Rolling and bucking in harness, HELP!!!!

[Sandee]

You also might try doing something else. I mean doing something entirely different from driving. How about working with her on obstacle. Just use a halter if she will obey. If not then use one with a chain until she learns it's easier to do as you ask than to fight. Work on turning, walking over stuff, around things. It will give her something else to think about and when she does something right give her lots of praise and maybe even treats ( your option). If she learns that all sorts of things can be done with you, then she'll start to trust and that's what you need for the driving with blinders.

Oh, I don't mean to give up the driving training but this could be something to just give you both a break - like once or twice a week.

 

[Littlegoesalongway]

It's tough to comment without seeing exactly how your interaction with Diva is. However, your gut comment about "she doesn't respect me" is likely bang on. She sounds like a self confident, busy-minded dominant little girl who loves to "play horse games" with you...on her terms.

If this is the case, it's going to take some focused, firm handling to establish your leadership with her. The other challenge is going to be keeping her mind on what it is you're asking her to do, rather than giving her time to thing of ways to get out of it! You might consider going back to groundwork (in a halter & lead rope) without the harness work to make sure you have a solid foundation of respect and a bit of obedience first...it's very easy for horses to do their own thing when they are way out infront of you in long lines!

I'd be interested to hear how she works at liberty in the round-pen. Sometimes horses like this will eventually 'join-up' in the pen just because they're tired of running, but their brain isn't truly engaged & connected to you (which will show up as soon as they're not tired!).

Another way you can keep her mind on the task at hand instead of thinking evil thoughts is to work with lots of different obstacles (might be cavalletti, barrels, pylons, tarps, a sheet of plywood on the ground, a bridge, etc)....anything that you can either go around, under, through or especially over....if she has to watch where she's putting her feet she won't have time to think nasty thoughts. And it'll give you a specific task to focus on, rather than letting her dictate how or where she thinks she'd like to go.

There's a horseman here in Canada who has lots of great training resources on his website & youtube. He's helped me with some difficult horses and he's an amazing teacher. Although he uses mostly riding horses in his videos I know he's also done some clinics with a local miniature rescue society to help them with some troubled horses. He even adopted one so he's not unfamiliar with working with these little handfuls!

Not sure if I'm allowed to post his name/link here so PM me if you'd like them.

 

[TMR]

What she has is a lack of respect, you have allowed her to get away with it and you need to start back at the beginning. Anytime she is in halter, it is work time. When you are "playing" with her, she is learning. Start back to working her in just a halter and lead and work on the respect. Make her back, side step, turn on her haunches, turn on her forehand, whatever you want her to do. Do not let it be her idea. If she doesn't know how to do these movements, teach her. Lunging should not be play time, it is a time to work. It allows them to learn how to balance themselves without outside influence (i.e. cart or rider) work on transitions (walk/trot-trot/canter-etc.) You must always be the one in control, always your idea not hers. If she starts to trot when you are walking immediately bring her back to a walk...I'm talking immediately, she will learn that you are alpha mare and alpha mare always gets respect. Once she is respecting you in halter and you can control her lunging, then put her back in harness and longlining. Do not be afraid to discipline, have you even seen the alpha mares correct the rest of the herd, it is quick and harsh. Rolling and bucking consistently in harness is dangerous and completely unacceptable. It is deserving of a quick hard pop with the whip (please do not yank on the reins unless absolutely necessary remember it is a piece of steel in their mouth) and "knock it off" and then push them on. If she is going forward she cannot roll or buck as easily. Keep her mind occupied, constant changes in directions, transitions, lateral movements, anytime her ears come off you change something.

 

[Diva's Girl]

