stall walker...

[Norah]

Hi ,

i have a new mare with a tragic history ...result ..stall walker : (

This is when she does her stall walking ...

at a show where she is in a large horse stall , even with her friend she will walk 1 wall of the stall : (

when its time to feed .... morning and evening ... she will walk along the wall where she knows I will come out and feed. She will walk about 3 meters , even if she has the room to walk a lot more. The stable is open , no doors , and she has a large turn out , about 1 acre, so she is no longer confined ... her stall walking seems to be related to feedings at home , but i cant just give an endless supply of food as she is the underdog , and the rest of the horses will become hippos .Do I make short stall walls in my stable and stall the rest so they dont get too much food , and leave her free with her donkey friend ,and just shower her in hay at night ? We have worked through her fear of being touched , so thats great .....they say stall walking is a sign of being unhappy with the environment , however the environment is great for her now ....Ulsers , dont make horses cribbers or stallwalklers , but ulcers can occure from the acid increse ...we have that handled ...I thought once she gained the weight and felt like she would no longer be starved it would go away ...hmmm, its not , she has space , companions , and food , shelter ...what am I missing ?

thanks for the help.

 

[Carolyn R]

I can't advise you on turnout situations but it ia my understanding that horses that may feel some discomfort or pain for various reasons may actually crib. If this has any truth to it, then ulcers could actually cause a horse to have a tendancy to crib.

 

[circlesinthesand]

In my opinion, once they develop these habits it takes a very very long time for them to go away if they ever do. Some never do. But there are things you can try. If it's only at feeding time, I would not stress much over it but for now I would make sure she eats separately and would probably feed her first for now so that she can get to that business vs causing ulcers.

I would also slowly work on how I feed her. don't just drop the feed and leave. Pay attention to this part of your day. The goal is to let her eat only when her feet are firmly planted in one spot, ears forward patiently waiting until you say it's ok. Start slowly, sometimes the first step will be a pause in their rush for food, or sometimes it's just the ears forward. Don't let her charge you or be pushy. She has to start realizing that calmness and patience gets her to her goal. Once you give the go ahead signal, don't just walk away, pet on her love her, don't leave. Mine is a shoulder drop, and a relaxation of my body. If you've ever watched a herd with a calm dominate horse in the bunch sorting out their feeding arrangements you'll see the same kind of behaviors. The stronger calmer horse will push the anxious ones off then eventually let them in with a certain stance, head lowered body relaxed, if the other gets too rowdy they'll have a go round then they have another go round. Next thing you know they're all eating calmly. If and when you do leave make sure she's not giving aggressive type behaviors, ears pinned, shoulder shoves, wringing tails, etc. Back her away from the feed and do it all again. This works well for ponies that are food aggressive too. It all comes from the same place. They're anxious over food. They need to learn learn that they must calm down and wait if they're going to get fed faster vs all their 'dancing' and aggression to get fed first.

Also, for the situation at shows... you might consider teaching her how to hobble (at home of course) and avoid over night shows for now. I'd take her to some local open shows, even if they don't offer mini classes, most open shows won't stop you from hauling in a horse for the day. Pay an entry fee for any halter class if they don't allow you on the grounds without being a competitor...nobody says you have to actually compete, scratch later in the day. Even if they don't refund scratches it's usually money well spent.

Hobbling will teach her some restraint with her feet that may carry over into the show situation and if necessary later you can tie and hobble her in the stall to help prevent the walking. Of course this requires more work at the show as well. She'll need to be taken out to stretch her legs etc. But for a day show, we teach all our young horses to hobble then we take them to day shows and tie them all day. if they paw, the hobbles go on and they stay tied with their feet hobbled. If they relax we untie them and go walk around and explore. The point is to teach them they aren't going anywhere unless they're relaxed so they might as well take a nap. Works wonders with anxious horses.

 

[Minimor]

Sounds like at home she is anxious for her food--I would feed her separately to ensure that she gets all she wants to eat; if she is the underdog she may be getting pushed out before she is finished eating, and so by next feeding time she is very hungry. I have one that stands and stares over the fence in the direction his hay comes from--he looks very anxious for that hay to show up, but fortunately he doesn't walk the fence, he just stands and waits. I have increased his hay and he's been watching less for his next feed..

My Hope will run the fence if I put her in a corral by herself--she is not hungry, she just doesn't like being by herself--she will run up and down the fence and totally ignore her feed--so, she is out with a group of mares & is happy there--no running the fence in that situation.

As for weaving in the stall--once they start that it's a very difficult thing to make them quit. I don't honestly know of any way to stop it, other than not stalling the horse. At a show you might tie her part of the time, or perhaps you could take some sort of a panel to divide the stall, and that way she wouldn't have room to really walk the stall--though I guess she could still do some weaving if she's so inclined--if a horse wants to weave he can bobble back and forth even in a small space.

 

[HGFarm]

This is a habit now and she may never get over it- just like windsuckers do what they do, etc... I hope that in time she will stop but her prior home was obviously not so caring.

 

[Norah]

thank you all , yes its obvious that she had a horrible prior life. Her definition is a stall walker , as she picks a 3 meter space and walks back and forth ... I feed her separatly , and even will put her in a stall with a very low door that she could actually jump out of , so she can feel and see the others , but can also eat alone. I was feeding her 4 to 5 meals a day , 3 of them separate . She is a very polite mare , very sweet and pacient. I can open the door to her tack room and she goes in and waits paciently for her meal : )

The thing that worries me is her hind feet ,they are flat as a pancake : o

I have put very heavy stall rubber mats where she sometimes paces ... she is obviously pivioting on those hind hooves here she is enjoying a private meal .) I have read many articles on this, and all say the same ... the horse expierenced stress at some point , usually the stress is from confinement . The cribbing , weaving or stall walking released endorphines , these are the bodys natural pain killers . She then became addicted to the endorphines , thus stall walking , cribbing weaving to release the endorphines ..... Ulsers dont cause stall walking or cribing ... isolation , stress causes the horse to escape the stress by releasing endorphines . I just hoped someone might have the miricle answer , but if the Universities of Equine Medacine doesnt have an answer I guess you are also right ... nothing can be done sadly ....

