Stallion/Gelding questions related to the procedure

[QuiltinMom]

We are new to horses and also new to minis. We have a mare that we have had for almost a week. We know that horses are herd animals so we decided to have more then one. Yesterday we went on a LONG road trip and purchased a stallion. Before you all tackle me about getting a stallion, we met him and spent quite a bit of time with him. He is a sweet gentle little guy. BEFORE WE EVEN DECIDED TO GET HIM WE HAD AN APPOINTMENT WITH A LOCAL VET TO GET HIM GELDED. We have no intentions of keeping him a stallion. We want our kids to be able to show him and more importantly we want them to be safe. The kids are not allowed to go in the pen without an adult, plus we are taking extra precautions with the mare. Since she was acting kind of crazy also.

We we got him home late last night and when he was near our mare he went crazy. Actually, the mare went crazy also. I don't know if she is in heat right now or not. I have no idea how to tell if she is. Our initial plan was to put them in stalls next to each other, but we quickly decided that was not going to work. We kept them apart last night and all day today. We have an appointment to get him gelded tomorrow morning.

My questions are:

1) How soon can he be put in the same pen as the mare? I read on-line (don't know if this is accurate or not) that a stallion that has been gelded can still impregnate a mare for up to a month following the gelding. Is this correct? Will we have to keep them apart that long?

2) How soon will he calm down after gelding? I know every horse is different and I know it will take a little time to get the natural breeding instinct out of his system, but will he settle down fairly quickly?

I do plan to ask the vet all of these questions, but I know some of you have hands on experience. We just need to make some changes to our dry lot/pen area if we need to keep them apart for a considerable amount of time.

Yes, I will get some photos taken and posted of him as soon as I can.

THANKS!!

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

They have 'one shot left' for about a month.

He might not ever calm down to be honest. Depends on the horse. Depends on the habits he had, depends on how much he was bred. Depends on his natural 'drive.' The little guy we had gelded was roughly 2 and never bred. Took a good 2-3 mos before he calmed down and stopped challenging my stud. The older they are and they're breeding they have done the less likely they are to completely forget about girls.

Also, he might just 'go crazy' because he is in a new place and is establishing himself as dominant. Don't write him off yet but do be careful.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

The rule of thumb with gelded horses (as far as I've been told and seen) is one month for every year of age to determine when they will be as settled as they are getting. I have a gelding here that was a breeding stallion from 2 years of age and was gelded just before I got him at 5. He is 2 years in and altho he has bonded with my boss mare you would not know how study he was when he first came here. I kept him apart from everyone for a full month then turned him in with the girls. No mares were in heat, they had been able to visit across a fence for about a week prior, and things settled pretty fast. I introduced the rest of the boys (all geldings) the next day but in a new pasture so the other newly gelded boy wouldn't be tempted to feel territorial. There was some discussion about who was going to be where in the pecking order but it didn't last long and the herd settled within a few days. Now I have 4 geldings and 2 mares that all live together and it is a peaceful, contented grouping. So go ahead, have him gelded, keep him apart for a month then give them a few days in close proximity (neighbouring stalls should be good) and then put them together in a safe pen. As long as they don't get too intense a little chasing or nipping isn't too harmful. If he was a quiet stallion, it is likely he will be a quiet gelding once he has a chance to settle in and the hormones dissipate.

 

[chandab]

Well, generally speaking new horses should be quarantined for at least 3 weeks, so if they bring something with them it doesn't spread to all the horses on the place. [usually if they bring anything it's a mild upper respiratory, but could also be something like strangles or similar. Depends on where they come from. Shipping stress can bring on an upper respiratory issue.] So quarantine time should coincide with gelding recovery time.

I've also heard one month per year of age to settle into more gelding attitude. Going into winter should help settle him, as well, since it's usually a non-breeding season, although some mares do cycle year round (just not too common).

When the vet castrates, he removes the testes thus removing sperm production, any sperm left in the accessory *** organs should be dead within like a week, they don't have that long of a life, but always better safe than sorry.

