So, who decided it'd be neat to show Mini halter horses like dogs?

[Kendra]

By individually judging each horse, you'd add a huge amount of time to your show. Yeah, it'd be great not to have to show the whole time, but really, even standing in line waiting, what if the judge looked over? Wouldn't you want your horse looking his best?

As far as handler gymnastics, if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to show your horse like that. I know of some excellent handlers who are very quiet in front of thier horse, but get just as much "sparkle".

Quarter Horses show one way, Arabs another. This is the way Miniature Horses are shown, how it's evolved, regardless of where it came from. I guess I'm the only one, but I don't have a problem with it.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Coming straight from Arabs and Part Breds I have never handset a horse.

I had three commands for my dogs "Watch" "Feet" and "tail" ( before docking became illegal it was a good idea to have the tail low - if they don't have it pushed in their faces it does not have to bother them

)

I never handset a dog either, except in training.

I did not/do not "bait" dogs or horses- easiest way to get bitten in both cases!!

I DO use food in training but I also train my animals that a closed hand means wait and an open hand means OK.

In Europe we do not, ever, stand between the Judge and our animal- what would be the point???

So you enter ring clockwise on the rail and walk round.

Stewart will stop all the horses down one side of the ring and each horse in turn will trot the entire circumference of the ring for the Judge to get a goo sideways on look at the horses movement.

More often now Judges will call the horses in in no order, initially, as classes can be large.

Horses then line up down the centre of the ring- this is a bit I think we could change- I think the horses should line up nose to tail, and form two lines if necessary.

Horses then approach the Judge (we normally would only have one) one at a time, stand to be examined and then walk away in a straight line and trot back, past the Judge round the back (I think it should be the front) of the other horses and back to their place in the line up.

At the end the Judge will walk down the line for a second look (why I think horses should be nose to tail).

Judge may ask for a couple or more horse to be pulled out of line and even trotted up again (I have gone from fourth to first on this!)

Judge may then either pull the horse out of line in order, or asked them to walk round again and pull them in one by one.

Horses line up in order of merit (each horse should out of courtesy, be placed but often Judges will only place to the number of rosettes.)

Winners then do a lap of honour unless they are old and decrepit like me when they excuse themselves and fall out of the ring!!

The first time I saw Minis being shown in America I fell off my chair I laughed so much, genuine laughter, too, not put on, I just could not believe it.

Mind you the "chicken dance" is still one of the funniest things I have seen, even now!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

".

Quarter Horses show one way, Arabs another. This is the way Miniature Horses are shown, how it's evolved, regardless of where it came from. I guess I'm the only one, but I don't have a problem with it.

I am with you Kendra. I personally have shown at shows where we had to show more stock style and I hated it.. now I am not the best halter handler but I prefer our way over stock horse way which is why I dont own stock horses lol

.. and have to say Rabbit I thought it a bit odd when I saw pics of them showing miniature horses over there on your side of the pond but we have totally different styles of not only showing but horses as well.

 

[Erica]

Another aspect of miniatures being THE horse for everyone....it is not dicated how you show; or it isn't yet. You can do it however you want.

I have been in a class with people who literally set a horse up and stand at it's head holding the lead, never moving or making attempts to get the horse on, I have been in the ring with people that basically sit on the ground to show, some that show at the end of the lead, some that stand right on top of their horse, some that literally do look like it takes a ton of effort to show that horse, some that do dance around in front of their horse and then some that let the horse show itself. Is any right? Is any wrong? One judge may count off for "over showing", while other may count off for not getting the show out of your horse.

Is it all just personal perference, I think so? for me personally all I'm trying to do is show the horse to it's best advantage.

I prefer to stand away from my horses and allow them to present themselves with just some help or cues from me, that being said it doesn't "always" work that way, just this year I had a little yearling filly who you could show all day at home, but you walked her in an indoor arena and she unwound and had anxiety so bad no matter how well she stood at home or back at the stalls, I ended up showing her on my knees as I think it was more comforting to her. Yes maybe she should have stayed at home until she was "trained" but the only way to get her over her fears was to allow her to get comfortable in these situations, several shows later, she pulled 3rd out of 67 at Nationals, and I was able to show her like my other horses by then.

While I think it would be neat to show like the arabs where each horse gets it's time to shine for a few minutes and either you impress the judges or you don't, I'm not sure it will ever happen as instead of the National show being 10 days, might as well make it two weeks.

Believe me I'd love to be able to show minis like Arabs, I've tried to study and learn off of them and seveal techniques can be applied to minis........but as Carol said it's just not the same. They are different creatures, seemily different personality I think as well. You can have a hot and fiery miniature, but it's still not an arab. Even just the movements are awkward with the minis, with the arabs the trainers are looking up at the horses so are able to sort of push the head up (not good words I know) but train them to and extend the neck but the horses are still looking or flexing a little down as well to their handler to get that extreme neck......with minis who are shorter than their handler, we want a neck up and out and down.....yet the horses are shorter than the handler so it becomes a challenge to get this from just standing showing the horse. I know none of that made sense, but I picture it all well in my head and have struggled with learning or attempting to get them to show "like" the arabs and sometimes it's a challenege.

