for. They really do compliment each other and until Mae decides she's done we'll keep breeding her every year... Just because she's bred every year doesn't mean she's taking or foaling every year though.

 

[MindyLee]

I did a repeat breeding with my boy Bob who is Komokos/GMB/Johnstons bred with my little Komokos mare Misty twice. They where both really cute foals, but not what I wanted to breed for, so this year I switched things up. I bred my boy Bob to my Buckeroo g-daughter Lady Bug and my little Misty to my King Supreme son Sentra, which I hope that between these crosses I should get some really nice foals.

CANT WAIT!!!

 

[MBhorses]

nice horses wildoak.

My friend repeat a mare and stud

first year the mare and stud had a solid smokey black filly who was tall

this year the same mare and stud had a solid palomino colt who will stay small.

so goes to show same breeding can turn out so different in good and bad ways

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

We did a few repeat breedings...

Our buckskin mare to our palomino stallion twice: both foals perlino, one colt, one filly. Side by side you can't tell them apart with out looking at the "plumbing"...

Same temperament.

Our black mare to our LWO dun stallion: two grulla pinto fillies. One wildly marked, one with high whites and small side spot. Different temperaments, one likes people, one isn't sure.

Chestnut pinto mare to dun LWO stallion: one bay pinto colt, one dun pinto filly. Colt is show quality, in fact in his yearling year I showed him and he took home many junior championships! Filly, pet quality... short and dumpy. Sold as a pet.

Palomino mare to buckskin stallion: buckskin colt, cremello filly. Both tiny. Sold the colt as a weanling, never heard from the people much afterward, although they state he was at a trainer's who thought he was great. Never saw him at shows (they are local) Filly is only a weaner, but she's going to be shown next year by us until she's sold. She is a TINY little girl!

No repeats this year as we used two "new" stallions, Elvis and Lotto. This is Elvis's first season and we can't wait, and Lotto's first season with us.

Lucy

 

[Jetiki]

I have a mare and stallion that have crossed well together. We have crossed them twice and the first foal of this cross is now a driving horse in FL and is doing wonderfully. The second one is just ground driving right now and will be hitched in the spring, the 2nd foal was in my opinion a little more refined than the first. This cross will be repeated in 2010 for a 2011 foal can't wait to see how this one will turn out. The stallion a nice grulla crossed with a chestnut sabino pinto resulted in a silver grulla minimal pinto and a red dun minimal pinto. mare has had 3 foals all minimal pintos but each one gets a touch more white.

Karen

 

[Kylie]

I've done a couple of repeat matings.. here is 1 in particular.

2008 colt.

 

[Kylie]

Full sister, 2009 filly.

 

[Kylie]

So that's full brother & sister.

Very similar really in type, the filly is a tad more leggy & refined & taller. Head/muzzle shape is exactly the same - take the filly's pinto colouring away & they are soo alike.

Only difference is the filly is VERY shy & not confident.

Sire of those 2 above foals:

Dam of the foals:

And the Chestnut filly is out of the Dam above, the sire i have no idea whom. Doesn't she look similar to the Chestnut 2008 colt?

 

[Taya]

Really appreciate you all taking the time to answer and for the pics.

Interesting to see how some are so much alike then some so different! (4 inches apart too!!)

Also how different personalities can be too. Guess its alot like human kids too

Would love to hear more peoples experiences with repeat matings too

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

I've done a few repeat breedings, typically because I only have one stallion at a time, and only a small number of mares, so one boy gets all the girls!

Here are a few:

Crayonbox Idle Superstition (now deceased), she was tiny, a good few inches smaller than her full sister

Full sister to above a year later, Crayonbox Color Me Autumn

Appaloosa's are always fun, here is another set of full siblings:

Crayonbox Midnight Colors (not a good picture, she was tough to get photos as a foal)

Full brother, Crayonbox Cash In Your Chips, he did mature taller than she did (actually went over, 39" now!)

Last set, pintaloosas, again the difference in pattern and size was huge with these two.

Crayonbox Wild West Surprise

Full sibling Crayonbox Made You Look (she was much, much bigger!)

 

[HGFarm]

I have one roan Appy mare that both times she was bred to my silver Appy stallion, she had silver dapple snowcap colts that look very similar. She was bred to a chestnut Appy stallion and the foals from that cross were all very similar. When bred to my leopard Appy, the full siblings from that cross looked nothing alike!!

My dark grulla mare, when bred to my leopard 3 years in a row, had bay foals every year that I would hardly be able to tell apart!! They look like identical triplets!!

My near leopard mare was bred to my leopard three times now and every foal has been completely different. You probably would never know they were related, let alone full siblings, LOL

 

[Filipowicz Farm]

When we did outside breedings repaeated them because the foals turned out beautiful. When our stallions became of age to bred I have repeated a breeding because of the results and was not dispointed in the cross and will repeat it this spring. One of our other stallions this was his first breeding this year and will repeat that cross because his foals were so nice. I have a few new breedings that we are trying for with the foals we are expecting in 2010. Looking forward to the crosses. If a breeding turns out nice we repeat that cross.