 

[Margo_C-T]

The age of the stallion and how much, if any, he has been used for breeding are two big factors in trying to predict how soon he will 'lose' his studdy' behavior...the older he is, the more he's been bred, the more LIKELY he will take longer to 'settle'is a GENERAL rule--but every horse is an individual, so...NO guarantees.Having a mature mare as his only 'company' could well mean it will be longer before he will settle down enough to put them in together with relative safety. The quarantine advice is right on target...and goes 'both ways', in that the mare 'might' even harbor something that could pass to the stallion...esp. after he is gelded, when hecould be more susceptible for a time,so it can benefit both horses. Be sure to see that the newly-gelded horse has a clean, roomy area to move about freely, ask about and follow aftercare instructions, and ask about vaccinations that BOTH horses should have/be updated on(a tetanus booster-or first of two, if there's no proof the horse has ever had an 'original' tetanus series, is pretty standard when doing a surgery...(did you get a list of each horse's health records from the previous owners...vaccinations received and when,dewormings and when, hoof care and when,any illnesses/injuries that occurred, when,how treated? If not, ask your vet about instituting a proper vaccination series for both horses.)

Be vigilant when you DO place these horses together; I have known plenty of geldings, even older/long-gelded, who can be incited into an erection, even into mounting/possibly penetrating, a mare, esp. when she is 'willing and ready'..and this is NOT a good idea; can lead to infection inside the mare.

 

[QuiltinMom]

THANK YOU for all of the replies. I did take him today and get him gelded. It is kind of a barbaric procedure but we got it done. He is in some pain still and so is not to uptight about anything right now.

The vet did say that they need to be kept apart for 30 days. That is how long he has the possibility of impregnating the mare. They didn't mention anything about a "one shot" deal.

We have not given up on him. He is extremely calm when he is not around a mare. I kind of wonder if he was just trying to establish some status on the pecking order when we brought him home. He is 5 years old and was only studded two times.

He was still whinnying to the mare a couple of times when they were in eyesight of each other. It was much more calm (probably because he is still in pain) and the mare seemed real calm too. They would just have a quick conversation then each return to grazing.

He does have a clean stall recover in. He doesn't have a lot of room to walk around (stall is about 8x12) but the vet advised to exercise him as much as possible to prevent swelling. I walked him 3 or 4 times today and at first he didn't want to walk very much but then he would start walking better after a little while. It was like he would feel better when he was out and walking. I will continue to walk him. It is also good bonding time with him. He did receive an antibiotic and tetanus shot today after the procedure. That is how the vet does it.

We do have detailed notes on each horse as far as their vaccinations, de-worming and last farrier visit. Actually, the boy we just brought home had seen the farrier earlier in the day when we purchased him. Those people were so kind and loving to him and wanted to make sure he was ready to go.

Again, thanks for all of the info. Hopefully, someone else can learn from this thread as well.

Now I need to figure out the AMHR and get a membership and get these horses transferred to our name. I did have them sign an AMHR gelding certificate and need to get that sent in and recorded also.

 

[jeanniecogan]

whata beautful boy. hope you and your family hve loads of fun with them.

 

[snowcapped]

Off topic, but your stall looks super cute! I am looking for ideas for stall fronts for my future barn and was wondering if you had any photos of the stall front. Thanks!

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Sounds like your family is off to a great start with the horses!

He is a handsome boy.

What does gelding cost there? Last time I had one done here, about 4 years ago, it was $80. I'm thinking I heard it may have doubled by now.

 

[QuiltinMom]

Off topic, but your stall looks super cute! I am looking for ideas for stall fronts for my future barn and was wondering if you had any photos of the stall front. Thanks!

Can't take credit for the idea. Found it on the internet somewhere to use conduit for the upright pieces. I thought it kind of fancied things up a bit. Of course, then I told my husband it had to have a curved top on it. He just loves it when I come up with these ideas!!!