 

[JWC sr.]

The thought that came to my mind as I was reading these posts was, when someone is in the ring the whole object is to present the horse to the judges in as an attractive manner as possible.

If folks do not feel comfortable using bait, showing the entire class or attempting to get the ears etc. etc.. Then don't do it. If you honestly feel that your horse displays itself better in any particular position then by all means put it there. OH!

As for myself, Cindy and Jose in the ring sometimes we bait, sometimes we don't as each horse dictates. Sometimes we place the feet and sometimes we don't again depending on the horse's individual needs. I have one colt that has really nice legs, but if you attempt to touch his legs he goes nuts in the ring. At home he is fine, but just gets nervous at the shows. Needless to say we do not set his feet.

We have showed cattle, horses, donkeys and dogs in the past and each one had their own particular things that they required in the ring. The one common thread though was the desire to present the animal to the judges as best as is possible. A phrase someone used many years ago in the dog ring when my Mother was a professional handler that I took to heart was " If you can't profile then you can't win"

Our whole goal is to present a profile that is attractve and will entice the judge to give our horse more consideration than the horse next to us.

I like many of you laugh when I see extreme girations in the ring, I personally do not think it is required. But if the judges start placing that person up over my horses because he gets their attention more, you can beat I will learn the Limbo to compete even with my fat self.

Bottom line for us anyway is I dearly love to see a handler that is unobtrusive and has his/her horse looking like a million dollars. Our goal is to make the center of attraction the horse and not us. Whatever that takes and additionally any time the judge looks our way we want the horse to be in that best position no matter the size of the class. I can't tell you how many times in a huge class that you see the judge looking from across the ring to compare a horse on one side of the ring to another on the other side and folks never even realize it.

I would though love to see a little more juding on movement in minatures showing halter as I think that is an area that needs improvement with a lot of horses in our breed.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I would personally love to see "less" rather than "more" of the handler while in the ring. But I don't think we had to mandate this, just leave it up to each individual. Do what shows your horse to its best advantage without becoming a distraction to your neighbors!

I am however, getting to the point where I am going to say something right then and there the next time the handler next to me, behind me, whatever, is going through so many different girations, sounds, stomping feet, etc that it bothers me or my horse! I've HAD it with those irritating people who seem to have no concept for personal space!

Personally, I'm a big girl and I show TINY horses so I have to be very cautious not to overshadow my horse. I have to remember to bend at the knees and not end up with my billboard-sized butt in the air while I'm trying to get my horse's attention! OH! I've seen video of me showing and it ain't pretty!!!

 

[Erica]

I would personally love to see "less" rather than "more" of the handler while in the ring. But I don't think we had to mandate this, just leave it up to each individual. Do what shows your horse to its best advantage without becoming a distraction to your neighbors!

hehe Parmela.....

There are times I sit and ponder where to be in line up for that VERY reason. I know some people that religously use tic-tacs, or stomp their feet (that one drives me loopey) or one I hate just as bad as noise is when the person behind you in line up horse keeps inching forward and they just stop and reset them instead of backing them up and pretty soon that exhibitor is in your horses butt :arg!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I hate just as bad as noise is when the person behind you in line up horse keeps inching forward and they just stop and reset them instead of backing them up and pretty soon that exhibitor is in your horses butt :arg!

LOL that one happened to raven and foxy in a youth class at Nationals... the little girl behind her for a while was butt to butt with foxy and then by the time the class was over she was next to him and the handler was up by foxys shoulder her horse nose to butt with foxy

Someone tried it again with her in a youth mare class only that one well the mare wasnt as easy going as Foxy and ended up in a bit of a scuffle with the mares

 

[user 488]

I would personally love to see "less" rather than "more" of the handler while in the ring. But I don't think we had to mandate this, just leave it up to each individual. Do what shows your horse to its best advantage without becoming a distraction to your neighbors!

hehe Parmela.....

There are times I sit and ponder where to be in line up for that VERY reason. I know some people that religously use tic-tacs, or stomp their feet (that one drives me loopey) or one I hate just as bad as noise is when the person behind you in line up horse keeps inching forward and they just stop and reset them instead of backing them up and pretty soon that exhibitor is in your horses butt :arg!

Well, the problem I see is at least two fold.

You guys are now speaking of RING ETIQUETTE! The person behind you should be aware of others around him/her. We have now changed the focus of this thread from HORSE to HANDLER.

HOWEVER, given the WAY you show (the primary reason for this topic) you are not really given a whole lot room to maneuver and reset your horses. When we show "on the rail" and have horses in front of us or behind us we stay very aware of each other. We can also pull the horse off the rail..sideways, whatever to keep from getting boxed in. Just imagine showing a full sized horse like Minis......good chance that some handlers would have their heads kicked off. NOthing like a free lobotomy.

