Roaning Question

[bluerogue]

My stallion is a funky colored solid black (I mean to get him tested for cream, as his pedigree is heavy in buckskin- he's usually black, but has also been almost bay or seal brown), with no white markings. His dam is a funky colored black tobiano pinto. His sire is a true blue roan. I have pictures of both of them.

My question is that my stallion has begun what appears to be roaning on his hips, croup, and down into his flank. It is spreading with time, although very slowly. I know he is not a true roan, but his dam does not appear to carry sabino (she looks pure tobiano to me). Sire has no white markings.

He does not have the other characteristics for rabicano roan (I have several rabicano roans, and am familiar with the pattern).

Could my stallion carry sabino? It's my understanding that sabino is visibly present from birth. While King appeared to be a true blue roan as a baby, he went solid black after I clipped him the first time. This roaning appeared when King was 3 years old, he's now 6. It has very slowly begun approaching his belly, and going down his back legs. It is not visible when in winter coat.

He's had three foals to date, one solid chestnut rabicano roan (dam is rabicano), one solid buckskin (dam is silver buckskin), and one chestnut sabino possible pintaloosa (dam is chestnut sabino pintaloosa).

This has me completely bewildered. I've considered everything I know of, and I can't find anything that fits. His roaning is not like any other roaning I've seen... the white hairs are few and far between. But they are definitely there, and appear over a large area of his body now. It's just weird, and I'd like to know what it is.

I can't post pictures, but I would be more than happy to email them to any who wish to take a crack at figuring out what he's doing. It's got me completely baffled!

 

[Dona]

My stallion is a funky colored solid black (I mean to get him tested for cream, as his pedigree is heavy in buckskin- he's usually black, but has also been almost bay or seal brown), with no white markings. His dam is a funky colored black tobiano pinto. His sire is a true blue roan. I have pictures of both of them.
My question is that my stallion has begun what appears to be roaning on his hips, croup, and down into his flank. It is spreading with time, although very slowly. I know he is not a true roan, but his dam does not appear to carry sabino (she looks pure tobiano to me). Sire has no white markings.

He does not have the other characteristics for rabicano roan (I have several rabicano roans, and am familiar with the pattern).

Could my stallion carry sabino? It's my understanding that sabino is visibly present from birth. While King appeared to be a true blue roan as a baby, he went solid black after I clipped him the first time. This roaning appeared when King was 3 years old, he's now 6. It has very slowly begun approaching his belly, and going down his back legs. It is not visible when in winter coat.

He's had three foals to date, one solid chestnut rabicano roan (dam is rabicano), one solid buckskin (dam is silver buckskin), and one chestnut sabino possible pintaloosa (dam is chestnut sabino pintaloosa).

This has me completely bewildered. I've considered everything I know of, and I can't find anything that fits. His roaning is not like any other roaning I've seen... the white hairs are few and far between. But they are definitely there, and appear over a large area of his body now. It's just weird, and I'd like to know what it is.

I can't post pictures, but I would be more than happy to email them to any who wish to take a crack at figuring out what he's doing. It's got me completely baffled!

More than likely, it IS the Sabino gene at work. Even tho his dam "appears" to be only Tobiano, she could very well be carrying Sabino as well. From your description, it sounds like he is displaying classic Sabino roaning. And NO....Sabinos aren't always born showing sabino roaning. It often times, doesn't show up until later, and then it progresses as they age.

I have a Sabino mare that appeared to be simply Chestnut with some white facial markings & two white socks. But at age 4, she was showing Sabino roaning on her belly & flanks, and she has acquired more & more of the roaning every year.

 

[bluerogue]

Sabinos don't have to have any white markings? I was focusing research in other directions because I thought it couldn't be sabino, as he has no white markings at all (other than the roaning).

Looking at your Mystic's flank and hips, I think you may be right, as that is exactly the type of roaning King is exhibiting. Not down near her belly, but up near her croup.

Edited to add thoughts on Mystic.

 

[Joanne]

In my experience (I have quite a number of sabinos) those that have white hairs (roan-like) all over do not test positive for the sabino (sb1) gene.

We know there are multiple sabino genes, but there is only one test so far.

 

[icspots]

OK, another question, I have a little sorrel stallion, that I assumed at birth was solid sorrel with a couple of socks. Sire Black, four socks carries tobiano. Dam Sorrel tobiano.

When I clipped him off at weaning, he has sabino like speckles up both flanks and heavy roaning all over his back. He hasn't been tested, but his parents have and do not test for sabino. NO facial white on him.

 

[Bess Kelly]

Do the Tobis have roaning within their color spots? Sometimes it's simply at the edges, or there are more jagged edges, rather than the smooth "rounded" edges to the pattern of simply Tobi.

 

[icspots]

The sire has some roaning on his body, but not nearly as extensive as the baby does already. The mare is normal Toby, some, but not excessive.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Sabinos do not have to have body white, they usually do, but they do not have to.

Sabino is polygenous, thus the test for Sab1 really only means your horse has (or does not have) Sab1, it means, in fact virtually nothing as any horse can have any number of Sabino genes, depending on how many they eventually find!!

It is probable that the "roaning" only is minimal Sabino, possibly only caused by one of the many Sabino genes.

Clydesdales, that are H/Z for Sabino and almost always have heavy body "roaning" test negative for Sab1!!

 

[bluerogue]

I was aware that sabino is polygenous, but I was not aware it can manifest as a roaning pattern. That would be awesome if King does carry a form of sabino. The sabinos are my favorite color patterns, so having it in my herd makes me happy! I guess I'll just have to wait to see if he throws a full blown patterned baby out of one of my solid mares.

 

[Songcatcher]

I was aware that sabino is polygenous, but I was not aware it can manifest as a roaning pattern. That would be awesome if King does carry a form of sabino. The sabinos are my favorite color patterns, so having it in my herd makes me happy! I guess I'll just have to wait to see if he throws a full blown patterned baby out of one of my solid mares.

To get that "full blown Patterned baby", most likely the "solid" mare will need to be a minimally marked or minimally roaned Sabino also. When they inherit the pattern from both sides, the results can be wild.

 

[bluerogue]

Well, the only two roaned mares (that could possibly be carrying a pinto pattern without another explanation) I have are rabicano roans. But they are Rowdy bred (mare is Rowdy graddaughter, and her 4 year old filly, who is double Rowdy). But they do have roaning body wide. The filly much more than her dam.

We do have an appaloosa mare that is varnish roan. And our silver buckskin mare had a blue eye and a star (she lost the blue eye as a baby in an accident).

Ok, forget the wild pattern sabinos. I'd be happy with some face white! Maybe even some socks!