 

[QuiltinMom]

Sounds like your family is off to a great start with the horses!

He is a handsome boy.

What does gelding cost there? Last time I had one done here, about 4 years ago, it was $80. I'm thinking I heard it may have doubled by now.

We are certainly having fun, but it does get kind of expensive, at least when you are first starting out.

No laughing on the cost of gelding. I called a local vet and they said $95 to geld him. I talked to a friend that has horses and she told me the place she took her mini to a couple of years ago. She said she paid about $25 at the time. I figured it would be around $40 or so. I called the place and they said it all depends on the weight of the horse and how much drugs they have to use to knock him out. I did have to drive about 40 miles, but it was worth the drive.

My cost was $22.96 and that included an antibiotic shot and also an tetanus shot that they do with the procedure. It was worth it to drive there even with the extra miles. I couldn't believe it.

 

[paintponylvr]

We are certainly having fun, but it does get kind of expensive, at least when you are first starting out.

No laughing on the cost of gelding. I called a local vet and they said $95 to geld him. I talked to a friend that has horses and she told me the place she took her mini to a couple of years ago. She said she paid about $25 at the time. I figured it would be around $40 or so. I called the place and they said it all depends on the weight of the horse and how much drugs they have to use to knock him out. I did have to drive about 40 miles, but it was worth the drive.

My cost was $22.96 and that included an antibiotic shot and also an tetanus shot that they do with the procedure. It was worth it to drive there even with the extra miles. I couldn't believe it.

Wow!! What ever vet clinic/hospital you took your little guy to - HANG ON TO IT! It cost more than that for most antibiotics. What did they give him - out of curiosity?

We don't live completely in the country - being between Ft Bragg (Fayetteville) and Raleigh, NC. Yet, it's a distance for vets to travel to our farm. Farm calls - not on an emergency- cost 3x+ more than what you paid for the whole gelding procedure. But with more than 2 horses, it's generally better for the vet to come to us (we currently have 2 full size horses, 1 xbred medium pony, 1 xbred smaller pony and 23 purebred Shetlands varying in size from 31" to 45" in height. The xbreds are 1/2 shetland). Then we also get our dogs and house/farm cats done, too (haven't found a vet that treats/checks out the chickens/ducks or the goats I've borrowed this past month). I've often put together a "clinic" - having other people bring their horses to our "farmette" (9 acres) and then every one gets a cut on the farm call - the $85 f/c is spit between customers (mine is still the most - usually having the most horses done, but a break is a break!). The prices for everything else is generally the same, though. Mini horses and ponies cost the same for vaccinations, Rabies, Coggins & blood work as big horses. Supplies, antibiotics, anesthesia will cost somewhat less simply because it's based on amount used. I don't pay much less for a castration or a teeth float/wolf tooth removal than someone does for a large horse. There isn't that much variance between vets either - just in how your vet and you get along and what is accepted. There are several vets who are unhappy with those of us that do some of our own "work" - others support the owners that have the ability to care for their own horses after procedures are done or general care.

I will probably be taking my two colts that need to be gelded now to a vet I used to lease property from and ride along with on vet calls (50 miles away). Some of her prices are higher - others are lower - but she supports what I can and am willing to do to care for our horses and that is PRICELESS. She/her clinic will also sell me products that I can't seem to get from our current vet - to include 'scrips for Ivermectin liquid (easier for me to give to large # of small horses & LOTS less expensive) and other products...