Ok. I will do that. When I was first taught how to lunge a horse by a trainer I was told to let them relax and buck as long as they where not in working tack and they listened to the transitions. She is a very headstrong little mare and I feel she needs that more strict and throurough leadership from me. I will try the different things you all have sujested. Anytime that I am with her I treat it as if we were training(which we basically are.). I have only had her for less than 3 1/2 months and we have gone from me barely being able to walk her across the driveway (just leading her with a halter and lead rope) without her either trying to run away or throw a fit to me being able to be pretty much underneath her and be perfectly safe. She can be fully loose and come to me when I whistle for her, she will follow me without having anything on her other than her halter while being loose, doesn't fuss too much when I pick her hooves(used to purposely fall on you if you picked up her feet....), she does not spook as easily anymore, she will take a bit and bridal without so much as blinking an eyelash(she would throw a monster fit before if you tried to put one on her), and she will now stand tied outside her stall while i clean it with no fuss or food to occupy her. All of which we have overcome in the time that I have had her. I am very happy that we have made it this far and hope that we will continue to make progress. Once the snow is gone I want to start bomb proofing her(getting her used to different situations that might scare her). I started a little last fall but didn't want to overwhelm her. Next year is going to be much different. I can't do much because of the snow and ice but I will definatly work on the basics and teach her better manners. She needs them badly.

 

[targetsmom]

If you have only had her for about 3 months, I think the key advice is to BE PATIENT - and consistent of course. I have noticed in training ours to drive that the ones that are the easiest are the ones we started working with as babies/weanlings. I think it is because we are consistent in what we do, and do a lot of obstacles, showmanship type training - well, basic ground manners.

We also have a diva named Princess, who was not easy to train to drive at all, despite starting her as a weanling. She is so smart that she figured out an avoidance (sound familiar?) right when we thought we were ready to hook her to the cart. We went back and ground drove her another 3 months, meantime getting another one from start to cart in that time. Our breakthrough came when instead of having someone HOLD the cart shafts in the tugs (which is what she found she could get away from) we boldly strapped her into a travois. When she realized she couldn't get away, there was a split second when we thought it was all over, and then the look on her face was "oh, s* * t, I can't get away" and from then on, she was fine. A very nice driving mini, as a matter of fact.

 

[Diva's Girl]

That sounds like my Diva, hahaha. She is very smart...too smart for her own good. She is pushing me harder than any other horse I have ever worked with(she is the first mini I have done anything with other that muck them out and lead them around. Usually I work with quarter horses and a thoroughbred at the riding stable). I don't expect this to go away over night and I know it will take time for her to figure things out. She is a very sweet horse when she isn't acting up. She will call out to me when she sees me and come running over, it's so cute. She is a beutiful mover and has the prettiest trot of any horse I have ever seen, very smooth and elegant. When she puts her mind into it she picks things up really fast.

I wanted to try to stop this before it becomes a habit with her. She has only been doing it the last couple of times I've taken her out and I didn't know how to handle it.

Again, thank you so much for everyone's help! Having someone else who is more expirienced's opinions and ideas really helps. If I work her today then I will take some pics so you guys can see.

 

[Rhondaalaska]

What a change in diva today.

we went and got a crop and a rope training halter. Wow what a difference in her attitude. My daugter was able to lunge her and get her to respond to voice commands which she was not doing in the fall. Diva's Girl said that our little Diva acted up and was corrected with the crop and looked at her as to say "what happened? You actually punished me. " she now shows my daugter a little more respect again. I think the key for diva is work. She loves to work. And is very smart... Too smart at times.

We will take it slow and go back over the basics, but today diva did not try to rush past my daugter when lead or do anything that was too bad after being corrected. I think this is going to be the key. Diva's girl now has a crop that diva can feel if she rears or try's to misbehave like she has been. And work. I have also cut out almost all her alfalfa as well. She only get one cube now instead of four.

I am pleased with how my daugter is working her. She is an amazing kid. I just hope diva decides to be her sweet girl that she is and not her bratty self any more.

 

[shalakominiatureshowhorses]

Glad to know she is behaving better. Work makes a HUGE difference!!

wildoak said to take her to the edge of the pasture and work her there. Hope that worked out for you :/ Last time i did that, the horse turned against the fence, pulled against his own halter and drug me around untill i let go (i dont let go all the time LOL) I have HUGe scars on my for-arms from when Devil and Bentley did that to me a LONG time ago. I dont lunge anymore because we have a round pen now, and I just hate lunging!!!

 

[Rhondaalaska]

Well I can definitely see a difference when Diva is worked. Before work what a brat.... After work she behaves and is sweet.

We didn't work her yesterday so to day she was a brat. She bucked around her pen as I was trying to clean it. Then got all sassy when I started walking her on lead. I had to correct her a few times. After a short time she did better. I can't wait for April and warm weather again. Than she can go for long walks again . It was below zero today so I didn't work her for long. Just walking and ho on command .