 

[Getitia]

What do you do and what a your reasons for it? Also in you experience if you have repeated a mating were the foals similar or not?

When we are pleased with a particular cross, we will very often repeat the breeding the following year. Sometimes, we will switch from a proven cross to test breed a proven mare to a jr stallion - This really helps us to evaluate the young stallion's future production potential. Which is the case for many of our upcoming 2010 foal crop - we used the jr Lee son - Todd to cross back on many of the mares we have used in the past to breed to Lee- this will help us to compare and contrast the Lee foals - vs the Lee son's foals. The expectation is that jr Lee stallion will produce better than his sire. Time will tell.

Many times the results of repeat crosses of full siblings are very similar - othertimes, you would never guess they were full siblings. In some cases we have made a repeat cross for 5 consecutive years. We have many, many crosses that are 3 and 4 repeats.

Here are a few. Buckeye WCF Kewpie Rose and Lee

Phoenix

Margareta

Firebird

Van Lo Tiny Tina and Lee

Obsession

Sizzle

TKO

Buckeye WCF Cat A Lena and Lee

(both are homozygous)

Grace

Kelly

 

[Versatility Farm & Training]

I do some of both. I have 2 Sr stallions, and a few Jr. stallions to choose from, plus access to stallions that my parents own, or sometimes client horses.

I have one mare that I bred back to Ricky, my smaller Sr. Stallion several years. She always had show quality foals by him so I continued to cross them. Then I bought my other Stallion who I thought might cross better with her, and I was right! She has had 2 outstanding colts by Steele, and is in foal (with a filly ) to him for 2010. As of now I have no intentions of changing who she is bred to. My oldest mare (about to tun 24) was bred for 8 foals to the same stallion, 7/8 top show quality. I bought her from my parents after the 5th foal and continued the cross, in which I probably got the best 2 foals of the cross. My parents then sold that stallion, so I had to choose a new one. I tried a new Jr. stud, wasn't thrilled with the cross (but after selling him he turned into a great stallion and I have one of his daughters in training now) then I got the oppertunity to breed to a Top Stallion and jumped on it. Since she was my best mare I used her and got an outstanding foal from her who I've been showing fro several years. I know have the oppertunity to breed back to him, and although I've gotten nice foals from her and repeated crosses with other stallions including my own, I am taking the chance with her and breeding back to that outside stallion. I also bought a son of his, and when he is old enough to breed I plan on breeding him with her. She's been bred to 6 different stallions over her breeding career, with several repeats. If I find a cross I like, I stick with it at least for a while, but sometimes if its an outside stallion you can't afford to keep doing it. And sometimes you find another potential cross that you just have to try, maybe it works better, maybe you go back to what she was bred to before. I have another mare who I have bred to a different stallion every year. All of her foals are show quality, but have just one thing about them I don't like, or was an outside stallion that I can't afford to breed back to right now. I think her 2010 foal will finally be what I am looking for with her, and if it lives up to my expectations will be repeated again.

I have not figured out how to successfully post pictures on here, but if you would like to see pictures of some of my full siblings I can e-mail them to anyone interested, or you can look on my website, on the sales list. Versatility Farms Destined For Success, and Versatility Farms Destined for Fame, are full brothers from the first mare I was talking about. The only other full siblings I have on there are Iona Farms Desert Moon and Iona Farms Goodnight Moon are full sisters. But other examples can be e-mailed.

 

[Joanne]

We have four to five stallion here that we use each year.

Some crosses have been exceptional and we have repeated them the next time. Some have had exceptional foals, but that stallion may have a full line up of mares and we might try the mare on another stallion. That has sometimes lead to another exceptional foal.

Here is one example of changing stallions on one mare that yielded an exceptional foal no matter the stallion.

Proving that a great mare is worth her weight in gold.

Pacific Batik at his home in Australia.

Pacific Jazzabelle - now in England.

Same mare, different stallions. Worth trying something new!

 

[Taya]

Great reading everyones replies...thankyou

Seems the majority of you will repeat the mating (if available) if you are happy with the first foal. Unless trying a new jr stallion etc

Great pictures aswell, stunning horses.....I would be repeating the matings too lol

 

[Dona]

I do believe that sometimes you just find the right "niche" with breeding pairs.

I bred the two horses I started out with ("Hemlock Brooks Cock Robin" and "Johnson's Little Missy) year after year, for many years. She had 17 foals during her lifetime (lost only the last one, along with her

). And, all... except three of those foals... were by Cock Robin! That combination just seemed to work.....every one of their foals were exceptional, refined w/beautiful heads, big eyes, hooky necks & extreme, tail-flagging movement. I couldn't have asked more of them.

This is a photo of Cock Robin who is coming 32 years old & STILL going strong living out his retirement at Angie's (Hoofbeat Buckon Acres)



And here is a collage of Missy & all the foals she had in her lifetime. (Cock Robin sired all but 3 in this college)

 

[carlenehorse]

Here are my repeat breeding. They have had 3 silver pintos and 2 silver blacks.

Solids