Generally, we have 2 - 4 major farm visits per year. That's for coggins tests & rabies vaccinations to be done. I get the forms & have them filled out before the vet arrives. I usually schedule teeth floats & castrations during one of those visits and plan for that. We didn't have any foals in 2014 and hadn't bred for any in 2015 BUT may be expecting a couple due to a young stallion managing to get himself out of where he was supposed to be. I do my own worming and vaccinations. I can set up an IV if needed (but would have to purchase the IV bags first - don't have them on hand), can "drench" for colic using syringes and epsom salt mix before calling a vet in if needed; treat & wrap wounds that need wrapped. I used to do some of our farrier work but now have someone else come do it (I'd rather hold 4 ponies for someone else w/ lots more knowledge, than take that same amount of time to do 1/2 of 1). I keep a set of nippers and a couple of rasps - can round up chipped edges and generally know how to balance a hoof - I also try to keep up with some of the newest advances in horse care (horse expos and clinics are a GOOD THING). Also, the internet can be educational. While I've been around horses for more than 35 years, I still take lessons or attend clinics to further my knowledge on horse care, health and training.

**********

So, what are you doing for his aftercare? There are as many different ways of doing that as there are vets/owners, too.

How's he doing?

**********

Your stalls are beautiful!! What a great job. Do you have any other pictures of your horses?

 

[hylights]

Welcome to the world of mini's!

It is so hard to find a mini gelding that I too brought home a stallion and had him gelded , boy I wish I had your pricing though! My bill was over $500, farm call alone is $85, and then he did have vaccs. I also had a week of antibiotics and my vet had me giving anti inflamatories for 5 days, but yes gelding does seem pretty barbaric, and my boyo was still in pain even with banamine.

It took Cody a week to start moving normally, he had swelling in scrotum and sheath for 10 days, he was turned out to move around all day which helped ( as the walking will) my other mini is a gelding , so my boys were able to stay together, but Cody studdy activity waned fairly quickly, we are now 5 months post surgery and even taking him to the training barn around other horses he's a good boy and no studdy behavior. I was told not to even go see him because he was an obnoxious stud, Ill tempered and couldn't be around other horses, while I found that a great exaggeration of him even when he first arrived I also had the Vet appt before he arrived and didn't wait to see, I knew I wanted a gelding. But I have a very sweet, reasonable, gelding who is now learning to lunge and long line and there are people who met him when he was shown as a stallion that said he would never be this calm, so truly give your boy a couple months to settle in to your place and routine, loose the hormones and I'm sure if he was sweet before he will be even sweeter in 2 months.

Your stalls are very cute, I'm going to look into that for my stall door, it is a large horse stall and the little boys can't see out, so I want to change the wood lower half of the door so they have a window.

Oh AMHR, to register your horses you have to join, when I called they told me if I join after oct 15th I can pay a few dollars more ( membership is $65, but I think $72 after the 15th for through 2015) and my membership would be good for 2014-2015, they said transfers are $25, and no extra to change from stallion to gelding just need the vet cert.

 

[secuono]

I got an estimate of $150 for just castration. Said it didn't matter if it was a mini or huge draft. That was just the castration, too. Not including farm call, any sedation and anything else he might need....Glad I got a mare instead.

Is that sand in the stalls? Sand colic is very possible if you let them eat off the ground.

 

[QuiltinMom]

Wow!! What ever vet clinic/hospital you took your little guy to - HANG ON TO IT! It cost more than that for most antibiotics. What did they give him - out of curiosity?

There are several vets who are unhappy with those of us that do some of our own "work" - others support the owners that have the ability to care for their own horses after procedures are done or general care.

I do my own worming and vaccinations. I can set up an IV if needed (but would have to purchase the IV bags first - don't have them on hand), can "drench" for colic using syringes and epsom salt mix before calling a vet in if needed; treat & wrap wounds that need wrapped. I used to do some of our farrier work but now have someone else come do it (I'd rather hold 4 ponies for someone else w/ lots more knowledge, than take that same amount of time to do 1/2 of 1). I keep a set of nippers and a couple of rasps - can round up chipped edges and generally know how to balance a hoof - I also try to keep up with some of the newest advances in horse care (horse expos and clinics are a GOOD THING). Also, the internet can be educational. While I've been around horses for more than 35 years, I still take lessons or attend clinics to further my knowledge on horse care, health and training.
**********

So, what are you doing for his aftercare? There are as many different ways of doing that as there are vets/owners, too.