If you show an Arab........and they go out and won't give their ears, or "stand up" correctly, I guarantee you that they are not going to do well. The "show" is a big part of things.......right or wrong.....big debate. But Minis using ears are a big problem as not many "want" to use them. But it makes it even worse when you have someone stomping around and making noise directly behind you. It is just not a good way of trying to present your horse at it's best advantage.

I have seen people say it would take longer to show individually. Maybe so. But if I was putting my money into showing a horse I would want to do it at the HORSES BEST ADVANTAGE. And it is really all about the horse here, isn't it?

As far as the gyrations go? We have some pretty good dancers ourselves.....but again it's about the show. I don't even look at the handler........I look at the horse because our handlers are not standing right on top of the animal. BIG DIFFERENCE........and I do think Miniatures can learn WHOA and show just like Erica said. I just don't think many people know how to achieve this nor want to take the time.

Sorry for the long post.....I hate long posts........nobody reads them anyway IMO......oh well..........

 

[Erica]

I read it Carol

 

[user 488]

Laughing here! Thanks! OH!

 

[susanne]

Parmela, I can so relate!! though in a slightly different way...

I'm short and dumpy, and my 38", very refined gelding makes me look like a sack of potatoes! But, I just figure that I make him look even more elegant in contrast to my frumpiness... I say use whatever you have to your horse's advantage, even if it means making them look even tinier.

This is a great discussion, whether or not you think things should change.

One thought....there is the intense show pose, there is total relaxation, letting it all hang out, and then there are numerous stages in-between, including a "parade-rest"-- relaxed, but still looking good. Asking for this when the judge is not specifically examining your horse might prevent a lot of show burnout, but as long as some show for the entire class, I doubt anyone would give it a try.

 

[MInx]

Outside opinion here, I don't show. Did how Great Danes for 9 years and won a lot, had a high winning bitch and some would look at us in confusion back East at the big show as they didn't know who Carl and I were! But they sure knew that dog!

Point taken! It's all about the animal. And personally I like to see a quiet deliberate way of showing..IF the animal is ready then it's ready and all the "dancing" as you do won't make it more ready..

Showing has a lot of social politics to it no matter what or where you show..just can't get away from it, and it's human of judges to give that well known owner or handler an extra look..mostly because they know that person only brings in high quality stock, (like anyone else wouldn't but trying to be fair here..

I personally really get very bored watching the shows with all the long long classes and extreme showing..

I would love to see an old fashioned show like we used to see, square the horse up or should I say stand the horse, get it's attention and present to the judge, staying on opposite side of the judge or perhaps at it head..NOT moving all over the place which to me looks silly..I think if the animal is good, conditioned and fit, and can MOVE it will almost show itself..mine did and like I said we had a whole den full of nice big trophies and championships which helped sell the whole three litters of puppies we had in nearly 11 yrs of Danes!

Now all this is JMHO and you can laugh at me being so old but I tell you it was nice to watch! Maxine

 

[Boinky]

I honestly don't see how it would TRULY make the class any longer. the judges still walk down the line and at least "pretend" to look at most of the horses.. it takes just as much time.. I think it would be better too. If i'm paying the money at least i know the judge saw my horse and i know when i should be showing that horse instead of watching for 3 different judges that are all over the ring and you never know when they'll be looking. I think it's hard on horses to set up that long. I'm not a big halter fan but i'd be much happier showing halter horses if i wasn't showing quite as hard the whole class and get frustrated when my horses "looses" it because he's bored.

 

[Champagne Valley Farm]

Haven't read all 4 pages but wanted to put in my .02

When I started training I vowed to not be one of those people who was crawling around on my hands and knees placing my horses feet. I spent each winter prior to show season teaching the horses to "square up", and I used that verbal as well. Come show season I would snap the lead and they would square up. I learned over the years to not show my horse the entire class. Watch for the judges and when they are near or obviously standing right in front of you then I'd "bait". I have to say I've only had one mare so far that shows on her own. If I mess with her in the slightest bit she stops showing (and makes me look REAL BAD! lol). All I have to do with her is snap her lead tell her square up or just snap my fingers and my work is done. She gives ears and neck if I put my hand up and that's it. Even my babies learn to square up without me having to place their legs. And after that they get a back scratch the entire class.

I remember a few years ago helping Lea out at a show out of state and was snickering to myself at many "pro" trainers on their hands and knees placing thier horses' feet

. Any horse I train learns to set up by either me saying it or just snapping my fingers. I don't feel the horse should be baited through the entire class at all. When the judge is near or judging you then go for it.

 

[Millstone Farm]

Has anyone ever watched a videotape of a halter class? You want some real entertainment (and a lesson in just HOW foolish someone who overshows looks), just hit fast forward.

I can't help but think that a lot of the excess movement and "dancing" is done deliberately to get the attention of the judge.