 

[Norah]

I can't advise you on turnout situations but it ia my understanding that horses that may feel some discomfort or pain for various reasons may actually crib. If this has any truth to it, then ulcers could actually cause a horse to have a tendancy to crib.

I read that cribing releases endorphines in the brain .... the horse becomes addicted to the endorphines and cribs to release them . Endorphines are a horses natural pain killer .... Stress can cause ulcers . cribbing is a sign of a stress that could have happened at some point , but can later be just a habbit to release endorphines ... like a nail biter ; ) Stress can raise the acid level in the horses stomach , thus causing pain , cribing can release the endorphines to relieve the pain... which came first the cribing or the ulcer ... neither did . the stress came first , then maybe an ulcer , then release of endorphines , then addiction to the endorphines ... this is why it is soo horrible to stall young horses where they can not see out to other horses , or have turn out at all in some cases . stalling horses for an extended period of time is a good way to destroy a horses mind , body , and soul : (

 

[disneyhorse]

Stall walking is not necessarily related to past abuse or neglect. Many perfectly well raised horses pick up this habit due to boredom, nervous personality, or even just an addictive personality (like cribbing can be hereditary in some cases.)

It is an extremely hard habit to reduce or break.

In some cases if the horse is injuring itself, tying for periods might be of help, using shoes to reduce hoof wear, using obstacles...

Good luck!

Andrea

 

[Carolyn R]

I read that cribing releases endorphines in the brain .... the horse becomes addicted to the endorphines and cribs to release them . Endorphines are a horses natural pain killer .... Stress can cause ulcers . cribbing is a sign of a stress that could have happened at some point , but can later be just a habbit to release endorphines ... like a nail biter ; ) Stress can raise the acid level in the horses stomach , thus causing pain , cribing can release the endorphines to relieve the pain... which came first the cribing or the ulcer ... neither did . the stress came first , then maybe an ulcer , then release of endorphines , then addiction to the endorphines ... this is why it is soo horrible to stall young horses where they can not see out to other horses , or have turn out at all in some cases . stalling horses for an extended period of time is a good way to destroy a horses mind , body , and soul : (

Yes, I should have elaborated that the stress causes ulcers and horses that have ulcers or pain in general will tend to crib. Thanks for the explanation on the endorphins to alleviate the pain.

 

[Norah]

actually boredom due to long amounts of time isolated is a form abuse ...yes I agree that this can be herediatary ... but there was a study done on horses stress level from being stalled vrs stalled with others near by , and stalled with lower pannels so they can see out , vrs the free horse , or a horse that had an option of a paddak attached ... the worst thing you can do to a horse other then beat it is isolate it : (

on a good note , I got up at 5 and fed before the horses woke up themselves . i did put peach in a separate stall and fed her a large quantity , and the others ate their meal near her. I locked them in for 3 hours , no signs of stall walking , and now they are out in a huge pasture with minimal grass... so we had freedom , 3 hours of stall time, and no stall walking . Maybe if we can continue this for a month and keep her stress free , she will kick the habbit .

 

[vvf]

I am reading this thread with great interest. as I also have a stall walker (extreme), and it is a major vice, I think it's very doubtful that I am going to break it. You are right I think, it is just like cribbing that releases endorphines in the brain.

I am trying to get ahold of Bonnie, to do a reading on him, but haven't heard back from her yet.

 

[Marty]

I also had one that did this and I have no idea why. I raised her from a two year old and she did not have any bad childhood that I am aware of. Not sure when it all began but when I noticed it, I removed her from the main barn and put her in the run in area so she was no longer stalled. Didn't work. I did however realize she would start in about 5:00 am approximately 2 hours prior to feed time which made me think she was anxious about her food. Finally I plunked a round bale of hay out there so she could eat till her heart's content and that seemed to do the trick. Also I think it could have been related to not being worked "used" anymore. My son had been working her in the round pen and doing obstacles and jumping with her which I think kept her mind good and body tired a bit. I think some horses just need a job to keep their mind straight. Good call on the ulcers. I never thought of that.

 

[Norah]

well , 9 pm , and still no walking ... she is officially a pasture horse , and it seems to agree with her . I think some horses are prone to this "vice" but i als think something has to trigger it . Endorphines dont just release themselves for no reason .... but i still have research to do on this . Maybe what is not stressful to one horse is very stressful to another ... Stalling may be just fine for one of your horses and like a "death sentance" to another ... I think what is important is realizing they are all as individual as you and I , should something like this come up its important to be creative in you way of making the horse feel less stressed .

 

[HGFarm]

YEAH! I was going to suggest no more stalls for her and see if that solved the problem. Awesome. Usually these habits are picked up from being confined all the time and boredom. And I agree that keeping horses in a stall all the time borderlines on abuse. Nature didnt intend for them to live that way.

I purchased an Appy mare many many years ago that had sat in a stall for a year and a half because the girl that had her didnt have interest in her any more. She was a 'wind sucker' from standing there 24/7. I took a chance and bought her, finished training her and she became my main horse, winning a top five in the state for gymkhana events and was my favorite all around horse for years. She competed in open shows, was a fantastic trail horse, worked cattle with her and she was pretty much game for any job that came along. As long as she was turned out and had a job, she didn't find the need to suck air on anything and she was happy. She was a wonderful mare.