How's he doing?

**********

Your stalls are beautiful!! What a great job. Do you have any other pictures of your horses?

Antibiotic is listed as: Benzapen (sorry, new to all of this and I think that one is the antibiotic).

I am hoping that the vet we choose is one that is fine with us doing some of our own work. When I called and spoke with them prior to us getting any horses they said that "most people" do their own vaccinations. I translate that to the fact that they are OK with it.

I would love to have the skills you have in caring for your horses. Maybe some day.

As for aftercare, it isn't much. I really thought we would have to clean the wound or at least apply some antibiotic cream, but they said we didn't need to do anything with the wound. They said the best thing for him was to exercise him, walk him, walk him, walk him. They said that will help keep the swelling down. At first you could tell he wasn't too excited about walking, but it has improved a bunch. Overall, he is doing great. He still has some drainage, but you can tell he is feeling better. He is such a little angle. My 7 year old special needs daughter (that only weighs 37lbs) can walk him around the yard and lead him and he just follows her with out any hesitation. I think he has trouble understanding her commands (she has problems with her speech), but he tries to read her body language (I think, somehow he just knows and follows her). I think the horses will eventually know how to understand what she is telling them. I think they are intuitive that way (then again, I am new to horses, so maybe that is a myth). Of course, our mare follows her around pretty good too. The mare tends to want to stop and eat grass, but that is something we are trying to not allow. They get a quick "Quit" command with a pull up on the lead rope to discourage eating grass while on the lead rope. Our gelding already has that figured out and barely tries to get a bite, our mare on the other hand tries every time there is a little slack in the lead rope. It will take time, but we will get there.

Oh, and is this where I mention we brought home a 4 month old filly today? Yes, horse #3 has arrived. This is all we have plans for now. We had actually committed to purchasing her prior to getting our other two. She is already halter broke and leads very well on the lead rope. She does tend to want to lean in and crowd you while walking her, but she is just a snuggle bug. We will teach her in time that she needs to leave a little room between us.

 

[QuiltinMom]

Is that sand in the stalls? Sand colic is very possible if you let them eat off the ground.

Nope, not sand. We have some bedding in each of the stalls. Some of it is "large" flake and some of it is "mini" flake. We have quickly learned that we don't like the "large" flake as it doesn't allow you to sift through and only scoop out the poop. We had a friend recommend using the mini flakes and we like them much better. They are like sawdust if you ask me.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

A stallion can only be fertile for the life of the sperm that is outside the testicles at time of castration- ie 48 hours. After that.....well, I am afraid it is just erring on the safe side. You cannot, however, expect a stallion to stop being a stallion over night and he could hurt himself badly (or the mare) if you put them together too soon. I had an eleven year old stallion gelded and it took him a year to forget what he was for. I had a three year old gelded and he did not actually breed a mare until six months AFTER he was gelded, never having bred a mare when entire (accident, btw, not meant o have been in the field with the mares!) You also cannot expect a stallion to behave as a gelding because he has been gelded and I am sorry but you are taking a real risk with your daughter's safety allowing her to handle him like this. If once he hears or smells the mare he will be off, he could drag your daughter or inadvertently hurt her. Once he is feeling better that is almost bound to happen- for some time (as others have said each horse is different) he will still be in every way but one, a stallion. PLEASE be very, very careful. I would not have a child handling the quietest, most sane, stallion, even if I had bred it and raised it, let alone just bought it.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

As to after care- I have never walked a gelded horse, I just leave them out and let them do what they want. Imagine feeling like death warmed up and someone drags you out of bed and insists you go for a nice walk! Far better to leave the animal out on good grass and let them make up their own mind what they do. Leaving them in a stall encourages swelling and stiffness.

 

[QuiltinMom]

Oh AMHR, to register your horses you have to join, when I called they told me if I join after oct 15th I can pay a few dollars more ( membership is $65, but I think $72 after the 15th for through 2015) and my membership would be good for 2014-2015, they said transfers are $25, and no extra to change from stallion to gelding just need the vet cert.

THANKS for the info on AMHR. I have printed off the membership forms and have them filled out, but I will wait until after October 15th to take advantage of the discount. It is only a couple of weeks away, so no need to rush. I would not have been happy if I sent it in now and had to pay a full membership for 2014 and then renew in January for another year. I wondered if everyone renewed at the same time or if it just ran for a year from the date you submit your registration.

He is actually double registered, with AMHA also and I think we are going to drop that registration as there are not really any sanctioned shows in our area that I know of. Primarily it is AMHR. Any thoughts on this? Are we being foolish to let it lapse?

 

[QuiltinMom]

A stallion can only be fertile for the life of the sperm that is outside the testicles at time of castration- ie 48 hours. After that.....well, I am afraid it is just erring on the safe side. You cannot, however, expect a stallion to stop being a stallion over night and he could hurt himself badly (or the mare) if you put them together too soon. I had an eleven year old stallion gelded and it took him a year to forget what he was for. I had a three year old gelded and he did not actually breed a mare until six months AFTER he was gelded, never having bred a mare when entire (accident, btw, not meant o have been in the field with the mares!) You also cannot expect a stallion to behave as a gelding because he has been gelded and I am sorry but you are taking a real risk with your daughter's safety allowing her to handle him like this. If once he hears or smells the mare he will be off, he could drag your daughter or inadvertently hurt her. Once he is feeling better that is almost bound to happen- for some time (as others have said each horse is different) he will still be in every way but one, a stallion. PLEASE be very, very careful. I would not have a child handling the quietest, most sane, stallion, even if I had bred it and raised it, let alone just bought it.

I am fine with erring on the side of caution and keeping them apart for 30 days.

As so many people have said in the threads on this forum. Each horse is different. This little guy that we got was extremely gentle before we got him. Now, let me say, we are new to horses and are learning a lot and still have so much to learn. I feel confident in this little guy. He is very, very calm. If I had any concern whatsoever of my kids being injured we would not have chosen him and they certainly would not be allowed to handle him. This little guy is an angel. He walks so nice on lead and listens very well. I have not seen even one incident of concern since we brought him home. Except for when he was first introduced to our mare whom I think was in cycle at the time. He was in a strange place with strange people and being introduced to a mare (in the next stall) in the middle of the night. I would be a fool to not expect some sort of reaction out of him.

He talks to the mare once in a while and even talks to some full size mares further down the road when they talk to him. He only talks enough to be polite and acknowledge them and then goes back to what he was doing. No further reaction on his part. We are completely aware that our kids could be injured completely on accident from the horses. Any of them, stallion, mare or filly. A horse is a strong animal and can injure someone with out intending to. We are there watching whenever our kids are with the horses. They are not allowed in the stalls or the dry lots with the horses unless one of us is there with them. They are not walking any of them without adult supervision either. I feel comfortable with the horses we have chosen. Yes, I am an inexperienced horse person, but I am an over protective mother.

As to after care- I have never walked a gelded horse, I just leave them out and let them do what they want. Imagine feeling like death warmed up and someone drags you out of bed and insists you go for a nice walk! Far better to leave the animal out on good grass and let them make up their own mind what they do. Leaving them in a stall encourages swelling and stiffness.

All of our horses are haltered up each morning and evening and walked to the dry lot and back to their stalls. That way they are being handled daily by us. The vet that did his gelding advised me to walk him and keep him moving to prevent swelling. Sometimes after surgery we as humans have to do things we don't really want to do (physical therapy, getting up and walking the halls), but in the long run it is what is best for us. It might not feel good at the time, but there is a reason for it. I also see that you are in England and I know first hand that medical advice differs from country to country. My Dad was born and raised in England and you all have a different way of doing things, not better, not worse, just a different approach. I need to follow the advice of my local vet.

I appreciate your concern. You obviously have a lot more experience than I do and I have a lot of respect for your input.